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The Crucifixion Not Friday

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Saber Truth Tiger

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According to the Hebrew Scriptures (Masoretic Text), Nisan 15 was never designated as a Sabbath. There were three types of Sabbaths: 1) the weekly Sabbath, 2) the land Sabbath where the land had to lay unused every seventh year 3) the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), an annual Sabbath that fell in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar. The weekly Sabbath and Yom Kippur not only had being called Sabbath in common, but both of them were the only holy convocations that prescribed the death penalty for breaking them. The rest did not demand the death penalty for breaking them. They are also the only two holy convocations that used the expression SHABBATH SHABBATHOWN, and they both are the only ones that forbade ANY work. The other six forbade only *servile* work.

There were seven annual holy convocations in the Jewish Year and six of them forbade only servile work and were never called Sabbaths. There is a reason why the Day of Atonement was called a Sabbath, and the others weren't. It forbade ANY work, not just servile work, just like the weekly Sabbath. Leviticus 16:29, 23:28, 30, 31; Numbers 29:7.

For example, refer to Exodus 20:10, 31:14,15; Leviticus 23:3, Deuteronomy 5:14; Jeremiah 17:22 to see the weekly Sabbath forbade ANY work too.

Notice the Day of Atonement and the weekly Sabbath both prohibit ANY work. So the Day of Atonement has the same definition as the weekly Sabbath.

Furthermore, in every place in the Hebrew Scriptures where "the Sabbath" is found it refers to the weekly Sabbath. So too, apparently in the Greek Scriptures (New Testament).

There are, in Leviticus 23 of the KJV, four holy convocations in the sacred seventh month of the Jewish Year (Tishri) that are called Sabbaths in the KJV but three of them come from a different Hebrew word for Sabbath (SHABBATHOWN) than the weekly Sabbath (SHABBATH). The Day of Atonement uses the same word for Sabbath as the weekly Sabbath. The SHABBATHOWN is spelled similarly to the weekly Sabbath but it means "REST" and is never used for a holy convocation that forbids ANY work. It is even translated as REST elsewhere in the KJV and is used sometimes with the Hebrew word Sabbath as in "A Sabbath of REST (Exodus 16:23, 31:15, 35:2, Leviticus 16:31, 23:3, 32; 25:4,5. Only the weekly Sabbath and the Day of Atonement are paired in this manner, SHABBATH SHABBATHOWN and only those two Sabbaths are capital offenses when broken. The other six holy convocations do not prescribe the death penalty for failure to keep it properly.

Just keep in mind if a holy convocation forbids ANY work, it is a Sabbath. If it forbids only servile work, it is not a Sabbath, it is just a rest day. This is according to the Hebrew Scriptures. If used in conjunction with the weekly Sabbath it is a "Shabbath Shabbathown" (Sabbath of Rest). The non-Sabbath holy convocations are rest days like the sabbath, but they forbid only *servile* work. They are called SHABBATHOWN without the SHABBATH preceding them.

Even in the Septuagint (LXX), in Leviticus 23 those three holy convocations in the seventh month that the KJV translates as Sabbaths are NOT called Sabbaths in the Hebrew. They are, however, called ANAPAUSIS in the LXX, which in Greek means "REST". ANAPAUSIS is also used in the Christian Greek Scriptures (the New Testament) and it means REST there too (G372).

There are places in the KJV Bible where the new moons, sabbaths, set feasts, solemnities, solemn feasts, assemblies, and such are mentioned together. These can be found in I Chronicles 23:31; II Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:31,33; Hosea 2:11, Lamentations 2:6, Ezekiel 44:24, 45:17.

After these verses were written they remained the same until perhaps about the time of the Babylonian Captivity or later, or perhaps the third century BC when the Jews in Alexandria, Egypt began translating the Hebrew into Greek. Nisan 15 was a non-Sabbath holy convocation until the Jews went into Babylonian captivity and for seventy years, they were in Babylon they observed their Nisan 15 as a Sabbath because Nisan 15 was a Sabbath to the Babylonians. The translation of the Septuagint carried the new view of Nisan 15 being the sabbath. Check Leviticus 23:11, 15 for this. The Jewish translators of the Septuagint took the Hebrew words “on the morrow after the sabbath” in Leviticus 23:11 and changed them to “on the morrow of the first day" (of the Feast)”. This means the first Day of Unleavened Bread (Nisan 15) would hitherto be celebrated as a Sabbath by the Pharisees and later rabbinical authorities, as well as their descendants. The morrow of the first day would be the morning of Nisan 16, the day the Omer would be waved in Judaism. The LXX in Leviticus 23:11 is more of an interpretation than a translation. Once the Pharisees gained control of the Temple for good the Nisan 15 Sabbath has been a Jewish tradition ever since.

Hence the waving of the sheaf would always occur on Nisan 16 under the Pharisean and rabbinical reckoning. Since “on the morrow of the first day (of the Feast) is the referent for Sabbath in Leviticus 23:15 then it follows that Nisan 15 was called a Sabbath by the Pharisees and later the Rabbis.

The Sadducees in the first century BCE and early first century CE disagreed with this view. They were known as the Torah literalists of their day, and they did not call the holy convocations "Sabbaths". The Sadducees did count the fifty-day countdown from the waving of the Omer to Shavuot (Pentecost) and they controlled temple worship when Jesus was alive. So, by the time Jesus was crucified early in the first century AD Sadducee Jews waved the Omer every year on the day after the weekly Sabbath that followed the Passover meal.

The Rabbinical authorities, led by the Pharisees insisted the correct day to wave the Omer was the day after the first day of Unleavened Bread and to start the countdown from that day. However, they did not regain control of the Temple until about 20 years after Jesus died. The Sadducees controlled the Temple worship when Jesus was alive and they observed the waving on the Omer the first Sunday after the Passover Seder. The Pharisaic Jews thus reverted to observing the waving of the Omer on Nisan 16 after they regained control of the Temple.

Josephus relates this practice in Antiquities of the Jews in Book III, Chapter 10, verse 5. Read the following:

“But in the month of Xanthicus; which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year; on the fourteenth day of the Lunar month, when the sun is in Aries; for on this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians: the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt: and which was called the Passover. And so we do celebrate this Passover in companies, and leave nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days: wherein they feed on unleavened bread. On every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the kid of the goats, which is added to all the rest, for sins: for it is intended as a feast for the Priest on every one of those days. BUT ON THE SECOND DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, WHICH IS THE SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, THEY FIRST PARTAKE OF THE FRUITS OF THE EARTH: FOR BEFORE THAT DAY THEY DO NOT TOUCH THEM (Capitals mine).

It is important to note that the observance of the Passover Josephus describes was the way it was when he was writing Antiquities of the Jews in the 94 CE. The Jews no longer had the Temple to worship in, so they partook of the Passover in companies and made their own sacrifices. Before 70 CE the Jews traveled to the Temple and the priests did the sacrificing. Now, as Josephus wrote this, his people kept the Passover in companies and would sacrifice their own animals like the Jews did before the priesthood was established. This is the Pharisee reckoning of celebrating Nisan 15 as a Sabbath without the Temple and where there was no Sadducee reckoning. On the 16th day of the month, they partook of the fruits of the earth. I find it plausible they were not in Jerusalem when they did this, but back on their own farms. The Temple had been destroyed in 70 CE and Josephus is writing in the present tense when describing this Passover celebration. This was the way the Jews celebrated it in 94 CE.

Some claim that the Sadducees controlled Temple worship all the way up to the destruction of the Temple. However, according to a Jewish document, the transfer of power occurred during the lifetime of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai who lived from 30 BCE -90 CE. Yohanan was appointed president (nasi) of the Sanhedrin in 50 CE. So, the Sadducee's controlled the Temple worship when Jesus was alive. Here is a piece from Wikipedia. It’s interesting to note the nasi did not always have to be the high priest.

From AI on the internet:
During the Second Temple period (c. 530 BCE–70 CE), the high priest could also serve as the nasi, or president, of the Sanhedrin. The position of nasi was created around 191 BCE when the Sanhedrin lost faith in the high priest's ability to lead. As nasi, the high priest was responsible for state affairs, while the av bet din, or "father of the court", was responsible for synagogue affairs. The Sanhedrin was a Jewish judicial and administrative body made up of local elites, including members of the high-priestly family, scribes, and lay elders.

