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If Trump Loses, Elites Will Rule Unchallenged For Decades

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rjs330

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And guess what, he also didn't close those loopholes,
They aren't loop holes. They are legal deductions that everyone is allowed to take. One shouldn't be upset at people doing things that are perfectly legal. Thete is no such thing as a tax loop hole. They should be calked deductions.
The proper way to say it would be that Congress did not eliminate certain deductions from the tax code. It's not anything a president can do. A president can ask Congress and put political pressure on them, but the president can't do anything to actually change it themselves.

For all the rhetoric from the left about the rich I haven't seen any Democrat president really force Congress to make any substantial change to the tax code to soak the rich. I mean haven't we been talking about this for decades now? With a Republican Congress and Democratic congresses. We been talking about this through Republican and Democratic president's and none of them have done what you want in order to make the rich pay thier fair share.
 
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rjs330

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No, a simple statement of an obvious truth - reasonable person would want people who are "elite" in the sense of being the best and the brightest.

What are you suggesting, that we go with the incompetent and the worst?
Elitists are not necessarily the best and brightest. They just think they are.
 
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iluvatar5150

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If that is true I agree. However 50% of Americans pay zero taxes.

That isn’t true.

Thats unfair as well. Thats why I'm a true supporter if the flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage. No tax deductions, nothing. You pay a certain percentage and that's it. If you made a million you pay 13%. If you made 40000 you pay 13%. You nake 25000 you pay 13% No one has to spend a lot of time filing thier taxes or hiring tax people to help. The IRS is all but eliminated. Nit completely because there are those who will still cheat.

This is such a silly take. Personal income taxes for most people are fairly easy and could be even easier if people opted not to avail themselves of the deductions available to them. They could be even easier still if the anti-taxers and pro-corporatists (i.e. mostly Republicans) in Congress would allow the IRS to implement policies like mandatory online income reporting and pre-filled tax returns.

The flat tax is the most fair system.
No, it isn't. After regular life expenses like housing, food, etc, it leaves the poor with a smaller proportion of their income than a progressive system.
 
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loveofourlord

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Another example of an elitist attitude.

Whatever happened to no one is better than anyone else? A Harvard grad isn't better than Joe plumber. Those that live in tge cities aren't better than those in tge country.

Elitists aren't better, smarter, more worthy than anyone else. They just think they are. They fly thier jets while telling the rest of us we need to fly commercial or not at all. They demand we cut our carbon footprint and live in community dwellings while they live in one or more mansions and buy up acres and acres of land so they can live alone.

The elites claim of you didn't go to one of their approved elite schools and instead went to a smaller lesser known school you aren't as educated or as smart as people who went to the elite school.

And anyone of us can get an elitist attitude. Conservatives are not exempt from such things. We all need to check ourselves.
They kinda are more worthy by definition for certain things. I wouldn't want Harris to be doing my plumbing, so why would I want a plumber with no formal education and knowledge of the wider world running the country.
 
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loveofourlord

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I'm kinda reminded of this when I hear people whining about elitism.

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Remember the old saying, "Think of how stupid the average person is, then realize half the rest are dumber.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Another example of an elitist attitude.

Whatever happened to no one is better than anyone else? A Harvard grad isn't better than Joe plumber. Those that live in tge cities aren't better than those in tge country.

Elitists aren't better, smarter, more worthy than anyone else. They just think they are. They fly thier jets while telling the rest of us we need to fly commercial or not at all. They demand we cut our carbon footprint and live in community dwellings while they live in one or more mansions and buy up acres and acres of land so they can live alone.

The elites claim of you didn't go to one of their approved elite schools and instead went to a smaller lesser known school you aren't as educated or as smart as people who went to the elite school.

And anyone of us can get an elitist attitude. Conservatives are not exempt from such things. We all need to check ourselves.
You're conflating "better" with "more qualified." No, it's not good to treat experts as "better" people, but it's pretty laughable to suggest that they're less qualified for job in their areas of expertise than some randos off the street. It's textbook anti-intellectualism to scoff at the notion that many of these professional jobs require the sort of technical expertise that comes from years and years of study and practice.
 
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Whyayeman

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Concerning the upcoming election, it will be rigged. Highly doubtful that Trump can ever win. Lots of investigations concerning the 2020 election show the rigging, but little has been cleaned up. They're just going to do it again, and win again. Democracy is only an illusion in the West.
I have been expecting this old lie to be repeated now that the Trump campaign is beginning to flounder.

No rigorous investigations have found a single example of the Democratic Party attempting to rig the 2020 election. That is because it only happened in the imagination of Trump when he first began to believe he might lose.

(There were numerous multiple votes of Republicans but they did not affect any result.)
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I think that a lot of people are trying to vote for people who would make such acts illegal.

And people loved it when he said that he'd change up the tax code. And people voted Trump into office. And guess what, he also didn't close those loopholes, but rather gave out a tax cut that mostly benefited the wealthy. Because why would he cut into his own flesh? It's just smart business.

When the normal working man pays an average of 13 % on his income and the wealthy pay 8 % on their income, then the wealthy need to pay more. At the least, they need to pay the 5 % difference.
It is LEGAL. You would have to elect those with people to change the tax codes. Those people who pay less have more write offs than us because they have companies.
 
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ViaCrucis

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He doesn't consider himself to be an elitist. However, even if he did, the vast majority of people in power who do oppose Donald Trump are indeed elitists in my opinion.

