Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[Hoping2]

I say that you are the one whose interpretation is screwy, and I think it's because you read with prejudice or a premise.

Your response to 1 Cor. 2 says essentially what I said, except you appear adversarial in your response. The difference is that you said "not necessarily," so you don't think that Paul was talking about the gospel when he said "things of the Spirit."

Correct, a those people had all already heard and acted on the gospel in their own lives.

My point is that he is talking about the gospel, because since early ch. 1 he has been talking about the gospel he preaches, and he has not changed the subject. When he said in v. 10 "God has revealed them," and in v. 16 "we have the mind of Christ," he is speaking of the gospel of Christ which he preached, since it was once a mystery but had been revealed through the words of Christ which we have in the gospels, and the words of the apostles in the rest of the NT.

Did Paul's teachings end after the gospel was preached ?
No, and the things he added are the things the non-spiritual man can't understand.

Concerning your statement on 1 Jn. 5:1: "When I read that verse, I see...Everyone who has been born of God believes that Jesus is the Christ."
Although you are actually reading it backward from how the text is written, it appears to me that it says the same thing. Being born of God comes prior to belief in Christ. According to Eph. 2:1-10, God must raise us up to spiritual life from being dead in sin, and then it logically follows that we are saved by grace through faith. But I'm certain that you disagree, based on your statement that you had to be baptised first before you were born again.

How can one be reborn of One they know nothing about ?
As I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), it is apparent that baptism is instrumental in rebirth.

It just begs the question who your teacher is - where do you go to church?

I go to The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21).
How about you ?
Who is it that teaches rebirth while still covered with old sins ?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

to deny we can now be free from sin.

Dominion over does not mean eradication. Covered this already

No one but Jesus is sinless

And yes, the tempter does tempt us all in mind, placing the tempter where?

Why anyone wants to let the tempter in their own minds off the hook is a whole nother conversation

 

[tdidymas]

Correct, a those people had all already heard and acted on the gospel in their own lives.

You're wrong here. None of the writings of the NT have any implication that everyone in the churches were true believers or had acted on the gospel. Example: 1 Cor. 14:23, saying, "... and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers..."

Did Paul's teachings end after the gospel was preached ?
No, and the things he added are the things the non-spiritual man can't understand.

Theology is part of the gospel, as clearly presented in Romans and Ephesians.

How can one be reborn of One they know nothing about ?
As I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), it is apparent that baptism is instrumental in rebirth.

Eph. 2:5

I go to The Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21).

So are you Pentecostal then?

How about you ?

Bible Church, where scripture is prime.

Who is it that teaches rebirth while still covered with old sins ?

The apostle Paul, in Eph. 2:5. "Even while..."

 

[Hoping2]

Dominion over does not mean eradication. Covered this already

If sin resurfaces, it manifests a lack of repentance from sin and a lack of rebirth from God's seed.

No one but Jesus is sinless

He was the first, and our pattern in the NT.

And yes, the tempter does tempt us all in mind, placing the tempter where?

Was the devil in Jesus when He was tempted ?

Why anyone wants to let the tempter in their own minds off the hook is a whole nother conversation

Why anyone would even suggest it is beyond me.

 

[Hoping2]

You're wrong here. None of the writings of the NT have any implication that everyone in the churches were true believers or had acted on the gospel. Example: 1 Cor. 14:23, saying, "... and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers..."

You are right about that, but Paul wasn't still trying to convert folks who were professing Christianity.
That is why I feel his "spiritual things" were addendums to, or after effects of, the gospel.
Like Spiritual gifts, or communion, or women being silent in the church, or hair length.
The natural man will think them all foolishness.

Theology is part of the gospel, as clearly presented in Romans and Ephesians.

Agreed, but the natural man will not understand.

So are you Pentecostal then?

No, as my visits to their "churches" show they still commit sin.

Bible Church, where scripture is prime.

I am glad.

The apostle Paul, in Eph. 2:5. "Even while..."

Being dead in sins will continue up till one isn't dead in sins.
New life happens after repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and rebirth from God's seed.

 

[tdidymas]

You are right about that, but Paul wasn't still trying to convert folks who were professing Christianity.
That is why I feel his "spiritual things" were addendums to, or after effects of, the gospel.
Like Spiritual gifts, or communion, or women being silent in the church, or hair length.
The natural man will think them all foolishness.