Among the dates penned in Megillat Taanit and which were all forbidden to fast thereon, and for others also forbidden to lament the dead thereon, are to be noted the following:
  • "And from the eighth day thereof (i.e. the lunar month of Nisan) until the end of the [last] festival day [of Passover], the Feast of Weeks (Shavu'ot) was restored, [being days on which] it is prohibited to mourn" [Original Aramaic: ומתמניא ביה ועד סוף מועדא איתותב חגא דשבועייא די לא למספד‎]
[Excursus: This episode has been explained by Rashi in Babylonian Talmud (Taanit 17b, s.v. מתמניא ביה‎) to mean the vindication of the Pharisees over the Boethusians in the days of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, when the Boethusians held the errant view that the people of Israel are to only begin counting the seven weeks, or 49 days of the Counting of the Omer, after the first Sabbath that follows the first Festival Day of Passover, which method would invariably cause a delay in the counting, and push back further the Feast of Weeks (Shavu'ot) which falls on the 50th day. According to the Pharisees, on the other hand, whose opinion is Halacha, the Counting of the Omer begins immediately following the first Festival Day of Passover, which happens to be the Sabbath day of rest spoken of in Leviticus 23:15, that is to say, Passover itself, and they begin the counting on the following day, on the 16th day of the lunar month Nisan, in which case the festival day known as the Feast of Weeks will always fall on the 6th day of the lunar month Sivan. When Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai prevailed over the Boethusians at this time, the days were commemorated as a semi-holiday; Shavu'ot being restored to its former time of observance.][20][21]
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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Let’s read, in context, the difference between THE SABBATH and “the first day” of the feast of Unleavened Bread. First, let’s look at the King James Version, which was translated from Hebrew:

Leviticus 23 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is THE SABBATH of rest, a holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is THE SABBATH of the LORD in all your dwellings.

This clearly is speaking of the weekly Sabbath and not any co-called annual Sabbath. Leviticus 23 continues...

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is a holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after THE SABBATH the priest shall wave it.

The referent of this Sabbath is not the annual Sabbath Nisan 15 but the weekly Sabbath of verse three. There is no mention of an annual Sabbath here. The only Sabbath referred to prior to this verse is the weekly Sabbath in verse three.

Let's continue with Leviticus 23:15...

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after THE SABBATH, (not the so-called annual Sabbath but the weekly Sabbath) from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; SEVEN SABBATHS shall be complete:16 Even unto the MORROW OF THE SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days...

See how that reads, in context? The Sabbath in verses 11 and 15 have as their referent THE SABBATH in verse three. That’s context. Not a word about an annual Sabbath. Now, let’s read verse 16 in the KJV.

16 Even unto the morrow after the SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. The morrow of the seventh day is fifty days.

Here are over 50 translations from the Bible Gateway website that translates this passage.

Leviticus 23:16 - Bible Gateway

Let's now look at the Septuagint's rendering of these verses.

BRENTON'S SEPTUAGINT TRANSLATION

Leviticus 23:1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say unto them, The feasts of the Lord which ye shall call holy assemblies, these are my feasts.

3 Six days shalt thou do works, but on the seventh day is THE SABBATH; a rest, a holy convocation to the Lord: thou shalt not do any work, it is A SABBATH to the Lord in all your dwellings.

So far, so good. This clearly refers to the weekly Sabbath, not an annual Sabbath. Now let's continue reading.

4 These are the feasts to the Lord, holy convocations, which ye shall call in their seasons. 5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between the evening times is the Lord's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread. 7 And the first day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work. 8 And ye shall offer whole-burnt offerings to the Lord seven days, and the seventh day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work.

9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, When ye shall enter into the land which I give you, and reap the harvest of it, then shall ye bring a sheaf, the first-fruits of your harvest, to the priest; 11 and he shall lift up the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you. ON THE MORROW OF THE FIRST DAY the priest shall lift it up.

See the change? The translators changed "ON THE MORROW OF THE SABBATH" in Hebrew to "ON THE MORROW OF THE FIRST DAY". Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread (Nisan 15) becomes the day preceding the wave sheaf, rather than the weekly Sabbath. That means under Rabbinical usage the wave sheaf would always end up on Nisan 16 instead of Sunday. Under the rules of the Hebrew Bible and the teaching of the Sadducees, the wave sheaf would always happen the day after the weekly Sabbath. Then one would count seven sabbaths (seven weeks) to the 49th day of the fifty-day count. The day that followed the seventh Sabbath would be another holy convocation that the Jews celebrated, Shavuot.

The Septuagint reads further:

12 And ye shall offer on the day on which ye bring the sheaf, a lamb without blemish of a year old for a whole-burnt-offering to the Lord. 13 And its meat-offering two tenth portions of fine flour mingled with oil: it is a sacrifice to the Lord, a smell of sweet savor to the Lord, and its drink-offering the fourth part of a hin of wine. 14 And ye shall not eat bread, or the new parched corn, until this same day, until ye offer the sacrifices to your God: it is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall number to yourselves FROM THE DAY AFTER THE SABBATH, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, SEVEN FULL WEEKS: 16 until the morrow after the LAST WEEK ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord.

See how changing SEVEN SABBATHS in the Hebrew to SEVEN FULL WEEKS in the Septuagint removes the need to count seven full weekly Sabbaths and instead opens the door to count any day of the week seven times? The Jews who used rabbinical reckoning thus did not have to count seven weekly Sabbaths but seven Tuesdays, Wednesdays, or any other day of the week.

Now, for verse 16 in the Septuagint:

16 until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord.

In the KJV it says "Count fifty days to the day AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH" but the Septuagint changes SABBATH to WEEK. This way when the rabbis started the count from the day after Nisan 15 they didn't have to wait for the weekly Sabbath to begin the count to Shavuot, they could begin immediately. If Nisan 16 was a Wednesday then Shavuot would be a Wednesday. Does anyone see a pattern here?
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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Concerning the word “preparation” (PARASKEUE) in the KJV there were two preparation days in the time of Jesus. There was the weekly preparation for the Sabbath and the annual preparation for the Passover. The Passover had to be prepared for because all leaven had to be cleaned out of the houses the Jews lived in. That required moving furniture around, cleaning and inspection. They also had to prepare for the Passover meal.

Preparation is used for the sixth day of the week in the Gospels and prosabbaton is used for the day before the weekly Sabbath as well (see Mark 15:42).

Παρασκευή

PARASKEUE Preparation

From Bible Hub
Strong's Greek: 3904. παρασκευή (paraskeué) -- 6 Occurrences

Matthew 27:62 N-AFS
GRK: μετὰ τὴν παρασκευήν συνήχθησαν οἱ
NAS: after the preparation, the chief priests
KJV: followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests
INT: after the preparation were gathered together the

Mark 15:42 N-NFS
GRK: ἐπεὶ ἦν παρασκευή ὅ ἐστιν
NAS: because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,
KJV: it was the preparation, that
INT: since it was [the] Preparation that is

Luke 23:54 N-GFS
GRK: ἡμέρα ἦν παρασκευῆς καὶ σάββατον
NAS: It was the preparation day,
KJV: was the preparation, and
INT: [the] day it was of preparation and Sabbath

John 19:14 N-NFS
GRK: ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα
NAS: Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover;
KJV: it was the preparation of the passover,
INT: it was now the day of preparation of the passover

John 19:31 N-NFS
GRK: Ἰουδαῖοι ἐπεὶ παρασκευὴ ἦν ἵνα
NAS: because it was the day of preparation, so
KJV: it was the preparation, that
INT: [the] Jews because [the] preparation it was that

John 19:42 N-AFS
GRK: διὰ τὴν παρασκευὴν τῶν Ἰουδαίων
NAS: of the Jewish day of preparation, since
KJV: of the Jews' preparation [day]; for
INT: on account of the preparation of the Jews

The preparation for the weekly Sabbath, however, fell on Friday and it was translated in various ways in the literature of the time. For example, the capitalized words below:

The Didache 8:1 reads: “But as for your fasts, let them not be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth days of the week, but do ye fast on the fourth and SIXTH days…” Kirsopp Lake’s translates the second and fifth days as Mondays and Thursdays and the fourth and sixth days as Wednesdays and Fridays.