Have you listened to him talk? Well that aside,

Your argument is that even if Trump is an elitist, that's okay, it's "those other elitists" that are the problem?

You haven't thought this through very much.

-CryptoLUtheran
 
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Nithavela

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They aren't loop holes. They are legal deductions that everyone is allowed to take. One shouldn't be upset at people doing things that are perfectly legal. Thete is no such thing as a tax loop hole. They should be calked deductions.
The proper way to say it would be that Congress did not eliminate certain deductions from the tax code. It's not anything a president can do. A president can ask Congress and put political pressure on them, but the president can't do anything to actually change it themselves.

For all the rhetoric from the left about the rich I haven't seen any Democrat president really force Congress to make any substantial change to the tax code to soak the rich. I mean haven't we been talking about this for decades now? With a Republican Congress and Democratic congresses. We been talking about this through Republican and Democratic president's and none of them have done what you want in order to make the rich pay thier fair share.
I absolutely agree. Both parties are funded by big money and so there isn't really any incentive to change things.
 
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Nithavela

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If that is true I agree. However 50% of Americans pay zero taxes. Thats unfair as well.
And the poor are so much easier to go after than the rich, so why even try messing with the wealthy when there are still working poor to squeeze?
 
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JSRG

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The American two-party system is built around the old British principle of a party of the “court” that is in power and a party of the “country” representing those who wish to replace those currently in office, not to overthrow them. A loyal opposition, which wishes to extract concessions or shift the balance of power within the system, is tolerated. A revolutionary opposition, which threatens to shake up the entire system, is not tolerated. Candidates with the support of only a minority of the American elite such as Richard Nixon, Teddy Roosevelt, or Ronald Reagan, are tolerated, though often undermined. Those who are viewed as a threat to the entire system – i.e., Donald Trump – are a different matter.

The American two-party system isn't built around any British principle of a party of a court. It's not even built around anything; it wasn't intentional, it was just an accident of the voting system they set up because unlike nowadays, they didn't have centuries of clear evidence that first past the post voting practically guaranteed two dominant parties.

The Federalist Papers (written pseudonymously by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay; the specific one linked is believed to be by Madison) confidently predict that the size of the United States will cause there to be a lot of different factions:

"The smaller the society, the fewer probably will be the distinct parties and interests composing it; the fewer the distinct parties and interests, the more frequently will a majority be found of the same party; and the smaller the number of individuals composing a majority, and the smaller the compass within which they are placed, the more easily will they concert and execute their plans of oppression. Extend the sphere, and you take in a greater variety of parties and interests; you make it less probable that a majority of the whole will have a common motive to invade the rights of other citizens; or if such a common motive exists, it will be more difficult for all who feel it to discover their own strength, and to act in unison with each other."

So basically, the idea is that since the US is so big, obviously we'll have a lot of different parties and interests rather than just a few dominating it. Clearly, this didn't happen at all. As soon as the unifying force of Washington's presidency was done, the Federalist Party and Democratic-Republican Party became the only factions that mattered in politics, and while they in subsequent years they might have been replaced by different parties, there being just two dominant parties has stayed fairly consistent in US history.

The reason for that is the actual cause of the two-party system, which has nothing to do with any British concepts of courts: The country used, and still largely uses, first-past-the-post, also known as plurality, voting. This is in which everyone votes for one candidate and whoever gets the most votes wins. This strongly favors two parties because of the concerns of vote splitting. Other methods, like proportional representation (people vote for a particular party and seats are allocated based on what percentage each party receives) or even two-round first-past-the-post voting (the way France does it) are much more likely to cause there to be more than two major parties.

So the two-party system in the US isn't built around any kind of ideas of courts in power, it's an accidental effect of a particular voting system that was used because back in the 18th century they didn't, as we do now, have so many years of clear evidence on how voting systems affect political party strength.
 
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Whyayeman

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The American two-party system isn't built around any British principle of a party of a court.
Of course not. The British system is not a two-party system anyway.

Scotland has been ruled at different times by the Scottish Conservative Party, the Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish national Party, all independent of other parties. Then there is Plaid Cymru, the nationalist party in Wales which has been in power not to mention the unintelligible proliferation of parties in Northern Ireland.

The Liberal Democratic Party was in coalition with the Conservative Party from 2010 to 2014. Between 2019 and 2014 the Scottish National Party was the third largest party in the House of Commons.

There has not been any notion of the Party of the Court since the Regency of 1810 to 1820. The comparison is a bit silly really, like much else in the article.
 
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Gene2memE

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Big Don McElroy energy in this thread. "I disagree with these experts. Somebody has to stand up to these experts".

I'll note that the anonymous author doesn't define what they mean by "elites". They just refer to "local elites" as one of the groups who have held social power in the US (along with "a loose alignment of professionals, businessman, politicians"). They also refer to "professional elites in office".

There's no quantifying who these "elites" are, what qualities they have, how they identify, what they want or what they do. According to the author, they're just part of an alignment that seeks to "prevent candidates who do not accept the premises of the system, or, more often, do not understand them, from reaching the presidency".

I suspect this is deliberate - the word "elites" are a shibboleth to certain social/cultural groups. It's a nebulous term that allows different readers to infer whatever they want to.

You could just as easily find and replace the word "elite" with the word "globalist" into this essay, and nothing substantive would change. With some audiences, you could use the word "neoconservative" or "deepstate" in 4 out of 5 usages of the word and the message would remain exactly the same.
 
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