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The Pope Denies John 14:6.

jas3

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Their were some Popes who were FAR worse than him ;)
In terms of personal morality, yes, but in terms of doctrine, I can't agree. No other pope in history, to my knowledge, has taught that all religions are paths to God, that God wills the plurality of religions, that Martin Luther didn't err in his doctrine of justification, etc.

It's still not a settled matter among Catholic theologians whether it's possible for a pope to hold and teach a heretical belief, but with Pope Francis, at this point I don't know how a Catholic could answer in the negative and not be a sedevacantist.
 
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RileyG

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In terms of personal morality, yes, but in terms of doctrine, I can't agree. No other pope in history, to my knowledge, has taught that all religions are paths to God, that God wills the plurality of religions, that Martin Luther didn't err in his doctrine of justification, etc.

It's still not a settled matter among Catholic theologians whether it's possible for a pope to hold and teach a heretical belief, but with Pope Francis, at this point I don't know how a Catholic could answer in the negative and not be a sedevacantist.
He has never spoken from the Chair, if that's what you meant by a Pope never teaching a heretical belief.
 
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RileyG

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Offline4Better.

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Let's not get into a debate on the most cryptic and mysterious book of the Bible here, shall we?
There is a reason why most of my devotionals are not in Revelation, as that is the most confusing book of the entire Bible. Revelation is up there with Daniel and Zechariah in terms of how cryptic these books are.
 
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jas3

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He has never spoken from the Chair, if that's what you meant by a Pope never teaching a heretical belief.
No, I'm talking about in his general office. He can still teach without making a Vatican-I-style infallible declaration.
 
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RileyG

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There is a reason why most of my devotionals are not in Revelation, as that is the most confusing book of the entire Bible. Revelation is up there with Daniel and Zechariah in terms of how cryptic these books are.
It's apocalyptic, same with Daniel. ;)
 
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RileyG

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No, I'm talking about in his general office. He can still teach without making a Vatican-I-style infallible declaration.
Oh! Gotcha ;)

He's old and not in the best of health. He may have made a slip up.

It happens.
 
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Offline4Better.

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It's apocalyptic, same with Daniel. ;)
Yep. Apocalyptic books of the Bible are the most confusing, no wonder why I try to stay away from those books. Daniel 12:4 is my favorite verse from Daniel, as it speaks about how knowledge shall increase. Reminds me of the information age that we are living in now.
 
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Clare73

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Nice try. Protestants have been saying that for hundreds years. Their were some Popes who were FAR worse than him ;)
All of which would help me see why some think they could have been the anit-Christ.
 
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RileyG

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All of which would help me see why some think they could have been the anit-Christ.
Fair enough.

I disagree, obviously.

The Church and Pope as a whole teach Christ is Lord. Period.
 
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RileyG

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Lord is not the same thing as Jn 14:6, which he is denying.
It was apparently taken out of context per other sources. He didn’t deny that verse.
 
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chevyontheriver

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If Jesus said he is the ONLY WAY to the Father, but the Pope says all religions lead to God, then the Pope is denying the Bible and centuries at least of Christian theology.
Sure looks like it. And I'm not going to waste any effort trying to explain that one away. It's his personal opinion and happily I don't have to share it or endorse it or defend it or anything. A poorly catechized old man comes up with some alien ideas. Facepalm.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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If Jesus said he is the ONLY WAY to the Father, but the Pope says all religions lead to God, then the Pope is denying the Bible and centuries at least of Christian theology.
Is Jesus the same thing as the bible?
 
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Clare73

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It was apparently taken out of context per other sources. He didn’t deny that verse.
He said "All religions are a path to God."

Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father (God) except through me." (Jn 14:6)
 
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JSRG

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Priest signing at vatican mass;


It's obvious the person who made that video knows little to no Latin, not only because of their incorrect "Catholic Church praising Lucifer" claim but also because the translations they offer of the applicable Latin phrases aren't very good and were probably done by some kind of low quality automated translation.

This is not "praising Lucifer". This is praising Jesus. While in modern English parlance "lucifer" is largely used only in reference to Satan, it had more meanings in Latin. The important one in this case is that "lucifer" in Latin is a term that refers to the morning star--that is, the planet Venus. Any Latin dictionary will confirm this, that lucifer means morning star. Now, the Bible explicitly refers to Jesus as the morning star in Revelation 22:16, and this is drawing upon that.

Now, lucifer in Latin does have some other meanings. Pertinent for our purposes is its usage to refer to the devil, which developed later on through an interpretation that Isaiah 14:12 was referring to the devil (the Latin translated its mention of the morning star as lucifer). While some have disputed the idea this referred in any way to the devil, at any rate it eventually gave rise to a new meaning of lucifer as a term for the devil, and that is the one that is dominant in English. However, in Latin, the term lucifer continued to also be used as a term for morning star, just as it was before.

That is what is being used here; the usage of lucifer in this Latin prayer is not in reference to the devil, but the morning star (Jesus). What the video shows is from the Exsultet/Exultet, a prayer used in Easter vigil masses. Here is the Latin of the applicable portion:

Flammas eius lúcifer matutínus invéniat:
ille, inquam, lúcifer, qui nescit occásum.
Christus Fílius tuus,
qui, regréssus ab ínferis, humáno géneri serénus illúxit,
et tecum vivit et regnat in sæcula sæculórum.