Polycarp 7:1 reads: “So taking the lad with them, on the FRIDAY about the supper hour, the gendarmes and horsemen went forth with their accustomed arms, hastening as against a robber.”

Antiquities of the Jews 16.6.2 reads: “and they be not obliged to go before any judge on the Sabbath day, nor on the day of the PREPARATION to it, after the ninth hour.”

Moreover, the Greek word prosabbaton in Mark 15:42 refers to the day before the weekly Sabbath and not the day before a Passover Sabbath.

προσάββατον

prosabbaton

Mark 15:42 N-NNS

GRK: ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον
NAS: it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,
KJV: that is, the day before the sabbath,
INT: that is [the day] before Sabbath

Greek Concordance: προσάββατον (prosabbaton) -- 1 Occurrence

It is used elsewhere in ancient Greek as well.

In Judith 8:6 we read:
And she fasted all the days of her widowhood, save the eves of the Sababths, and the Sabbaths, and the eves of the new moons, and the new moons and the feasts and solemn days of the house of Israel.

Prosabbaton is also used in 2 Maccabees 8:26

II Maccabees 8:25-26 reads: “And they took their money that came to buy them, and pursued them far but lacking time they returned: For it was the DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH, and therefore they would no longer pursue them.

It was the day before the Sabbath, and for that reason they could not continue the pursuit.

For what its worth, prosabbaton referred to the day BEFORE the weekly Sabbath. There is no case of prosabbaton referring to Nisan 15 in literature of that time period, unless it fell on the weekly Sabbath. Whenever it is found it always precedes the weekly Sabbath.
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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The expression "THE Sabbath" always refers to the weekly Sabbath in the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures. Here are the expressions "The Sabbath" as they appear in the Apocrypha.

The Sabbath is found 18 times in the Apocrypha and when preceded by the definite article it refers to the weekly Sabbath.

Verses with the word sabbath in the Apocrypha (18 verses):

See here: Art and the Bible - concordance sabbath, the Apocrypha - page 1

Judith 10:2
She rose where she had fallen down, and called her maid, and went down into the house in the which she abode in the sabbath days, and in her feast days,

1 Maccabees 1:43
Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.

1 Maccabees 2:32
They pursued after them a great number, and having overtaken them, they camped against them, and made war against them on the sabbath day.

1 Maccabees 2:34
But they said, We will not come forth, neither will we do the king's commandment, to profane the sabbath day.

1 Maccabees 2:38
So they rose up against them in battle on the sabbath, and they slew them, with their wives and children and their cattle, to the number of a thousand people.

1 Maccabees 2:41
At that time therefore they decreed, saying, Whosoever shall come to make battle with us on the sabbath day, we will fight against him; neither will we die all, as our brethren that were murdered in the secret places.

1 Maccabees 9:34
Which when Bacchides understood, he came near to Jordan with all his host upon the sabbath day.

1 Maccabees 9:43
Now when Bacchides heard hereof, he came on the sabbath day unto the banks of Jordan with a great power.

2 Maccabees 5:25
Who coming to Jerusalem, and pretending peace, did forbear till the holy day of the sabbath, when taking the Jews keeping holy day, he commanded his men to arm themselves.

2 Maccabees 5:26
And so he slew all them that were gone to the celebrating of the sabbath, and running through the city with weapons slew great multitudes.

2 Maccabees 6:6
Neither was it lawful for a man to keep sabbath days or ancient fasts, or to profess himself at all to be a Jew.

2 Maccabees 6:11
And others, that had run together into caves near by, to keep the sabbath day secretly, being discovered by Philip, were all burnt together, because they made a conscience to help themselves for the honour of the most sacred day.

2 Maccabees 8:26
For it was the day before the sabbath, and therefore they would no longer pursue them.

2 Maccabees 8:27
So when they had gathered their armour together, and spoiled their enemies, they occupied themselves about the sabbath, yielding exceeding praise and thanks to the Lord, who had preserved them unto that day, which was the beginning of mercy distilling upon them.

2 Maccabees 8:28
And after the sabbath, when they had given part of the spoils to the maimed, and the widows, and orphans, the residue they divided among themselves and their servants.

2 Maccabees 12:38
So Judas gathered his host, and came into the city of Odollam, And when the seventh day came, they purified themselves, as the custom was, and kept the sabbath in the same place.

2 Maccabees 15:1
But Nicanor, hearing that Judas and his company were in the strong places about Samaria, resolved without any danger to set upon them on the sabbath day.

2 Maccabees 15:3
Then the most ungracious wretch demanded, if there were a Mighty one in heaven, that had commanded the sabbath day to be kept.
 
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“THE SABBATH” In the Hebrew Bible. It always refers to the weekly Sabbath. KJV

· Exodus 16:26
Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none.” 1

· Exodus 16:29
See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 2

· Exodus 20:8
“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 3

· Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. 4

· Exodus 31:14
Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 5

· Exodus 31:15
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 6

· Exodus 31:16
So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’ 8

· Exodus 35:3
You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day.” 9

· Leviticus 23:11
He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 10

· Leviticus 23:15
‘You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. 11

· Numbers 15:32
Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 12

· Numbers 28:9
‘Then on the sabbath day two male lambs one year old without defect, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering, and its drink offering: 13

· Deuteronomy 5:12
‘Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. 14

· Deuteronomy 5:15
You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day. 15

· 2 Kings 11:5
He commanded them, saying, “This is the thing that you shall do: one third of you, who come in on the sabbath and keep watch over the king’s house 16

· 2 Kings 11:7
Two parts of you, even all who go out on the sabbath, shall also keep watch over the house of the Lord for the king. 17

· 2 Kings 11:9
So the captains of hundreds did according to all that Jehoiada the priest commanded. And each one of them took his men who were to come in on the sabbath, with those who were to go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest. 19

· 2 Kings 16:18
The covered way for the sabbath which they had built in the house, and the outer entry of the king, he removed from the house of the Lord because of the king of Assyria. 20

· 2 Chronicles 23:4
This is the thing which you shall do: one third of you, of the priests and Levites who come in on the sabbath, shall be gatekeepers, 21

· 2 Chronicles 23:8
So the Levites and all Judah did according to all that Jehoiada the priest commanded. And each one of them took his men who were to come in on the sabbath, with those who were to go out on the sabbath, for Jehoiada the priest did not dismiss any of the divisions. 23

· Nehemiah 10:31
As for the peoples of the land who bring wares or any grain on the sabbath day to sell, we will not buy from them on the sabbath or a holy day; and we will forego the crops the seventh year and the exaction of every debt. 25

· Nehemiah 13:15
In those days I saw in Judah some who were treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sacks of grain and loading them on donkeys, as well as wine, grapes, figs and all kinds of loads, and they brought them into Jerusalem on the sabbath day. So I admonished them on the day they sold food. 27

· Nehemiah 13:16
Also men of Tyre were living there who imported fish and all kinds of merchandise, and sold them to the sons of Judah on the sabbath, even in Jerusalem. 28

· Nehemiah 13:17
Then I reprimanded the nobles of Judah and said to them, “What is this evil thing you are doing, by profaning the sabbath day? 29

· Nehemiah 13:18
Did not your fathers do the same, so that our God brought on us and on this city all this trouble? Yet you are adding to the wrath on Israel by profaning the sabbath.” 30

· Nehemiah 13:19
It came about that just as it grew dark at the gates of Jerusalem before the sabbath, I commanded that the doors should be shut and that they should not open them until after the sabbath. Then I stationed some of my servants at the gates so that no load would enter on the sabbath day. 33

· Nehemiah 13:21
Then I warned them and said to them, “Why do you spend the night in front of the wall? If you do so again, I will use force against you.” From that time on they did not come on the sabbath. 34

· Nehemiah 13:22
And I commanded the Levites that they should purify themselves and come as gatekeepers to sanctify the sabbath day. For this also remember me, O my God, and have compassion on me according to the greatness of Your lovingkindness. 35

· Isaiah 56:2
“How blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who takes hold of it; Who keeps from profaning the sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”36

· Isaiah 56:6
“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant; 37

· Isaiah 58:13
“If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot From doing your own pleasure on My holy day, And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word, 39

· Jeremiah 17:21
Thus says the Lord, “Take heed for yourselves, and do not carry any load on the sabbath day or bring anything in through the gates of Jerusalem. 40