Agreed, but the natural man will not understand.

No, as my visits to their "churches" show they still commit sin.

So then, you don't attend that church you said you attended, you only visted?

And of course, you don't commit any sin whatsoever, as you are so righteous.

I am glad.

Being dead in sins will continue up till one isn't dead in sins.
New life happens after repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and rebirth from God's seed.

"dead in sins" means that one is overcome by sin. It's the same as being a slave to sin (Jn. 8:32).

But being free from sin doesn't make one sinless. It makes one not a slave to it. But that even has to be taught (Rom. 6 et al), because it doesn't come naturally. The faith for it doesn't come naturally as a result of being born again. If it did, the teaching wouldn't be necessary. And Paul was teaching the churches, those who had repented and responded to the gospel.

New life happens when a person is converted from being a slave to sin to submission to God. This produces repentance and obedience. But you have it backward, as you claim a person has to repent and obey when he is still dead in sins (before baptism).

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If sin resurfaces, it manifests a lack of repentance from sin and a lack of rebirth from God's seed.

No one other than Jesus was ever sinless to begin with. Nor does anyone make themselves sinless "because" there is another party to sin, "the devil," who will always be a sinner/tempter working against us all, you remember?

Adversary. That party totally missing from your sin equations. In accordance with Mark 4:15

 

[Hoping2]

So then, you don't attend that church you said you attended, you only visted?

I visit other churches than the one I attend.

And of course, you don't commit any sin whatsoever, as you are so righteous.

Correct, as God gave us all the ways and means of walking in the light, instead of in darkness.

"dead in sins" means that one is overcome by sin. It's the same as being a slave to sin (Jn. 8:32).

Agreed.
No man can serve two masters, so if they serve sin they cannot serve God.

But being free from sin doesn't make one sinless.

That doesn't make sense !

It makes one not a slave to it. But that even has to be taught (Rom. 6 et al), because it doesn't come naturally. The faith for it doesn't come naturally as a result of being born again. If it did, the teaching wouldn't be necessary. And Paul was teaching the churches, those who had repented and responded to the gospel.

What was taught was how to accomplish freedom from service to sin.

New life happens when a person is converted from being a slave to sin to submission to God. This produces repentance and obedience. But you have it backward, as you claim a person has to repent and obey when he is still dead in sins (before baptism).

If one does not turn from sin, his baptism is just a bath.

 

[Hoping2]

No one other than Jesus was ever sinless to begin with.

Enoch and Elijah will argue that point.
So might John the baptist.

Nor does anyone make themselves sinless "because" there is another party to sin, "the devil," who will always be a sinner/tempter working against us all, you remember?

Peter told us how to be sinless in Acts 2:38.
Paul tells us how to be sinless in Rom 6:3-6.
Ananias told Paul how to be sinless in Acts 22:16.
Temptation is not sin.

Adversary. That party totally missing from your sin equations. In accordance with Mark 4:15

Mark 4:15 describes those who do not accept the words of Christ.
Others do accept it. (Mark 4:20)..."And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred."
Your equation misses the factor of the people choosing to good instead of doing evil.

 

[David Lamb]

Enoch and Elijah will argue that point.
So might John the baptist.

Peter told us how to be sinless in Acts 2:38.
Paul tells us how to be sinless in Rom 6:3-6.
Ananias told Paul how to be sinless in Acts 22:16.
Temptation is not sin.

Mark 4:15 describes those who do not accept the words of Christ.
Others do accept it. (Mark 4:20)..."And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred."
Your equation misses the factor of the people choosing to good instead of doing evil.

How do Enoch and Elijah argue the point? None of the verse you quote teach that we can be sinless in this life. For example, can anybody truly love God with all the heart, soul, mind and strength, every moment of every day?