The version of this used in English masses is this:

May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star:
the one Morning Star who never sets,
Christ your Son,
who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity,
and lives and reigns for ever and ever.

Probably due to trying to make it sound good in English the translation is a little loose, but the general meaning of the lines is retained. One notices the obvious fact that lucifer is rendered as morning star... because that's what it means.

Almost as if to make absolutely sure there wouldn't be misunderstanding, the first line even applied the adjective matutinus (morning) to lucifer. This is somewhat redundant because lucifer by itself means "morning star", but it makes it even more clear that's the meaning. And then the third line, Christus Filius tuus/Christ your Son (the prayer is addressed to God and therefore it is simply saying Jesus is God's son), even more clearly identifies that the morning star being referred to is Jesus, again because this is invoking Revelation's reference to Jesus being the morning star. Even if someone missed the fact it's referencing Revelation 22:16, any knowledge of Latin makes it clear that this is not in any way a reference to Lucifer as a devil.

it should be noted that this prayer is also found in some Anglican, Lutheran, and Methodist churches (Wikipedia offers some examples here). They also use morning star in English:

Anglican:
Holy Father, accept our evening sacrifice, the offering of this candle in your honor. May it shine continually to drive away all darkness. May Christ, the Morning Star who knows no setting, find it ever burning—he who gives his light to all creation, and who lives and reigns for ever and ever."

Lutheran:
Holy Father, Accept now the evening sacrifices of our thanksgiving and praise. Let Christ, the true light and morning star, shine in our hearts, He who gives light to all creation, Who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, One God, now and forever.

Methodist:
May the Morning Star, which never sets, find this flame still burning. Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all creation, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever."

So the claim made by your video that they were praising Lucifer (the devil) is simply wrong. It was praising Jesus and referring to Jesus as the morning star, which the Bible itself does.
 
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RileyG

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He said "All religions are a path to God."

Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father (God) except through me." (Jn 14:6)
If you read the article on Catholic sources, that’s not completely what he said.
 
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Dan Perez

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Lord is not the same thing as Jn 14:6, which he is denying.
And here is what John 14:6 really means !!

# 1 Jesus // Iesous , is in the Greek Nominative Case , meaning the subject and in the Greek Singular .

# 2 Saith // LEGO , is in the Present Tense , Active Voice in the Indicative Mood , also in the Singular

# 3 Unto Him // AUTOS , is a Personal Possessive Pronoun , in the Dative Case , also in the Singular

# 4 I // EGO , is also is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , Nominative Case , in the Singular

# 5 AM // EIMI , in the Present Tense , Indicative Mood , meaning you better believe it , in the Singular

# 6 THE // HO is a Definite Article Pronoun , that is pointing to the next Greek word , meaning only one WAY .

# 7 WAY // HODOS , also in the Nominative Case , in the Singular .

# 8 TRUTH // ALETHEIA in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the Singular

# 9 AND THE // another DEFINITE ARTICLE PRONOUN , in the Singular

# 10 LIFE // ZOE , in the Nominative Case , in the Singular

# 11 NO MAN // OUDEIS , in the Nominative Case , also in the Singular

# 12 COMETH // ERCHOMAI , in the Present Tense , in the Middle or in the Passive Voice , in the Singular

# 13 UNTO // PROS , is a Preposition

# 14 THE // HO , a DIFINITE ARTICLE PRONOUN , Accusative Case , in the Singular

# 15 FATHER // PATER , in the Accusative Case , in the Singular

# 16 BUT // ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , means that NO ONE can go directly EVERRRRRRRRRR , means NEVER

EVER RRRR bypass .

# 17 BYPASS , ME //EMOU , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , in the Genitive Case , in the Singular .

Please notice that all these Greek words ARE IN THE GREEK , SINGULAR and not in the Greek Plural

dan p
 
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chevyontheriver

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Priest signing at vatican mass;

This is the best example ever of SDA anti-Catholic propaganda. It's really rich that you quote something from a language you don't understand, trusting so well your religious peers who don't understand it either. What you have linked to is the blessing of the Easter candle, which has nothing at all to do with Lucifer and everything to do with ... lighting a candle. You have labored to come up with something convincingly anti-Catholic but you have instead produced (maybe layed like a chicken) an Exsultet.

Note that I 'loved' your comment as it is the best ever anti-Catholic post I have seen this year.



You can double down on your claim that Catholics worship Lucifer and this video is proof of it ...
OR
You can retract your embarrassing post and save yourself the humiliation.

I expect you to double down. And if you do, considering I have shown you to have totally misunderstood what you posted, maybe more thoughtful people will dismiss you as what you appear to be, a red hot flaming anti-Catholic that will stoop as low as he or she needs to so as to provide grist for your mill. Please prove me wrong.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Yep. Apocalyptic books of the Bible are the most confusing, no wonder why I try to stay away from those books. Daniel 12:4 is my favorite verse from Daniel, as it speaks about how knowledge shall increase. Reminds me of the information age that we are living in now.
Do not forget the blessing that is promised if you read the book of revelation, it will all become clearer as we are close to the end. It is worth reading and trying to understand what we can.

blessings.
 
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