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ABC Fact Checking on the Harris-Trump Debate on September 10, 2024

dzheremi

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She also claimed that Trump supported Project 2025, which he has denied for a couple of months now. He was right that
the accusation was brought by the democrats.

It should be clear enough to everyone now that Trump claiming something is not evidence of the truth of that claim. See, e.g., the "stealing" of the 2020 election, babies being legally 'decided on' vis-a-vis abortion/murder after birth in the USA, or most recently, the bizarre claim that immigrants are eating people's pets in Springfield, IL.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I can believe that he'd never heard of the formal plan prior to that, but that doesn't mean he's not amenable to or even supportive of the positions within it.
The Project 2025 document is 900 pages long. I doubt you nor Trump read it.

BTW, which items in the document that Trump supposedly supports which you don't agree with?
 
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JimR-OCDS

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It should be clear enough to everyone now that Trump claiming something is not evidence of the truth of that claim. See, e.g., the "stealing" of the 2020 election, babies being legally 'decided on' vis-a-vis abortion/murder after birth in the USA, or most recently, the bizarre claim that immigrants are eating people's pets in Springfield, IL.
BTW, Trump never said post birth abortions were being performed, only that the former governor
of VA had stated that it was possible for it to become legal. The moderator David Muir stated that
no post birth abortions were ever performed as if Trump had said they were.
 
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iluvatar5150

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The Project 2025 document is 900 pages long. I doubt your nor Trump read it.

No, I haven't read it, nor have I claimed to, but that's besides the point. I'm trying to make a distinction between the individual ideas and the collection of ideas labeled "Project 2025." Given the significant number of former Trump administration people who were involved in crafting the project (and likely would work in his second administration), it stands to reason that a lot of those ideas would make their way in.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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No, I haven't read it, nor have I claimed to, but that's besides the point. I'm trying to make a distinction between the individual ideas and the collection of ideas labeled "Project 2025." Given the significant number of former Trump administration people who were involved in crafting the project (and likely would work in his second administration), it stands to reason that a lot of those ideas would make their way in.
Which ideas crafted in the Project 2025 document and which Trump supposedly indorses do you disagree with?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Which ideas crafted in the Project 2025 document and which Trump supposedly indorses do you disagree with?
It doesn't matter. That's not the point. The point is whether Harris was being honest in her associating it with Trump.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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It doesn't matter. That's not the point. The point is whether Harris was being honest in her associating it with Trump.
So you really don't know, just say so.

As far as Harris associating Project 2025 with Trump, she was wrong period.

I never heard of Project 2025 until it made the news as being associated with Trump, a few months ago.

Very few political junkies like myself even heard of it.
 
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So you really don't know, just say so.

I've heard things here and there, but again - the content of Project 2025 is not the subject of discussion here.


As far as Harris associating Project 2025 with Trump, she was wrong period.

That's your opinion.

I never heard of Project 2025 until it made the news as being associated with Trump, a few months ago.
I believe we've gone over this before. NYT and other mainstream outlets have been reporting on it for over a year.

Very few political junkies like myself even heard of it.
If "like yourself" means "consuming primarily right-wing content," then that would make sense.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I've heard things here and there, but again - the content of Project 2025 is not the subject of discussion here.




That's your opinion.


I believe we've gone over this before. NYT and other mainstream outlets have been reporting on it for over a year.


If "like yourself" means "consuming primarily right-wing content," then that would make sense.
Right wing comment? LOL

FYI, I once voted for Obama. I also supported Obamacare which I was on. So, your right-wing comment is far from reality.
 
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It would be useful for Christians to carefully read through all the
items that were fact checked. And, to read other news sources' fact
checking for the debate (such as CNN).

The political debate between Democrats and Republicans, in Washington, D.C.,
has been so angry and stylized, that it is difficult to get at whether or not the
slogans used by both parties, are true.

Many of the fact checking results have "Need Context" noted. That is, the
statement by the candidate needs to be narrowed by other details, in order
to be true. Politicians in Washington have become loose, making broad
generalizations that are true sometimes, but not true in other situations.
Christians need to listen less to the general slogans, and as about the
details surrounding the generalizations.