 

[contratodo]

He that does not love me, does not keep my words.
John 14:24

If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let them be Anathema! Oh Lord Come!
1 Corinthians 16:22

If you live after the flesh you shall (spiritually) die.
But if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.
Because as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the ones that are born again, born of God, children of God.
Romans 8:13-14

Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me.
And I give unto them eternal life
John 10:27-28

I say unto you that hear, love.......
Luke 6:27

And if you love me, keep my words.
John 14:15

He that does not love me, does not keep my words.
John 14:24

Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:13
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let them be Anathema! Oh Lord Come!
1 Corinthians 16:22


-------


Lord, how is it that you will reveal yourself to us and not to the world?
And Jesus said; If any man loves me, he will keep my words,
and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make our abode with him.
John 14:21

You disciples go out into all the world and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all of my words.
Matthew 28:19-20

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household.
And they told him all the words of the Lord, and to his household.
And they baptized them all that very night.
Acts 16:30-33


Let us never ever neglect the clear full context.
For the scripture explains itself well.


And that Christ died for all, that they which live should henceforth
not live unto themselves, but unto Him that died for them and rose again.
2 Corinthians 5:15


And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and its lusts.
Galatians 5:24

 

[tdidymas]

I visit other churches than the one I attend.

Another evasion. I made it clear I was trying to find out where you are coming from. And don't say "the Bible," because your interpretation of it is defective. "Other churches" does not constitute who your teachers are. Where did you learn your doctrine of sinless perfection?

Correct, as God gave us all the ways and means of walking in the light, instead of in darkness.

Someone who loves his fellow Christian is walking in the light, as 1 John makes it clear. It doesn't mean sinless perfection.

Agreed.
No man can serve two masters, so if they serve sin they cannot serve God.

That doesn't make sense !

It doesn't make sense to you because you apparently don't believe that Christians (namely you) can ever commit sin, even though the apostles make it clear that they can and do. You still have a sin nature that you have to fight against daily (Jesus said take up cross daily). You still have errors you live in, and that means you're falling short of Christ's glory, which means you're sinning. Of course, no one is accusing you of prostitution or witchcraft or murder or any other heinous sin. Christians in general as a rule repent from such things. But what about your arrogance, that is, your attitude that you can't even consider that you could be wrong in your interpretation of scripture? That's sin.

What was taught was how to accomplish freedom from service to sin.

Can you spell out that "how"?

If one does not turn from sin, his baptism is just a bath.

Another evasion. Why don't you address the problem of repentance and obedience while a person is dead in sin?

Earlier in this thread you admitted to believing in baptismal regeneration several times in your responses. I asked you specifically if you believe in that doctrine, and you justified it with an explanation of why you believe in it. So if a person is born again in water baptism, then you need to explain how a person while dead in sin (not born again, not regenerated) can obey God by repenting (and thus be pleasing to God enough that God responds favorably to him). Can you please explain that using scripture? How can a person repent when he is still dead in sin?

 

[Hoping2]

How do Enoch and Elijah argue the point?

What sin did either commit ?

None of the verse you quote teach that we can be sinless in this life.

I don't know how you could miss it.
Our life in Christ starts off in purity, and it can continue therein.
God gave us everything we needed to start pure, and He has provided all we require to remain pure.

For example, can anybody truly love God with all the heart, soul, mind and strength, every moment of every day?

Yes.
God does not command the impossible.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Enoch and Elijah will argue that point.
So might John the baptist.

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Who do the sheep not hear? "Thieves and Robbers"

Just as Peter was clueless when Satan spoke from his own lips and Judas likewise when Satan entered him

There's a very simple principle involved here that Jesus taught: Mark 4:15

Where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart and sins via theft, besides a plethora of other sins, openly revealed

Your position simply has no answer to these facts and is in this regard, clueless

Even though we know we are no better than other sinners, Romans 3:9 and sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

Why anyone wants to be like the pharisee of Luke 18, claiming they are not like the other sinners is beyond me, but it happens all the time with religious positions

 

[Hoping2]

Another evasion. I made it clear I was trying to find out where you are coming from. And don't say "the Bible," because your interpretation of it is defective. "Other churches" does not constitute who your teachers are. Where did you learn your doctrine of sinless perfection?

I'm not sure of what you think I was evading, but you have not asked me anything to evade.
I learned the doctrine of Godliness from the bishop of "the Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".

Someone who loves his fellow Christian is walking in the light, as 1 John makes it clear. It doesn't mean sinless perfection.

Are those who do not love their brothers in the light ?
Remember, God is the light, (1 John 1:5), so there are no sinners in God or the light.

It doesn't make sense to you because you apparently don't believe that Christians (namely you) can ever commit sin, even though the apostles make it clear that they can and do.