· Jeremiah 17:22
You shall not bring a load out of your houses on the sabbath day nor do any work, but keep the sabbath day holy, as I commanded your forefathers. 42

· Jeremiah 17:24
“But it will come about, if you listen attentively to Me,” declares the Lord, “to bring no load in through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but to keep the sabbath day holy by doing no work on it, 44

· Jeremiah 17:27
But if you do not listen to Me to keep the sabbath day holy by not carrying a load and coming in through the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates and it will devour the palaces of Jerusalem and not be quenched.”’” 46

· Ezekiel 46:1
‘Thus says the Lord God, “The gate of the inner court facing east shall be shut the six working days; but it shall be opened on the sabbath day and opened on the day of the new moon. 47

· Ezekiel 46:4
The burnt offering which the prince shall offer to the Lord on the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish; 48

· Ezekiel 46:12
When the prince provides a freewill offering, a burnt offering, or peace offerings as a freewill offering to the Lord, the gate facing east shall be opened for him. And he shall provide his burnt offering and his peace offerings as he does on the sabbath day. Then he shall go out, and the gate shall be shut after he goes out. 49

· Amos 8:5
saying, “When will the new moon be over, So that we may sell grain, And the sabbath, that we may open the wheat market, To make the bushel smaller and the shekel bigger, And to cheat with dishonest scales, 50
 
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Here is where "the Sabbath" appears in the New Testament.

It always falls on the weekly Sabbath.

Grammatical notes follows the verse. The first letter indicates case, second letter indicates gender, and the third letter denotes whether it is single or plural. Hence, DNP is Dative, Neuter, Plural and ANS is Accusative, Neuter, and Singular and so forth.

1. Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. DNP
  1. Matthew 12:5 Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? DNP, ANS
  2. Matthew 12:8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” GNS
  3. Matthew 12:10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus, asking, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—so that they might accuse Him. DNP
  4. Matthew 12:11 And He said to them, “What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? DNP
  5. Matthew 12:12 How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” DNP
  6. Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. GNP
  7. Mark 1:21 They *went into Capernaum; and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and began to teach. DNP
  8. Mark 2:23* And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. (-the) DNP
  9. Mark 2:24 The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” DNP
  10. Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. NNS ANS
  11. Mark 2:28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” GNS
  12. Mark 3:1 He entered again into a synagogue; and a man was there whose hand was withered.
  13. Mark 3:2 They were watching Him to see if He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. DNP
  14. Mark 3:4 And He *said to them, “Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill?” But they kept silent. DNP
  15. Mark 6:2* When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? (-the) GNS
  16. Mark 15:42 When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, *prosabbaton*
  17. Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. GNS
  18. Luke 4:16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. GNP
  19. Luke 4:31 And He came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and He was teaching them on the Sabbath; DNP
  20. Luke 6:1* Now it happened that He was passing through some grainfields on a Sabbath; and His disciples were picking the heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands, and eating the grain. (- the) DNS
  21. Luke 6:2 But some of the Pharisees said, “Why do you do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” DNP
  22. Luke 6:5 And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” GNS
  23. Luke 6:7 The scribes and the Pharisees were watching Him closely to see if He healed on the Sabbath, so that they might find reason to accuse Him. DNS
  24. Luke 6:9 And Jesus said to them, “I ask you, is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to destroy it?” DNS
  25. Luke 13:10* And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. (-the) DNS
  26. Luke 13:14 But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, “There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day.” DNS GNS
  27. Luke 13:15 But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him? DNS
  28. Luke 13:16 And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?” GNS
  29. Luke 14:1 It happened that when He went into the house of one of the leaders of the Pharisees on the Sabbath to eat bread, they were watching Him closely. DNS
  30. Luke 14:3 And Jesus answered and spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?” DNS
  31. Luke 23:54* It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. (-the) NNS
  32. Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment. ANS
  33. John 5:9 Immediately the man became well, and picked up his pallet and began to walk. Now it was the Sabbath on that day. NNS
  34. John 5:10* So the Jews were saying to the man who was cured, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not permissible for you to carry your pallet.” (-the) NNS
  35. John 5:16 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. DNS
  36. John 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. ANS
  37. John 7:22 For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. DNS
  38. John 7:23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath? DNS DNS
  39. John 9:16 Therefore some of the Pharisees were saying, “This man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath.” But others were saying, “How can a man who is a sinner perform such signs?” And there was a division among them. ANS
  40. John 19:31* Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (-that) GNS DNS
  41. Acts 13:14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. GNP
  42. Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled. GNP
 
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REVELATION LAD writes:
Thank you.
I see no point in a debate. We are both locked into our positions. And, in my opinion, you are unwilling to acknowledge valid objections.

SABER TRUTH responds:
I am open to valid objections but so far I haven’t seen any from you. You are right about one thing. We are both locked into our positions.

REVELATION LAD writes:
While you can make a case for inclusive counting, you are unwilling to apply a Biblical standard to the practice. This is my main objection to your position: you claim the law must be taken literally with regard to not working but you say the law need not be taken literally in counting days.

SABER TRUTH replies:
It is the Bible standard that leads me to inclusive counting. Count the days literally if you want, but count them INCLUSIVELY. That’s the way they were understood in their day.

REVELATION LAD writes:
You maintain an unwavering insistence Nisan 15 is not a Sabbath based on the restriction of servile work vs no work.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
My unwavering insistence that Nisan 15 is not a Sabbath is based on a literal interpretation of the Law in Leviticus 23. According to Leviticus 23 Nisan 15 is not called a Sabbath and forbids servile work. The same goes for five other holy convocations which prohibit servile work and are not called Sabbaths. There are only two holy convocations that forbid ANY work, and they are both called SABBATHS. They are also the only two that enjoin the death penalty for breaking them. That is why I insist that Nisan 15 is not called a Sabbath in scripture.

REVELATION LAD writes:
To which I reply, fine, when is a Sabbath, or a prohibition of servile work ever treated as a partial day?

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
If you are born in the late afternoon of the holy convocation, that day is counted as day one. The day is a 24-hour day but if you are born late in the day, that day is called the first day of your life, even if only two or three hours have passed. The sun sets and that is the beginning of the second day. If you die on the morning of the third day, it is considered the third day of your life. All days are 24 hours long, but if event X happens at noon, then that is the first day of that event, beginning at that time. Two days later is the third day, even in the morning. Read Exodus 19:11-16.
What is Inclusive Reckoning?

REVELATION LAD writes:
When is part of Nisan 15 ever counted as a full day? When is a weekly Sabbath ever counted as a partial day?

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
The day Jesus died was a full day, but he died at 3 pm on that day and he was in the tomb only a short period of time on that first day. That day was counted as the first day of the three-day count and the third day (Sunday) was only a few hours old before he rose from the dead but the testimony of scripture is Jesus rose from the dead the third day even though he did not spend a full day in the tomb.

REVELATION LAD
When are the 7 days of Unleavened Bread counted inclusively?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
They are all counted inclusively. Days 1 through 7 come out to seven days. The 7 days of Unleavened Bread are not counted exclusively. Otherwise, Nisan 15 to Nisan 16 would be one day (exclusive counting) and Nisan 21 to 22 would be the seventh day exclusively.

REVELATION LAD
When are the 50 days to Shavuot counted inclusively? The answer from the law is never.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The 50 days to Shavuot were always counted inclusively. On the first Sunday after the Passover Seder was the first day of the 50-day count and the 50th day of the count was Sunday. That’s inclusive counting. So, your answer is incorrect.

REVELATION LAD
But you say, the law does not matter when counting days. People are free to count as they please, but under no circumstance can they call Nisan 15, Sabbath. My head is spinning.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The Law does matter when counting days. If it didn’t, then why would the Law specify 50 days in the count from the waving of the Omer to the celebration of Shavuot, the seventh Sunday after the beginning of the waving of the Omer? People are not free to count as they please if they are to count according to Leviticus 23. And yes, if you are scripturally correct, you will not call Nisan 15 a Sabbath. If you can pick and choose your Sabbaths, then why did Yahweh inspire Moses to write Leviticus 23 as he did? He specifies two holy convocations as Sabbaths, with no work to be done on the day, then specifies six holy convocations as non-Sabbath days that forbid only servile work. Why would Yahweh inspire Moses to do this, if people could count as they please? Yahweh commanded people to put to death anyone who broke the Sabbaths and yet did not sentence to death anyone who did not keep the other six annual holy convocations. Maybe you need to sit down and take a breather if your head is spinning.