Some of the assertions by the candidates, are simply false.
Some of the false statements, are still widely accepted as true, by some
social media platforms.
Some of the assertions are false, and backed up (as false) by professional
economists, however some groups still are promoting them as true.

*****
One of the things that HAS GOT TO CHANGE IN WASHINGTON, is the
presentation of slogans that are so general, as to be almost meaningless.
The real situation in America includes complex dynamics, and the political
candidates need to feel free to talk about topics such as "inflation" using
many more types of information, and more complicated statements, than
"it's great" or "it's worse than it has ever been before". You would not let
your financial retirement planner to use this type of silly statement to describe
how they are handling your financial investments -- and we should not expect
these sorts of childish statements to be used by politicians.

The problem with politicians, is that American citizens let them get away with
stating goals, without substantially stating HOW THEY WILL REACH THOSE GOALS.
Anyone can assert that they will attain goals, that American citizens find attractive.
But in complex technical situations, we have seen that the average American
citizen does not have the technical skills, to bring about those goals. In a very
technology centered society (sorry to say this), but amateur citizens don't have
the technical tools to reach technical goals.
---------- ----------

I find that many of the same useless generalizations in politics, are
aimed at people who do not carefully look for information about
the underlying topics (that the slogans claim to be addressing).

The same problem of shallow slogans, exists in the area of Christian apologetics.
Christian apologetics that is filled with religious slogans, but is not very careful
about using biblical definitions of words and phrases, may sound wonderful (to
some denominational groups), but will be producing LOGICALLY UNSOUND
arguments.

Christians should reject slogan apologetics, and slogan politics, and carefully look
to test all things, and hold onto what is good. And THAT does not mean going to
your favorite daytime talk show host for answers. Try reading articles from 20
different news sources (such as the Google news page). Try reading the articles in
Christianity Today, about political candidates.
Does Trump have the mental awareness to understand that what he says, many times, is a lie?
 
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childeye 2

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She also claimed that Trump supported Project 2025, which he has denied for a couple of months now. He was right that
the accusation was brought by the democrats.
Why did Paul Dans resign from project 2025??

Trump April 21, 2022:
Because our country is going to hell. The critical job of institutions such as Heritage is to lay the groundwork. And Heritage does such an incredible job at that. And I'm telling you, with Kevin and the staff, and I met so many of them now, I took pictures with among the most handsome, beautiful people I've ever seen. I didn't like that picture. If you could lose that picture, please would you Kevin? But this is a great… No, he says I won't do that. But this is a great group. And they're going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do and what your movement will do when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save America and that's coming.

April 14, 2022:

Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts released the following statement on the launch of the 2025 Presidential Transition Project:

“The Washington, D.C., bureaucrats responsible for crafting and implementing policy can be just as damaging to our country as those elected to lead it.



“It is not enough to elect conservative leaders who articulate the right policies. We must ensure that the men and women surrounding these leaders also cherish American greatness, hold an unwavering fidelity to our Constitution, and believe in the supremacy of our God-given rights.



“That is why we are standing up the 2025 Presidential Transition Project almost three years out from the next administration. Heritage will help provide not just the intellectual firepower to policymakers, but also do everything we can to ensure the right people hold positions of influence in Washington—and are empowered to root out those who no longer serve the interests of the American people.



“I am excited for the great things Paul Dans and our team will do to make this vision a reality. His extensive experience in personnel matters, coupled with his love for this country and the principles that make us great, will be invaluable tools as we begin the process of restoring America and uniting the conservative movement around doing so.”
 
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Harris's worse lie was that no US Military members are in harms way. Actually, troops are in Iraq and Syria. My grandson's
naval battle group were in the Red Sea, fighting Houthis in Yaman.
Harris didn't say that no US military members are in harm's way, and I doubt she meant that. This is what she said in context: America's taxpayers are not paying the $300 million a day we were paying for that endless war. And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world, the first time this century.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Harris didn't say that no US military members are in harm's way, and I doubt she meant that. This is what she said in context: America's taxpayers are not paying the $300 million a day we were paying for that endless war. And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world, the first time this century.
None in a combat zone? If you're being shot at while serving in the military, you're in a combat zone. If the president (Biden) orders missile and airstrikes against those who have been attacking US bases, it's a combat zone
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Why did Paul Dans resign from project 2025??