I could commit sin, if I wanted to.
But I don't want to.

You still have a sin nature that you have to fight against daily (Jesus said take up cross daily).

The destruction if the old me was complete, from head to toe, and included all that which was of Adam.
I was given a new, divine nature, at my resurrection with Christ from His grave.

You still have errors you live in, and that means you're falling short of Christ's glory, which means you're sinning.

If you are saying a misspelled word is a sin, I can't agree with you.

Of course, no one is accusing you of prostitution or witchcraft or murder or any other heinous sin. Christians in general as a rule repent from such things. But what about your arrogance, that is, your attitude that you can't even consider that you could be wrong in your interpretation of scripture? That's sin.

Speaking truth does not constitute arrogance.
My POV magnifies all that Jesus accomplished with His death, burial, and resurrection.
How does continued disobedience do that ?

Can you spell out that "how"?

Freedom from sin is accomplished by availing our selves of the gifts of God.
Repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
After those first acts of faith, we grow in grace and knowledge.
Those who brought us the knowledge of God's ways will instruct us going forward.

Another evasion. Why don't you address the problem of repentance and obedience while a person is dead in sin?

Don't you think that God will show His merciful grace to those intent on a life of love ?
If a man who is dead in sin wants to quit sinning, God will allow, and even further that man's hopes.

Earlier in this thread you admitted to believing in baptismal regeneration several times in your responses. I asked you specifically if you believe in that doctrine, and you justified it with an explanation of why you believe in it. So if a person is born again in water baptism, then you need to explain how a person while dead in sin (not born again, not regenerated) can obey God by repenting (and thus be pleasing to God enough that God responds favorably to him). Can you please explain that using scripture? How can a person repent when he is still dead in sin?

Is it not written that faith cometh by hearing ?
Are not all those who 'hear' dead in sin ?
A person's heart is visible to God no matter what their state of conversion is.
If a man wants to do righteousness, God does hear them.
Cornelius' group is a prime example of that happening.
The man in Paul's dream about Macedonia is another.
God won't work against those who desire to please Him.

 

[Hoping2]

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Who do the sheep not hear? "Thieves and Robbers"
Just as Peter was clueless when Satan spoke from his own lips and Judas likewise when Satan entered him
There's a very simple principle involved here that Jesus taught: Mark 4:15
Where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart and sins via theft, besides a plethora of other sins, openly revealed

That scrip' does not say the devil enters into anyone's heart, and others don't allow the devil to take anything away from them.

Your position simply has no answer to these facts and is in this regard, clueless
Even though we know we are no better than other sinners, Romans 3:9 and sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

If one will start walking in the light-God, they won't be a sinner anymore.

Why anyone wants to be like the pharisee of Luke 18, claiming they are not like the other sinners is beyond me, but it happens all the time with religious positions

The reason some compare themselves to other sinners, is because they are unaware of those who don't sin at all.
Those emulating the parable's Pharisee are using the wrong scale.

 

[tdidymas]

I'm not sure of what you think I was evading, but you have not asked me anything to evade.
I learned the doctrine of Godliness from the bishop of "the Church By Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".

I told you plainly what you were evading. Are you paying attention? What is the name of the bishop you are talking about?

Are those who do not love their brothers in the light ?
Remember, God is the light, (1 John 1:5), so there are no sinners in God or the light.

I could commit sin, if I wanted to.
But I don't want to.

According to Paul in Gal. 5:16-21, Christians have to engage in spiritual warfare against the sinful nature residing in them. Why do you think he says "you cannot do what you will"? Every Christian has two "wills" in them, two opposing "wants." This is why he says "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh." This is the warfare. As long as we are in this world, we live in mortal flesh in which we have desires that are contrary to God's will. Certainly we are not "of this world," but we have not yet been freed from the presence of sin, and we have to constantly deal with it.

Anyone who is mature enough to know God's holiness to be familiar with it can readily see how they fall far short of it, and understand they have a long way to go to be holy as Christ is. This is what is meant by saying we're still sinners (and saints at the same time). We call ourselves "sinners" to be reminded that we can fall at any time, unintentionally, and prepare ourselves to ask forgiveness for the wrong we commit.