REVELATION LAD
With respect to the time in the tomb, first you claim Nisan 15 is not a Sabbath based on the Law, then you say both Nisan 15, and the weekly Sabbath were counted inclusively.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
That’s because they were. Friday afternoon was the first day. Sabbath was the second day. That’s two days inclusive. Show me where you get Friday afternoon and Saturday are counted exclusively as one day. But the year Jesus died Nisan 15 fell on the weekly Sabbath. So the Sabbath AND Nisan 15 both fell on the second day of Jesus’s death.

REVELATION LAD
In other words, the prohibition of servile work disqualifies Nisan 15 from being a Sabbath, and, apparently because it is not a Sabbath, it can be counted inclusively, but it is never observed inclusively regardless of the prohibition of work.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
No, you do not understand. The prohibition of servile work DOES disqualify Nisan 15 from being a Sabbath. But that doesn’t mean it is inclusive. It is counted inclusively because that is just the way Jews counted days back then. The rest of what you wrote makes no sense. It can be counted inclusively regardless of whether it is a Sabbath or not. You state that it is never observed inclusively regardless of the prohibition of work. You offer no proof for that statement.

REVELATION LAD
This is nonsense. There is nothing to debate if you are going to demand literal adherence to the Law with respect to terminology and then ignore the Law in terms of how many hours the law must be obeyed.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Do you believe if Yahweh demands literal adherence to the law that we should count exclusively? You know what exclusive counting is, don’t you? If Jesus died on Friday, afternoon time, then it wouldn’t be the first day complete until Saturday afternoon time. However, there is no evidence in all of scripture to support this method of counting days.

REVELATION LAD
Imagine someone starting to observe the law at sunset thinking they will avoid work for a full day but counting a full day after a few hours. When they wake up in the morning, they are free to work because they have counted the day inclusively. I don't think so.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
You don’t understand simple math. Whenever someone counted days in the Bible they were counted inclusively. When the sunset on the 6th day of the week, Friday, the Sabbath would begin. It would be inclusive all the way to the following sun set. If you accidentally fell and split your head open, that would still be the seventh day of the week, Saturday, but it would be the first day of your injury. Saturday the sun sets and the first day of the week begins, inclusively, it would be the third day since the 6th day but it would only be the second day since your injury. The days are counted inclusively. So, if someone is going to keep the Sabbath scripturally, they would keep the whole day but if someone gave birth at noon time, that day would count as a one day even though the infant was alive after birth six hours of the Sabbath. And the sunset would make the next day of the baby’s life the second day.

REVELATION LAD
This is even more absurd than rejecting the Passover/Unleavened Bread terminology. People are not going to call Nisan 15 a Sabbath because only servile work is prohibited but these same people are going to count part of a day of no servile work a full day?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
You do not comprehend simple math. If you are an adult as the first day of unleavened Bread begins, then in order to keep it correctly, you would keep the entire seven days, night and day. But if you lost a limb on the afternoon of the third day, that would be the first day since you lost your limb, even though it wasn’t a complete day. Near the end of the seventh day of Unleavened Bread would be the fifth day of your injury, even though neither the start date or end date were yet completed.

REVELATION LAD
Regardless of how you label Nisan 15, you have two consecutive days on which work is prohibited. People are not going to think they have satisfied a day of no work after the first 2 hours.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Regardless how you label Nisan 15? Are you serious? If Nisan 15 is a day free of servile work only then you don’t have two days in which no work is prohibited, but one, the weekly Sabbath. People with any sense and already devout believers in Yahweh wouldn’t refrain from work just two hours then start working. A Gentile might but not a Yahweh fearing Jew. But, if he fell sick on the afternoon of the day of rest, that would be the first day of his illness and two days later would be the third day of his illness, in the morning.

REVELATION LAD
How can you claim people who are obeying the law and not working (whichever type of work) are going to disregard the law and consider a part of a day as a full day? And if they are going to obey the law and rest according to the commandment, how can you think they are going to count just a part of the day as a full day? Do you see how absurd the reasoning of counting inclusively during the Passover-Unleavened Bread is?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
If people were to do something that foolish they deserve whatever punishment they get. But even though the Sabbath is a 24-hour event, if they are killed on the afternoon of the Sabbath, that would be the first day of their death even though it is not a complete day. Two days later is the third day, even though it is not a complete day. Read Exodus 19:11-16 and see the morning of the third day is called the third day even though it was not yet complete.

REVELATION LAD
There is simply no way you count Nisan 15 and a weekly Sabbath as partial days, and it is absurd to claim people are going to observe full days of no work and at the same time count those days inclusively. To say nothing of the mindset of having to observe 7 consecutive days on avoiding leaven but thinking those days can be satisfied counting inclusively.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Yes, you can count them as partial days. A true believer will worship Yahweh the entire 24-hour day, both night and day and in that sense it a whole day. But, if someone was raised from the dead early in the morning of that day, it would still be counted as the third day.
 
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REVELATION LAD writes;

I see your responses but it simply reinforces what I said. You maintain days are counted inclusively because that is the way it was done at the time. This is exactly my point. People counted inclusively, despite the law which says days are sunset to sunset.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Yes, the days were counted inclusively, sunset to sunset. And, if an event happened during that day, that day would be the first day of that event. If an event happened on the sixth day of the week, then that event was the first day of the event, counted inclusively with the next two days. On the second day later, the event of the first day would be in its third day.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Just like people called Unleavened Bread, "Passover" despite the law which says it is Unleavened Bread.

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
Yes, the days of Unleavened Bread were called “Passover” but this in no manner meant that Nisan 15 is a Sabbath.

REVELATION LAD answers:
But these same people who ignore the law with respect to counting days and who ignore the law with respect to Unleavened Bread, do not call Nisan 15 "Sabbath" because the law only prohibits servile work.

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
Yes, that is correct. The law only prohibits servile work Nisan 15 in Leviticus 23 and in that chapter, there is no holy convocation that prohibits only servile work called a Sabbath. You must remember this: YOU are the one claiming Nisan 15 was a Sabbath when Jesus died so the burden of proof is on you. The LXX is a mistranslation (misinterpretation) of the Hebrew and Josephus claim that the Jews kept the Passover in companies was written 60 years after the death of Jesus and twenty years after the destruction of the Temple and the Sadducees. You have no proof that in the time of Jesus Nisan 15 was reckoned as a Sabbath by the Jewish people. I don’t doubt the stubborn Pharisees called it a Sabbath but that was just their opinion and not the law of the land at that time.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Oh no! If we were to call Nisan 15 "Sabbath" we would conceal there is some work we can do.

SABER TRUTH TIGER writes:
Why is that such a problem for you? Nisan 15 prohibited only servile work and that bothers you for some reason. So, it wasn’t a Sabbath? Why do you care so much? Tell me, put your cards on the table. What day of the week do you think Jesus died on? The scripture plainly say it was the day BEFORE the Sabbath. What day of the week do you think Jesus died on? Let us know what you believe in this regard. Nothing you have shown so far demonstrates that Nisan 15 was a Sabbath the year Jesus died. But it does demonstrate the holy convocation fell on the weekly Sabbath that followed Jesus death.

REVELATION LAD asks:
Really? If that is your position?

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
It is my position the reason the Jews called it a holy convocation and not a Sabbath was 1) it was not called a Sabbath no where in the Christian Greek Scriptures and it was called a holy convocation and 2) Leviticus 23 provided the loophole in the Law that made Nisan 15 a semi-holiday, and not a Sabbath. You are wanting Nisan 15 to be a Sabbath because we both know you believe Nisan 15 was a weekday Sabbath the year Jesus died. Isn’t that your position?

Please let me know if you want to debate this on Christian Forums in front of an audience. I think we may both find it an interesting experience.
 
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REVELATION LAD writes:
None of this is a problem for me.
The issue is you apply one standard for Nisan 15: biblical definition. But apply a different stand for Passover and counting: population practice.
I say pick one and apply it consistently to all three situations.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
No, because popular usage might be wrong. The Pharisees wrongly called Nisan 15 a Sabbath. But, in this case, it doesn't apply to Nisan 15 because Nisan 15 is never called the Sabbath in the Hebrew Scriptures or the Christian Greek Scriptures.