Trump April 21, 2022:
Because our country is going to hell. The critical job of institutions such as Heritage is to lay the groundwork. And Heritage does such an incredible job at that. And I'm telling you, with Kevin and the staff, and I met so many of them now, I took pictures with among the most handsome, beautiful people I've ever seen. I didn't like that picture. If you could lose that picture, please would you Kevin? But this is a great… No, he says I won't do that. But this is a great group. And they're going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do and what your movement will do when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save America and that's coming.

April 14, 2022:

Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts released the following statement on the launch of the 2025 Presidential Transition Project:
Despite Trump's statement saying he is not part of Project 2025, which policy in the document do you oppose?

I only scanned through it yesterday and didn't see anything to oppose. In fact, from what I've seen, it calls for our
government to follow the US Constitution.

There must be something in the document that has the left all upset about it, so what is it?
 
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childeye 2

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None in a combat zone? If you're being shot at while serving in the military, you're in a combat zone. If the president (Biden) orders missile and airstrikes against those who have been attacking US bases, it's a combat zone
I know of the drone attack in Syria and I'm sure she does too, but the US is currently not engaged in a war where members of the armed services are fighting, as they were in Afghanistan. People can use the occasion of semantics to claim others are lying, but people don't get to claim what other people mean.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I know of the drone attack in Syria and I'm sure she does too, but the US is currently not engaged in a war where members of the armed services are fighting, as they were in Afghanistan. People can use the occasion of semantics to claim others are lying, but people don't get to claim what other people mean.
Not engaged in an officially declared war, I agree. However, the Vietnam War was not an officially declared war, but I challenge you
to tell a Vietnam Era Veteran that it wasn't a war. FYI, I served in the Marines back then.

Read for yourself;

 
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childeye 2

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Despite Trump's statement saying he is not part of Project 2025, which policy in the document do you oppose?

I only scanned through it yesterday and didn't see anything to oppose. In fact, from what I've seen, it calls for our
government to follow the US Constitution.

There must be something in the document that has the left all upset about it, so what is it?
I think people should be asking themselves why Trump applauded the introducing of project 2025 during his heritage foundation speech, and then later on say some of it is very radical right-wing stuff even calling it absurd, and then finally claim he has nothing to do with it and he never even read it. I say this because it's not just "the so called left" that is alarmed by what's in it as some might suppose.

A few other points. The left/right political dichotomy exists to denote that there is an abstract center; that's the whole point. In other words, it is meant to represent an objective view at the center of two opposing subjective views that are both equally valid. So, anyone who speaks hypocritically by working both sides against the middle is reasoning upon bias and cannot be trustworthy.

Having said that, It's upsetting to find there is divisive language in the document that speaks out of partisan bias, using terms like 'the left" and "identity politics" and "wokeness" and "diversity" with only negative connotations. That shows whoever wrote it reasons upon negative prejudice.

But the real problem with project 2025 is that it is propaganda designed to characterize the move away from democracy and towards autocracy as the intention of restructuring the inefficiency of institutions through removing the mechanisms that also happen to be the inhibitors of a dictatorship. By the centralizing of power into the presidency, it allows one person the right to impose/dictate their vision of what's best for all people on all levels of government.

Examples would be the forced implementation of the authoritarian approach to governance, giving the federal government the power to charge elected state attorney generals or other state officials for not carrying out federally mandated positions of ideology, and/or the hiring and firing of people in government positions according to whether they agree or disagree with an autocrat's personal views.

Therefore, the document contains descriptions that would allow draconian directives threatening people such as Dreamers, who no fault of their own have grown up in America and have established lives and ties in their community. It would force those communities to support uprooting these people or go to jail. It could also do away with asylum status altogether, and hiding or protecting a person who is regarded as a parasite poisoning the blood of the country would be a punishable offense.

 
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