It's much the same as someone who was once addicted to alcohol confesses he is an alcoholic, not because he is still in bondage to it, but to remind himself that he could quickly be in bondage to it if he takes even one drink. Saying he is an alcoholic is saying that he is weak in that activity, and refuses to take an alcoholic beverage from anyone for that reason. It's not saying he is still an addict or a junkie.

In the same way, we call ourselves sinners to remind us that we are weak in those things we used to be enslaved to. It's not saying we are still enslaved. The desires still exist, this is why we have to "walk in the Spirit" as the apostle Paul commands Christians to do. But if someone isn't practiced in walking in the Spirit, and they stumble, then should they be condemned as a sinner? Would you say such a person is not a true Christian?

The destruction if the old me was complete, from head to toe, and included all that which was of Adam.
I was given a new, divine nature, at my resurrection with Christ from His grave.

If you are saying a misspelled word is a sin, I can't agree with you.

No, I didn't say that. Don't exaggerate just to evade the question or justify your error. Why don't you explain Jesus' words to take up your cross daily? Why did He say daily? Why didn't he just say "take up your cross" as if to die to sin one time only? Why did He say daily?

Speaking truth does not constitute arrogance.

Yet I'm saying you're not speaking truth. Your conclusion that you are sinless is not the truth. I know that you think you are speaking truth because you think your doctrine of sinless perfection is truth, but it's not. Further, you are again evading what I said, or else you are misunderstanding it. I said that your arrogance is in your thinking, such that you are not able to admit you could be wrong about your doctrine, even though several people in here have given you many scriptures to consider. But your response is to quote your pet prooftexts, as if pitting scripture against scripture is "speaking truth." But that strategy doesn't accomplish anything. All it does is stir up endless debates or quarrels.

So at some point you won't see any more responses from me, especially if you continue the same strategy. At some point I will deem that you are unteachable, and that you're in bondage to a cult doctrine, in which you hide behind your screen and endlessly debate about your favorite doctrine of "sinless perfection" to try and get someone in the forum to concede to your idea, thus validating you. If that happens, then you'll be like a cult leader, gathering followers. That of course is worst case; but at best I'm not going to continue this endless debate.

My POV magnifies all that Jesus accomplished with His death, burial, and resurrection.
How does continued disobedience do that ?

Here again do you put more words into what I said, namely "continued". Nowhere did I say "continued" or "continue." So with this response, I have to ask this question: If I say "where sin abounds, grace much more abounds," and if I say "to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," or if I say "the free grace of God means I am justified by faith alone, and salvation requires no work or effort from myself," do you believe that I am teaching antinomianism? Do you then believe that I am saying in effect, "let us do evil that good may come"? (this is a yes or no question)

Freedom from sin is accomplished by availing our selves of the gifts of God.
Repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
After those first acts of faith, we grow in grace and knowledge.
Those who brought us the knowledge of God's ways will instruct us going forward.

Don't you think that God will show His merciful grace to those intent on a life of love ?
If a man who is dead in sin wants to quit sinning, God will allow, and even further that man's hopes.

Where do you think the desire to quit sinning comes from? Do you think it comes from the man who is dead in sin?

Is it not written that faith cometh by hearing ?
Are not all those who 'hear' dead in sin ?

If a person has ears to hear, he is not dead in sin, because God has already changed the disposition of his heart. The one dead in sin doesn't have ears to hear the good news. Some people think they hear it and understand it, and can repeat it back to you, but God has to bring a person into spiritual life (Eph. 2:5) before they have ears to hear and believe from the heart. Those who "received it with joy" (the message), but then fall away because of cares of this life (etc), those people have not had their spiritual ears opened by God.

A person's heart is visible to God no matter what their state of conversion is

God sees everything, so the question is who sees enough to want Christ.

If a man wants to do righteousness, God does hear them.

If a man wants to do righteousness, he isn't dead in sin, but already made alive by God (Eph. 2:5)

Cornelius' group is a prime example of that happening.

The man in Paul's dream about Macedonia is another.
God won't work against those who desire to please Him.

These people were ready to believe, therefore they had ears to hear already. It means that God already changed the disposition of their hearts. It's the same with the disciples before the Holy Spirit was given. Prior to the day of Pentecost, all the saints, including all the OT saints had been born of God, and were called sons of God.