REVELATION LAD writes:
With respect to inclusive counting, you are ignoring the fact Jesus gave the number of days in advance. Just like the people planned to observe Unleavened Bread for 7-days, counted as complete days, these same people would plan on counting the days in the tomb during Unleavened Bread using the same standard.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
The Jews used inclusive counting and they counted full days as well as partial days. A week was counted inclusively as seven days. But the Jews also counted partial days too. If a person was born on the afternoon of the fifth day of the week that moment would be the first day of his life. Two days later would be the third day, even in the morning.

REVELATION LAD writes:
The claim people would observe Unleavened Bread and think the law permitted them to count days as other than sunset-to sunset while at the same time adhering to strictly legal terminology for Nisan 15 while at the same time completely disregarding legal terminology and calling the 7 days Passover, is a spin cycle of logic.

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
Prove it. Nisan 15 was not scripturally a Sabbath. You have no evidence Nisan 15 is a Sabbath.

REVELATION LAD responds:
As I have said from the beginning, pick one position and argue from there. You can't claim people are going to adhere to the law and at the same time does not adhere to the law. Or if you are going to say people can adhere to the law because their practice follows the law, then be consistent: Nisan can be called Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Adhere to the Law, yes. And calling the days of Unleavened Bread Passover was not according to the Law but we know that because the Scripture says so elsewhere. However, nowhere does the Scripture call Nisan 15 a Sabbath. Nowhere. So, just because the Jews fouled up the meaning of Passover, does not prove they fouled it up with Nisan 15. Later, the Pharisees fouled it up but we know they fouled it up because they contradicted Scripture. Just because the days of Unleavened Bread are erroneously called Passover in Luke does not mean it is permissible to call Nisan 15 a Sabbath elsewhere in the Bible. No, Nisan 15 cannot be called a Sabbath scripturally. You say it does, so prove it, from the Bible. Anything else is of man.

 
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Ah, Hislop, the source of so much of these myths about supposedly pagan roots of Christianity. Hislop was a rabidly anti-Catholic Scottish minister, and his entire screed was nothing less than an attempt to prove his particular interpretation of the Revelation, that the Roman Catholic Church was Mystery Babylon. Hislop was the epitome of what happens when people try to use the Scriptures to justify their hatred, dreaming up in their fevered imagination all kinds of "connections" between completely unrelated subjects, sometimes on nothing more than the fact that two words might sound similar.

What is really sad is how gullible so many absolutely sincere and otherwise devoted Christians can be. People accept these myths and lies without question. And of course, a lot of people who are on these Christian boards and are going on about Christian doctrine and practice are not even Christians. A lot of this stuff is coming from Jehovah's Witnesses, who actually believe Christianity itself is pagan and idolatrous. And then there are Protestants, particularly Evangelical Protestants, who suffer from the remnants of Protestant angst against the Roman Catholic Church and will believe anything if it takes aim at Catholics, and I say that as an Evangelical Protestant. I have many issues with Roman Catholic doctrines and practices, but I am also a New Testament historian and a Christian apologist, so I see for myself how twisted all this is. And the thing is, where Hislop was aiming his fire at the Catholics, others are now using that same fuel to flame Protestants! Talk about being hoisted on your own petard! Or should that be "burned at your own stake."

In Christ,
Deborah

Indeed, thank you for this contribution. God bless you.
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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REVELATION LAD writes:
This debate revolves around several issues. 1) How to count a day 2) Can Nisan 15 be callled “Sabbath” 3) At what time of year should the crucifixion and resurrection be remembered.

Biblically, a day is from sunset-to-sunset. For example the Sabbath is observed for a full day. Likewise all feast days on the calendar are observed and counted as such. At the beginning of a 7-day feast, no one thinks the third day will be on the second day.

SABER TRUTH TIGER writes:
So far, so good. Yes, Nisan 15 CAN be called a Sabbath just like someone CAN fornicate. Just because you can doesn’t mean it is lawful. Likewise, just because the Pharisees and modern Jews call it a Sabbath doesn’t make it a Sabbath. If you think they lawfully call it a Sabbath, I need chapter and verse.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Nevertheless, it is believed people would count any part of a day as a day and this allows one to count Friday, Saturday, Sunday as 3. In fact, as the Gospels clearly show, people did not follow Biblical terminology. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was called Passover (Luke 22:1). This practice continues to this day. This shows popular convention did not treat terms with a strict legal understanding.

SABER TRUTH TIGER writes:
This shows the people sometimes called the days of Unleavened Bread Passover (erroneously) and we know better today. It doesn’t prove the people called Nisan 15 Sabbath. That wasn’t done until AFTER the Pharisees regained control of the Temple sometime around the middle of the first century CE. You cannot show a single verse in the Hebrew and the New Testament that called Nisan 15 a Sabbath. None. So, your speculation about whether or not it could have been or may not have been is worthless. We know people did not always follow Bible terminology, but this doesn’t prove Nisan 15 was a Sabbath. I need proof Nisan 15 was a Sabbath.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Despite calling Unleavened Bread “Passover” people did not eat the Passover meal 7 more days, and despite a day beginning and ending at sunset people could count any part of a day as a day.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
You claim they observed the Passover (days of Unleavened Bread) for seven full days and that is true. If Jesus died on Friday afternoon, the sixth day of the week, then Sunday would be the third day of his death, even in the morning.

REVELATION LAD writes:
All of this is fine. However, if people are not going to use terms with the strict legal meaning, calling Nisan 15 “Sabbath” is just another example of popular convention.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Proof please. Show scripture, book, chapter, and verse. Show me in the scripture why you believe this.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Furthermore there is no legal consequence for this practice.

SABER TRUTH TIGER writes:
There is a legal consequence of this practice. Celebrating Nisan 15 as a Sabbath alters the day Shavuot occurs. Without Nisan 15 being a Sabbath, Shavuot would occur on the seventh Sunday after the waving of the Omer, no matter what day the Passover Seder occurred on. However, if Nisan 15 is the Sabbath of Passover, then Shavuot can fall on any day of the week, depending on what day the waving of the Omer was that year.

REVELATON LAD
It simply overstates the prohibition on work. Anyone who observed Nisan 15 as if it were a Sabbath fulfilled the law to avoid servile work.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
When Jesus walked the earth, the priests were always wanting to add to the laws governing what was allowed on the Sabbath and what wasn’t. They added to the law, and it became burdensome instead of a delight. The Pharisees added to the holy convocations laws that the Hebrew Scriptures did not and made them Sabbaths when they were not. Jesus called the priests hypocrites for adding to the law and if he did indeed do this, then do you think Yahweh would be pleased with the Pharisees adding to the holy convocations laws that he didn’t add in the Hebrew Scriptures or in the person of Jesus Christ?

REVELATION LAD
Obviously it was not a Sabbath under the law, but if we accept people ignored strict legal terminology and called Nisan 15 one of the days of Passover, why would they not call it Sabbath to reflect the prohibition of some work?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
You ask why would they not call it a Sabbath? Maybe because it wasn’t one? You have provided no evidence that it was a Sabbath or even reckoned as a Sabbath anytime during which Jesus lived. If they wanted to reflect the prohibition of some work, why not just call it what it was all along, a holy convocation?

REVELATION LAD
And if they did not call it Sabbath, what did they say?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I have answered this question a dozen times already. They called it a holy convocation because that is what it is. Read Leviticus 23.

REVELATION LAD
Also, all four Gospels use the plural Sabbaths when describing the resurrection. The best explant for the use of the plural, is more than one: Nisan 15 and the weekly.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
That may seem to be the best explanation to you but that doesn’t mean it is the best explanation. Greek scholars with more Greek knowledge than you and I put together claim it can be an idiom for first of the week and sometimes the plural can be used for a single day.

REVELATION LAD
The response is Nisan 15 isn’t a Sabbath according to the law. Therefore it cannot be called Sabbath. But the issue is what did the people say?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
YOU don’t know what the people said. You have wasted a lot of time claiming they called Nisan 15 a Sabbath but where did they say Nisan 15 was a Sabbath? Not during the time of Jesus, they didn’t.

