Pager Explosions Injure Thousands in Lebanon and Syria - Several Killed

[rjs330]

I don't "like" anyone dying but in times of war these things occur. However if Hamas had not attacked Israel on 10/7 and if Hezbollah would end its constant missile attacks, ALL these people would still be alive! Do YOU condemn what Hamas and Hezbollah are doing?

I find it interesting that there seems te a thread every time Israel does something that kills someone but we get nothing from the left whenever an Arabic terrorist organization kills some Isrealis. In fact often defend it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

At least Israel is trying to only target terrorists but they hide within civilian populations and use them as human shields. They are cowards. On the other hand, Hamas ONLY targeted innocent civilians on 10/7 and Hezbollah fires rockets almost daily at ONLY civilian targets.

Sabotaging devices that they're likely to have on them when around other people isn't really all that "targeted".

Sabotaging a devices that you know will be at one of their HQs or training facilities would be more targeted. Hezbollah (while similar in their goals compared to Hamas) doesn't quite present the same set of challenges as Hamas with regards to the difficulty in avoiding civilian casualties.

Amnesty International investigated Israeli complaints of the use of human shields by Hezbollah, but found no evidence for the claims. They concluded that "it [was] not apparent that civilians were present and used as 'human shields'."[17] A statement issued by Human Rights Watch supported Amnesty's conclusion and "found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack." [18]

Human Rights Watch stated that "while it may be unlawful... to place forces, weapons and ammunition within or near densely populated areas, it is only shielding when there is a specific intent to use the civilians to deter an attack."[19]


Hezbollah is a much bigger organization, that has bases and training facilities that are not embedded among civilian populations (unlike Hamas)

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Sabotaging devices that they're likely to have on them when around other people isn't really all that "targeted".

Amnesty International investigated Israeli complaints of the use of human shields by Hezbollah, but found no evidence for the claims. They concluded that "it [was] not apparent that civilians were present and used as 'human shields'."[17] A statement issued by Human Rights Watch supported Amnesty's conclusion and "found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack." [18]

Human Rights Watch stated that "while it may be unlawful... to place forces, weapons and ammunition within or near densely populated areas, it is only shielding when there is a specific intent to use the civilians to deter an attack."[19]

Hezbollah is a much bigger organization, that has bases and training facilities that are not embedded among civilian populations (unlike Hamas).

Sure it is. They were HEZBOLLAH TERRORIST pagers...did you miss that? AI and HRW statements are silly, it is a very well known fact they use civilians as human shields, it is not even debatable.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I condemn all violence by Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah and any other actor in the region. Do you condemn the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza by Israel where the total death toll from all causes (inc burial under rubble, starvation, disease, lack of health provision, bad water etc) is estimated at 186,000 - that's more than 150X the October 7 death toll. Do you think the life of one Israeli is worth more than 150X the life of a Palestinian - and the killing didn't start on October 7.

Note that, given you have asked me to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah (which I have just done), if you then fail to condemn Israel then your credibility is destroyed. Israel has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa.

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000

View attachment 354779

Hamas started a war. I condemn Hamas. My cred is just fine. Hamas MUST be destroyed. Would you condemn Russia for attacking the Nazis because the Nazis attacked Russia? There were casualties on both sides. BTW, not that it matters, but those numbers are WAY inflated.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If this is true, as a military defensive action by Israel I see far less problem with this attack compared to the purposeful and deliberate slaughter of toddlers by the IDF in Gaza.

However, Israel has caused people to think twice when dealing with the ethnic "Jews" of Revelation 2:9. This will cause a massive rise in what people refer to as "antisemitism". Most will think twice about dealing with an ethnic "Jew" for electronics - especially in the Muslim world. I don't see this necessarily affecting the bottom line of B&H anytime soon.

I also think this will hurt U.S. and European electronics firms when it comes to production. No one will trust that the electronics aren't going to be designed to backfire. on the user.

There is no "deliberate slaughter of toddlers by the IDF in Gaza". You are drinking the Kool-aid. So what exactly do you mean by ethnic "Jews"...

 

[Vanellus]

Hamas started a war. I condemn Hamas. My cred is just fine. Hamas MUST be destroyed. Would you condemn Russia for attacking the Nazis because the Nazis attacked Russia? There were casualties on both sides. BTW, not that it matters, but those numbers are WAY inflated.