Anyone who believes in Christ pleases God. If someone desires to please God under God's terms, that person loves God, and God is working everything to their good (Rom. 8:28). Yet, many desire to please God but can't, because they aren't approaching God according to His terms. It started with Cain, and continued with the Pharisees.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

That scrip' does not say the devil enters into anyone's heart, and others don't allow the devil to take anything away from them.

So when Jesus spoke to Satan in Peter you're saying Satan wasn't within Peter to do so? As in heart/mind? Just to clarify

And since all "have," present tense sin, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:9 and sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8 the math seems relatively clear, even if we don't care to hear the conclusion of the scriptural facts

Hosea 5:4

They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the Lord.

Where do you think the desire to quit sinning comes from? Do you think it comes from the man who is dead in sin?

I've noted this many times now: Your position simply has no accounting for the operations of the other parties IN MANKIND. Jesus engaged devils in mankind, continually. He spoke to them. Condemned them. Revealed their presence in some instances. Cast them out in other instances.

It's part of the Gospel, to understand this present reality. Those who mitigate it are technically blinded by that reality, and can not speak about it, personally.

We are all tempted internally by a foreign agent, our adversary, the devil

Therefore there is no individual standing on earth. There are the people, and there is the adversary or his own, also in operation

 

[Hoping2]

I told you plainly what you were evading. Are you paying attention? What is the name of the bishop you are talking about?

Your measure of evasion needs work.
Knowing his name won't help you.

According to Paul in Gal. 5:16-21, Christians have to engage in spiritual warfare against the sinful nature residing in them. Why do you think he says "you cannot do what you will"? Every Christian has two "wills" in them, two opposing "wants." This is why he says "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh." This is the warfare. As long as we are in this world, we live in mortal flesh in which we have desires that are contrary to God's will. Certainly we are not "of this world," but we have not yet been freed from the presence of sin, and we have to constantly deal with it.

Your misreading of Gal 5 keeps you looking at things from the perspective of being in the flesh.
Don't you see it says those in the Spirit CANNOT DO the things of the flesh ?
And those walking in the flesh CANNOT DO the things of the Spirit ?

Anyone who is mature enough to know God's holiness to be familiar with it can readily see how they fall far short of it, and understand they have a long way to go to be holy as Christ is. This is what is meant by saying we're still sinners (and saints at the same time). We call ourselves "sinners" to be reminded that we can fall at any time, unintentionally, and prepare ourselves to ask forgiveness for the wrong we commit.

Anyone who truly repents of sin won't be a sinner anymore.
The false repentances produce the product you describe.

It's much the same as someone who was once addicted to alcohol confesses he is an alcoholic, not because he is still in bondage to it, but to remind himself that he could quickly be in bondage to it if he takes even one drink. Saying he is an alcoholic is saying that he is weak in that activity, and refuses to take an alcoholic beverage from anyone for that reason. It's not saying he is still an addict or a junkie.

In the same way, we call ourselves sinners to remind us that we are weak in those things we used to be enslaved to. It's not saying we are still enslaved. The desires still exist, this is why we have to "walk in the Spirit" as the apostle Paul commands Christians to do. But if someone isn't practiced in walking in the Spirit, and they stumble, then should they be condemned as a sinner? Would you say such a person is not a true Christian?

We can either keep re-emphasizing our corruption, or we can obey God and escape it !
Why glorify your sins when you could be glorifying God ?

No, I didn't say that.

I am glad !

Don't exaggerate just to evade the question or justify your error. Why don't you explain Jesus' words to take up your cross daily? Why did He say daily? Why didn't he just say "take up your cross" as if to die to sin one time only? Why did He say daily?

He was talking to OT men who could not yet crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts.
We have been given that opportunity by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Yet I'm saying you're not speaking truth. Your conclusion that you are sinless is not the truth.

You had better have proof of any sins you accuse me of, or take it back.

I know that you think you are speaking truth because you think your doctrine of sinless perfection is truth, but it's not.

It is the truth Jesus said could make us free from committing sin, in John 8:32-34.
And "truth" that cannot do that is not of Christ.

Further, you are again evading what I said, or else you are misunderstanding it. I said that your arrogance is in your thinking, such that you are not able to admit you could be wrong about your doctrine, even though several people in here have given you many scriptures to consider. But your response is to quote your pet prooftexts, as if pitting scripture against scripture is "speaking truth." But that strategy doesn't accomplish anything. All it does is stir up endless debates or quarrels.