REVELATION LAD
If they did not follow strict legal terminology in counting days or in naming Unleavened Bread, that proves people were practical, not legalistic. Or if we are to interpret by strict legal definitions and Nisan 15 was not a Sabbath, then Friday to Sunday was not three days.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
It proves only they called the days of Unleavened Bread Passover. It doesn’t prove they called Nisan 15 a Sabbath. Think about it. Why do we know they mistakenly call the days of Unleavened Bread Passover? Because the Bible says so. But how do we know they mistakenly called Nisan 15 a Sabbath? We don’t. Because the Bible doesn’t say so.

REVELATION LAD
Luke says, “then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And the rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.” (23:56). If the Sabbath was always the Sabbath, why does Luke need to add “they rested according to the commandment?”

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Maybe because he wanted his audience to know that there was a commandment to keep the Sabbath? Luke was writing to a Greek audience, and he may have wanted them to know why they had to rest even though their work was unfinished.

REVELATION LAD
However, if they called Nisan 15 Sabbath, it makes perfect sense, “And they rested on the Sabbath, Nisan 15, according to the commandment.”

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Nisan 15 was not a Sabbath so that doesn’t make any sense at all. You ASSUME it was but have no proof that Nisan 15 was a Sabbath UNLESS it fell on the weekly Sabbath. Then, that would be a high day. Please answer this question: What day do you believe Jesus died on, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday?
 
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prodromos

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If this is true, why is the day of the resurrection called the day after the Sabbaths?
Ask a linguist. Language is a living thing and often does what it likes for no apparent reason. There are innumerable examples in English where an expression is used that doesn't really make sense grammatically, even something as basic as asking "How are you?"
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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If what you say about the Sabbath is true, then there is never a question of which day of the week is the Sabbath. Every week the Sabbath will fall on the same day, and every week the day before the Sabbath will always fall on the same day and every week the day after the Sabbath will always be on the same day. There will never be an exception. You can count the days inclusively. Friday (1), Saturday (2), Sunday (3). Sunday is the day after the Sabbath (singular, as it is every week).
SABER TRUTH TIGER
There is no other Sabbath in the Bible besides the weekly Sabbath, the Yom Kippur Sabbath, and the Land Sabbath. However, the Jews spent 70 years in servitude in Babylon and it was probably during that time the precursors to the Pharisees picked up on the Nisan 15 Sabbath as the Babylonians observed Nisan 15 as a Sabbath every year. Then, years later, after the return to Israel and the building of the new Temple, the Pharisees disagreed with what was then the traditional date of the Omer and changed it to the day after Nisan 15.
If this is true, why is the day of the resurrection called the day after the Sabbaths?
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Again, I have to answer this question. There are Greek scholars who claim that the Greek plural for Sabbath was highly idiomatic and could be used for one day and even be used for "week". The LXX translated Sabbaths as Weeks in Leviticus 23 once because they wanted the Nisan 16 Omer and that meant that they could not use Sabbaths when counting down the seven Sabbath countdown because of their new interpretation. So they interpreted Sabbaths as Weeks in Leviticus 23:15. Shavuot would fall on any day of the week under the Pharisees' reckoning. So, they had to call Nisan 16 the "day after the first day" which would be the first day of Unleavened Bread.
If there is never anything other than a weekly Sabbath at this time of year, then why does each writer say Sabbaths?
SABER TRUTH TIGER
There is an erroneous teaching that Nisan 15 is the Sabbath of Passover week. But again, Sabbaths is sometimes used for "first of the Sabbaths" meaning first day of the week and other times used in the plural for the single usage.
And why is the plural Sabbath called the first day of the week?
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Because it is an idiom.
The first day of the week is always going to be the day after the Sabbath. If there can never be a plural Sabbath, there is no reason to say the day after the Sabbaths.
SABER TRUTH
It is an idiom and can be translated as a single Sabbath or the "first of the week" as shown in Acts 20:7. You need to know Greek can be idiomatic just like American English.
The correct terminology is always, the day after the Sabbath, because the singular Sabbath always identifies the same day of the week, Saturday and the day before is Friday and the day after is always Sunday.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Correct. Now, which day of the week did Jesus die on?
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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SABER TRUTH TIGER
There is no other Sabbath in the Bible besides the weekly Sabbath, the Yom Kippur Sabbath, and the Land Sabbath. However, the Jews spent 70 years in servitude in Babylon and it was probably during that time the precursors to the Pharisees picked up on the Nisan 15 Sabbath as the Babylonians observed Nisan 15 as a Sabbath every year. Then, years later the Pharisees disagreed with what was then the traditional date of the Omer and changed it to the day after Nisan 15.

Response
Here you show the convention of people calling Nisan 15 as a “Sabbath” while in Babylon. This was the Sabbath which would start the count to Shavuot.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Prove it. The Jews counted the weekly Sabbath to precede the Omer and the precursors to the Pharisees were not in the majority at the time. It still doesn't prove Nisan 15 is a Sabbath because Yahweh himself said it was a holy convocation and not a Sabbath. So, just because there were some Jews who believed Nisan 15 (they believed in it enough they mistranslated Leviticus 23:11 in the LXX and even translated "Sabbaths" in 23:15 as Weeks. No, it was all a pipe dream of the precursors to the Pharisees. There was a period, sometime between the second century and the first century BCE the Pharisees actually controlled the Temple worship and had their way of counting from Nisan 16 to Shavuot but once the Sadducees gained control that all changed. Until about 50 CE when it was restored by Rabbi Yohannon ben Zakkai.
This is the same practice which is used today. This explains why Shavuot is not always on a Sunday, the day after a weekly Sabbath. These practices were in effect before the Second Temple and are in effect today. Yet you claim people at the time of Christ never called Nisan 15 a Sabbath. History contradicts your position.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Today's use is not relevant to whether Nisan 15 is a Sabbath or not. Today's use descended from the Pharisee reckoning and you are just repeating the Pharisaical reckoning of Nisan 15. History does not contradict my position. Show me where the Jews celebrated Nisan 15 as a Sabbath when Jesus was alive. I am not claiming no one called Nisan 15 when Christ was alive, the Pharisees did but they did so unscripturally. You are teaching a false doctrine, totally cut off from Scripture. I have shown from scripture that Nisan 15 was not a Sabbath. Again, what day of the week do you think Jesus died?
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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Response
1. Today's use begin in Babylon. Please offer evidence this practice ceased when the Temple was rebuilt. 2. If the practice begin in Babylon, please offer evidence those Jews who did not return to Israel abandoned the practice. 3. Yes calling Nisan 15 is "unscriptural" if you define unscriptural as not being literally correct. Calling Unleavened Bread "Passover" (Luke 23:1) is "unscriptural" but Scripture proves that is what people did. They did not use terms "scripturally" correct.

History refutes all of our claims. The people of the Diaspora called Nisan 15 "Sabbath" and they used the Biblical definition of Sabbath to observe Shavuot, They did so in Babylon and that practice continues to this day. People did not use scriptural definitions to refer to the special days on the calendar. As to the day of the week. This is the basis for the debate. It has no bearing on whether people called Unleavened Bread "Passover" or Nisan 15 "Sabbath." Nor does the day of the week of the crucifixion or resurrection have any bearing on salvation.

Romans 10:9 - because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. The day of the week is not a condition for salvation. Days in the tomb counted inclusively or otherwise are not a condition for salvation. Do not make a minor point major. This is the issue which divided the church and led to the threat of excommunication if people did not observe the Passover on a Friday every year.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
What day of the week do you think Jesus died on?
 