This started decades ago as you well know. So you condemn Hamas for killing approx 1000 people bur fail to condemn Israel who have killed FAR MORE people = zero credibility.

 

[wing2000]

I'm sure the U.S., Britain, France, Germany, and many others could have done the same.

Fair point. By now, I don't think any one is doubting the Israelis are behind this operation.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This started decades ago as you well know. So you condemn Hamas for killing approx 1000 people bur fail to condemn Israel who have killed FAR MORE people = zero credibility.

Is that all it is to you...all about numbers? You are the one with no credibility here. Keep drinking the Kool-aid. It actually started 1000s of years ago...Jews from Jakob and Arabs from Ishmael...Jews and Arabs are cousins. The Arabs descended from Ishmael would be “a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers” (Genesis 16:12)

 

[MartyF]

There is no "deliberate slaughter of toddlers by the IDF in Gaza". You are drinking the Kool-aid.

"Definitively," said Dr. Perlmutter. "I have two children that I have photographs of that were shot so perfectly in the chest, I couldn't put my stethoscope over their heart more accurately, and directly on the side of the head, in the same child. No toddler gets shot twice by mistake by the 'world's best sniper.' And they're dead-center shots."

Children of Gaza

Doctors and aid workers describe desperate conditions in the Gaza Strip since Israel responded to Hamas' attack last October, and their efforts to rescue children, the most vulnerable victims of violence.

www.cbsnews.com

So says the Ethnic Jewish Doctor.

So what exactly do you mean by ethnic "Jews"...

The followers of Jesus are the Sons of Abraham and the beneficiaries of his blessing. Galatians 3:29

"Jews" who curse Jesus as most Israelis do are not the Sons of Abraham. Revelation 2:9 John 8:44

 

[Carl Emerson]

When the pagers were remotely exploded the Israelis doing the exploding had no way of knowing who had them or who was close by.

I note that you don't concede that Israel has bombarded Lebanon and Syria as well as vice versa.

Yes they did - they were first known to be supplied as military kit.

Israel has responded to aggressive missile attacks from Lebanon - 7500 rockets fired at civilian populations since Oct 7

 

[durangodawood]

I am way more pro Israel than pro Israel's enemies.

But I have to say, there's something about these personal pocket bombs that gives me a rather uneasy feeling. I haven't quite articulated it for myself yet. It just strikes against some moral intuition or other.

 

[Vanellus]

Is that all it is to you...all about numbers? You are the one with no credibility here. Keep drinking the Kool-aid. It actually started 1000s of years ago...Jews from Jakob and Arabs from Ishmael...Jews and Arabs are cousins. The Arabs descended from Ishmael would be “a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers” (Genesis 16:12)

Each "number" represents a precious human life. If you disregard the numbers you are disregarding the importance of each human life. Do you think the life of a Palestinian has the same value as the life of an Israeli? Apparently you do not. Abraham was not the original inhabitant of the Promised Land. There were already people living there before he turned up.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the attack by Hamas and the Israeli invasion in October, 2023, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, as reported by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.1 The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services,2 the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry,3 which found claims of data fabrication implausible.4

Israeli Intelligence Has Deemed Hamas-Run Health Ministry's Death Toll Figures Generally Accurate

Israeli intelligence services have studied civilian casualty figures released by the Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza and concluded the figures were generally accurate, despite earlier public claims by U.S. and Israeli officials that the ministry’s statistics are manipulated. According to a story in Mekomit by Yuval Avraham, who last year broke news about the Israeli military’s use of AI for targeting purposes, the numbers were accepted for inclusion in briefings to senior Israeli officials after intelligence services conducted operations and analysis to monitor the health ministry’s information collection methods and its internal communications and determined the statistics were credible. An Israeli intelligence official confirmed the Israeli government’s use of the Gaza ministry numbers to VICE News, while two officials from European intelligence services said they were widely used in official briefings internationally.

All you provide is groundless assertion.

 

[Vanellus]

Yes they did - they were first known to be supplied as military kit.

Israel has responded to aggressive missile attacks from Lebanon - 7500 rockets fired at civilian populations since Oct 7

Which does not guarantee who is using them when they are exploded or who is close by.