Does your version of truth free you from service to sin ?
If not, it is not Jesus' truth.

So at some point you won't see any more responses from me, especially if you continue the same strategy. At some point I will deem that you are unteachable, and that you're in bondage to a cult doctrine, in which you hide behind your screen and endlessly debate about your favorite doctrine of "sinless perfection" to try and get someone in the forum to concede to your idea, thus validating you. If that happens, then you'll be like a cult leader, gathering followers. That of course is worst case; but at best I'm not going to continue this endless debate.

Your premise is that you have to keep serving sin, and I disagree with it.
Was there anything else we were talking about ?

Here again do you put more words into what I said, namely "continued". Nowhere did I say "continued" or "continue." So with this response, I have to ask this question: If I say "where sin abounds, grace much more abounds," and if I say "to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," or if I say "the free grace of God means I am justified by faith alone, and salvation requires no work or effort from myself," do you believe that I am teaching antinomianism? Do you then believe that I am saying in effect, "let us do evil that good may come"? (this is a yes or no question)

The truth of what you teach will be determined by it's fruit.
Does it lead to righteousness ?
Or does it just embed sin into the supposed body of Christ ?

Where do you think the desire to quit sinning comes from? Do you think it comes from the man who is dead in sin?

It comes from an offended conscience.

If a person has ears to hear, he is not dead in sin, because God has already changed the disposition of his heart.

Prove it.

The one dead in sin doesn't have ears to hear the good news. Some people think they hear it and understand it, and can repeat it back to you, but God has to bring a person into spiritual life (Eph. 2:5) before they have ears to hear and believe from the heart. Those who "received it with joy" (the message), but then fall away because of cares of this life (etc), those people have not had their spiritual ears opened by God.

God sees everything, so the question is who sees enough to want Christ.

If a man wants to do righteousness, he isn't dead in sin, but already made alive by God (Eph. 2:5)


These people were ready to believe, therefore they had ears to hear already. It means that God already changed the disposition of their hearts. It's the same with the disciples before the Holy Spirit was given. Prior to the day of Pentecost, all the saints, including all the OT saints had been born of God, and were called sons of God.

Anyone who believes in Christ pleases God. If someone desires to please God under God's terms, that person loves God, and God is working everything to their good (Rom. 8:28). Yet, many desire to please God but can't, because they aren't approaching God according to His terms. It started with Cain, and continued with the Pharisees.

The devils believe in Christ.
Did God cause that too ?

 

[Hoping2]

So when Jesus spoke to Satan in Peter you're saying Satan wasn't within Peter to do so? As in heart/mind? Just to clarify

Where does it say the devil was in Peter ?

And since all "have," present tense sin, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:9 and sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8 the math seems relatively clear, even if we don't care to hear the conclusion of the scriptural facts

You misread scripture in order to malign the work of Christ who made us free from sin.
1 John 1:8 addresses those who walk in darkness-sin.
Rom 3;9 is Paul's quote of a scrip' that was pertinent in the OT...only. He uses it to show the Jews that even with the Law, they were no better off than the Gentiles.
That verse also precedes the results of the NT...and freedom from sin.
Rom 3:21-22..." But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:"

Hosea 5:4
They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the Lord.

How does that OT scrip' apply to those who have followed Christ out of darkness ?

I've noted this many times now: Your position simply has no accounting for the operations of the other parties IN MANKIND. Jesus engaged devils in mankind, continually. He spoke to them. Condemned them. Revealed their presence in some instances. Cast them out in other instances.

If He has cast them out of those reborn now of God's seed, how can the devil still be in us ?
That is your whole point, isn't it ?
That the devil is in you ?

It's part of the Gospel, to understand this present reality. Those who mitigate it are technically blinded by that reality, and can not speak about it, personally.
We are all tempted internally by a foreign agent, our adversary, the devil

My adversary has been conquered, and has no power over me or my actions.
If you wish to remain in subjection to the devil, don't repent of sin or get washed of past sins by the blood of Christ.
Don't ask for the gift of the Holy Ghost either.
And don't beleive scrips' like 1 Cor 10-13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

Therefore there is no individual standing on earth. There are the people, and there is the adversary or his own, also in operation

That didn't make much sense