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Response
1. Today's use begin in Babylon.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Yes, it is very likely that some of the Jews who lived in Babylon and worshipped Nisan 15 as the Sabbath and that includes their descendants.
Please offer evidence this practice ceased when the Temple was rebuilt.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
This practice did not entirely disappear when the Temple was rebuilt. There were two main factions when the Temple was rebuilt, those that believed the pagan Babylon Nisan 15 Sabbath would be reckoned as the Sabbath after which was to begin the 50-day countdown to Shavuot and those that held that Leviticus 23:11 was referring to the weekly Sabbath. Choosing the right one was essential to ending up on the correct day for Shavuot. Those that believed Nisan 15 was a Sabbath mistranslated the Hebrew in Leviticus 23:11, 15 and counted seven weekdays to Shavuot. Those that believed that the Sabbath in Leviticus 23:11 was the weekly Sabbath would begin counting on Sunday, 50 days, inclusive, ending up on a Sunday seven weeks later. There was no practice to cease. There were beliefs and the beliefs clashed. The Biblical method of counting Shavuot was that of the Sadducees and there is no proof that the belief that Nisan 15 was a Sabbath before the Temple was built. Why would Yahweh give careful instructions on how to celebrate the Omer and how to count down toward Shavuot only to turn around and ignore the Jews who believed Nisan 15 was a Sabbath mistranslate the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek with an entirely new way to count to Shavuot? The belief that Nisan 15 is a Sabbath did not originate with God, it originated in a pagan country and a pagan holiday that happened to coincide with a Jewish holy convocation. And from now on, I am going to argue from the viewpoint you believe Jesus died on a Thursday. If I am wrong please correct me.
2. If the practice begin in Babylon, please offer evidence those Jews who did not return to Israel abandoned the practice.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
There was no doubt many Jews who remained in Babylon and continued to use the Nisan 15 Sabbath. That does not make it scriptural, or the day Yahweh intended. Now, since I have answered your question, please tell me what day of the week you believe Jesus died on.

3. Yes calling Nisan 15 is "unscriptural" if you define unscriptural as not being literally correct. Calling Unleavened Bread "Passover" (Luke 23:1) is "unscriptural" but Scripture proves that is what people did. They did not use terms "scripturally" correct.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
You have offered no evidence the Jewish religion at the time of Jesus called Nisan 15 a Sabbath. There were those who believed it was (the Pharisees) but that does not mean it was, even if a majority agreed with them. Just because some of the Jews were unscriptural regarding Passover doesn't logically mean they were also unscriptural about Nisan 15. I do admit there were some Jews who were scripturally incorrect about holding to the Nisan 15 Sabbath, but you have offered no evidence that the Jews in charge at the time of Jesus were incorrect. Please provide your evidence that the Jews in authority in Jesus' day observed Nisan 15 as a Sabbath.
History refutes all of our claims. The people of the Diaspora called Nisan 15 "Sabbath" and they used the Biblical definition of Sabbath to observe Shavuot, They did so in Babylon and that practice continues to this day. People did not use scriptural definitions to refer to the special days on the calendar. As to the day of the week. This is the basis for the debate. It has no bearing on whether people called Unleavened Bread "Passover" or Nisan 15 "Sabbath." Nor does the day of the week of the crucifixion or resurrection have any bearing on salvation.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
Please provide your evidence that all the Jews in the Diaspora all called Nisan 15 "Sabbath". If they used the Bible (the Hebrew Scriptures) definition of Sabbath to observe Shavuot, then Shavuot would always be celebrated on a Sunday. Most of the Jews in the Diaspora used a erroneous translation of Leviticus 23:11 to worship on the wrong day. But in Jesus day, in Palestine, the Jews followed the Hebrew Calendar until the Pharisees regained control of the Temple in 50 CE. You always bring up the days of Unleavened Bread and we know that the Jews were in error because we have the Hebrew Scriptures to prove it. You don't have the Hebrew Scriptures to prove Nisan 15 was a Sabbath. The Jewish Pharisaic religion used a poor translation to provide "proof" that Nisan 16 would always thereafter be counted as the Omer and the seven-week (not Sabbath) countdown toward Shavuot would follow.
Romans 10:9 - because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. The day of the week is not a condition for salvation. Days in the tomb counted inclusively or otherwise are not a condition for salvation. Do not make a minor point major. This is the issue which divided the church and led to the threat of excommunication if people did not observe the Passover on a Friday every year.
SABER TRUTH TIGER
What day do you observe as the day of Jesus' death? What day of the week did Jesus die on?
 
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SABER TRUTH TIGER August 28-2
There is no other Sabbath in the Bible besides the weekly Sabbath, the Yom Kippur Sabbath, and the Land Sabbath. However, the Jews spent 70 years in servitude in Babylon and it was probably during that time the precursors to the Pharisees picked up on the Nisan 15 Sabbath as the Babylonians observed Nisan 15 as a Sabbath every year. Then, years later, after the return to Israel and the building of the new Temple, the Pharisees disagreed with what was then the traditional date of the Omer and changed it to the day after Nisan 15.

Revelation Lad writes:
These are your words, not mine. Yet when I cite them, you ask me to prove it. Today the Jews observe Nisan 15 as the Sabbath which begins the count to Shavuot.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
The Jews observe the wrong days of the Omer and Shavuot. It doesn’t really matter though, as the weekend Jesus died the Pharisee calendar coincided with the Sadducean calendar, and the waving of the Omer was on the Sunday morning Jesus rose from the dead. That’s according to both calendars.

REVELATION LAD writes:
History proves the people considered Nisan 15 to be the Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
History proves SOME people considered Nisan 15 to be the Sabbath and History proves SOME people considered the Sabbath in Leviticus 23:11 to be the weekly Sabbath.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Josephus also confirms this.

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
Josephus repeated the erroneous reckoning of the Nisan 15 Sabbath. At the time he wrote that Nisan 15 was indeed a Sabbath by most of the Jewish nation in Palestine. But this doesn’t prove Nisan 15 was always reckoned a Sabbath and does not prove Nisan 15 was a Sabbath when Jesus died. The year Jesus died both the Sadducean and Pharisaic counting coincided. Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14 and if you use both calendars, you will see they coincided. It’s as if Yahweh knew that in the future people would still be arguing over which day was the correct Sabbath after the Seder so he arranged things where both calendars coincided. Amazing.

REVELATION LAD
So a practice which you claim began in Babylon and was confirmed by Josephus and is still in effect today calls Nisan 15 the Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Josephus simply repeated an erroneous doctrine of the Pharisee party. He was a Pharisee so it’s not surprising that he would use the Pharisee reckoning. That doesn’t disprove the belief that Nisan 15 was not a Sabbath.

REVELATION LAD
This is further confirmed by the practice of observing Shavuot.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
That’s circular reasoning. You claim the Shavuot reckoning of the Pharisees confirms the practice of the Pharisees.

REVELATION LAD
Leviticus 23:15-16: “‘From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath,and then present an offering of new grain to the Lord.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The Septuagint translated seven complete Sabbaths as seven full weeks. When the correct day of the Omer was observed, the first weekly Sunday after the Seder, the seven Sabbath countdown toward Shavuot begun. The first day of the count began on a Sunday. Seven Sabbaths were counted and the day after the seventh Sabbath after the beginning of the countdown, Sunday, was the correct day to observe Shavuot. I offer my evidence Leviticus 23 in the Hebrew Bible. It wasn’t that way in the LXX. The LXX mistranslates Leviticus 23:11 and 15 to teach their erroneous doctrine and you embrace it.
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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REVELATION LAD writes:
Also with respect to the plural of Sabbaths, you claim it was an idiom for the first day of the week. Prove it.

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
I didn’t say that. I said there are Greek scholars who know more about the Greek than you and me combined believe that. Now, if you would only prove Nisan 15 is, in God’s eyes, a Sabbath.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Prove that when the plural was used it did not mean what was actually said, plural Sabbaths.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Ever heard of an idiom?

REVELATION LAD writes:
Also explain why people would use an idiom when none was necessary,

SABER TRUTH TIGER replies:
I’ve used idioms when none was necessary. I’ve seen idioms elsewhere where they weren’t necessary. Idioms often don’t make sense but they are accepted as such.

REVELATION LAD writes:
and why they picked an idiom which would be confusing to someone like Josephus who understood Nisan 15 was called the Sabbath,

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Why would a Greek idiom be confusing to Josephus? He was not only a Pharisee, he was a Jew and knew Greek well, He would understand the Greek idioms we have trouble believing in.

REVELATION LAD writes:
and why saying “day after the Sabbath“ which could not be confused. IOW why resort to an unbiblical idiom which was not only potentially confusing, but completely unnecessary?

SABER TRUTH TIGER answers:
The day after the Sabbath is Sunday. It is not confusing. You say it is an unbiblical idiom but it is a Greek idiom that was used in the Gospel accounts. Idioms don’t make sense to many people in another language so the fact it is confusing does not prove Nisan 15 was the first of two Sabbaths. Greek scholars that know more Greek than you and me believe it is an idiom (see BDAG lexicon). Search BDAG on Google and it will bring you to a place where you can buy your own copy. I just recently bought mine but my knowledge of the Greek is too poor to use it properly at this time.
 
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