And you are ignoring the evidence of the NYT article. Why not state the figures for the Israeli bombardments of Lebanon and Syria as well? The fact that you do not shows your bias.

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) - Wikipedia

On 8 October 2023, Hezbollah started firing guided rockets and artillery shells at Israeli positions in the occupied Shebaa Farms, which it said was in solidarity with Palestinians following the Hamas attack on Israel that took place a day earlier.[56][57][58] Israel retaliated by launching drone strikes and artillery shells at Hezbollah positions near Lebanon's boundary with the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights.

In northern Israel, the ongoing conflict has forced approximately 96,000 individuals to leave their homes,[55] while in Lebanon, approximately 111,940 individuals have been displaced,

 

[Vambram]

Each "number" represents a precious human life. If you disregard the numbers you are disregarding the importance of each human life. Do you think the life of a Palestinian has the same value as the life of an Israeli? Apparently you do not. Abraham was not the original inhabitant of the Promised Land. There were already people living there before he turned up.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext


Israeli Intelligence Has Deemed Hamas-Run Health Ministry's Death Toll Figures Generally Accurate


All you provide is groundless assertion.

Why should I mourn over the deaths of members of the Hezbollah, which has been attacking Israel for multiple decades?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Which does not guarantee who is using them when they are exploded or who is close by.

And you are ignoring the evidence of the NYT article. Why not state the figures for the Israeli bombardments of Lebanon and Syria as well? The fact that you do not shows your bias.

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) - Wikipedia

If bias means having a strong opinion one way - why would I deny that ? You are hardly neutral !

 

[Hazelelponi]

There is no "deliberate slaughter of toddlers by the IDF in Gaza". You are drinking the Kool-aid. So what exactly do you mean by ethnic "Jews"...

I'm curious what "dealing with" means...

I'd like more light shed on that.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If this is true, as a military defensive action by Israel I see far less problem with this attack compared to the purposeful and deliberate slaughter of toddlers by the IDF in Gaza.

However, Israel has caused people to think twice when dealing with the ethnic "Jews" of Revelation 2:9. This will cause a massive rise in what people refer to as "antisemitism". Most will think twice about dealing with an ethnic "Jew" for electronics - especially in the Muslim world. I don't see this necessarily affecting the bottom line of B&H anytime soon.

I also think this will hurt U.S. and European electronics firms when it comes to production. No one will trust that the electronics aren't going to be designed to backfire. on the user.

Well you're in luck because the US government has fairly well ended anything being manufactured in the US by discouraging policies or ending policies which encourage it. I'm sure it's similar across Europe.

Everything is made in China now, the US has no real manufacturing left.

So when things start blowing up it's because of China.

What do you mean "dealing with" the ethnic Jews? I'm curious about this phrasing...

How do you expect ethnic Jews to be dealt with and how are you tying that idea to Scripture?

We can hop over to General Theology or the Eschatology forum if you're a Christian if you like unless you're just making veiled threats on a Christian forum for fun. But if your a Christian we should have a forum discussion.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Each "number" represents a precious human life. If you disregard the numbers you are disregarding the importance of each human life. Do you think the life of a Palestinian has the same value as the life of an Israeli? Apparently you do not. Abraham was not the original inhabitant of the Promised Land. There were already people living there before he turned up.

Well no, that is what YOU are doing. What flavor of Kool-aid is you favorite? I guess what I said went right over your head lol! ABRAHAM was the father of both Jews AND Arabs...

 

[rjs330]

While.this was not a perfect targeted attack, it was pretty close. It's pretty impossible to get so targeted that civilians are never in danger.

When trying to target terrorists who live among civilians. While tragic that civilians are killed at times NONE of this would be happening if the terrorists would leave Israel alone. This is all the terrorists fault.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

While.this was not a perfect targeted attack, it was pretty close. It's pretty impossible to get so targeted that civilians are never in danger.

When trying to target terrorists who live among civilians. While tragic that civilians are killed at times NONE of this would be happening if the terrorists would leave Israel alone. This is all the terrorists fault.

THIS! "NONE of this would be happening if the terrorists would leave Israel alone. This is all the terrorists fault."