Trump’s Muslim ban

[comana]

US immigration should not eliminate anyone because of country of origin or religion. It goes against everything this country is built on.

 

[RileyG]

If Islam was a "religion" they would make perfect neighbors. The fact of the matter is, you can't separate political Islam from the "pray to whatever God you want" portion of Islam.

Christians under the New Covenant believe God himself gave mankind a certain amount of liberty. We either use our liberty in the manner God requires, or we use that same liberty to reap burning coals on our heads.

Islam is a worldview and very political system that stands diametrically opposed to our own. I can see being neighborly with a Muslim majority nation... But you can't have two completely opposing systems operating in the same nation.

I do understand what you are saying.

I appreciate your knowledge.

Part of jihad is making society more Islamic.

With that being said, not all Muslims are violent or fanatics.

I’m taking about individuals here, not the religion or ideology itself.

 

[Adam56]

I doubt it's moral, but more importantly it's unconstitutional.

How is it unconstitutional? Trump did it back in his first term.

 

[Adam56]

US immigration should not eliminate anyone because of country of origin or religion. It goes against everything this country is built on.

I’m not so sure that’s true.

 

[Adam56]

Who is “they” in the above?

The nation

 

[Larniavc]

Exactly why our country was founded in the first place, even though the puritans escaping the Church of England were incredibly intolerant of others. Ironic.

That’s why they wanted to leave England. They did not want to have to tolerate people of different faiths.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I do understand what you are saying.

I appreciate your knowledge.

Part of jihad is making society more Islamic.

With that being said, not all Muslims are violent or fanatics.

I’m taking about individuals here, not the religion or ideology itself.

The problem I see with Islam is that the political aspects are so baked into the cake, it stops being about a single individual or even small group of individuals.

There's awesome Muslim Americans from a liberal perspective, people who will live here, raise their children as Americans and never once be anything but excellent people and patriotic Americans.

But what about their children, their grandchildren? What about the next Muslim?

All Islam needs is the right personality to be more than just dangerous, because Islam is evil at its core. (And yes this is a personal assessment)

Muslims themselves have looked for ways to rewrite the religion so it's more user friendly in the 21st century as a faith but extremist political Islam is just too baked into the cake. By the time you remove all that nerds to be removed there's not much left...

So what you're left with is something that will always end up with a very large number of pretty extreme teachings.

You can certainly have Christian extremists but in Christianity it's not baked in...

Think of it this way:

When Christians refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the U.S. government - which is considered fairly extreme by some - they don't really change much. Their lives are like everyone else's. They pay their taxes, they follow the laws of the land with very few exceptions etcetera.

The main issues they will have will be things like vaccines, whether they have a birth certificate or a social security number, but all the law requires they will pretty much do because that's what the laws of God requires.

You get an enclave of Muslims who decides to go all in with Sharia and hudood punishments and it's a whole different story... You can have child marriage, forced marriage, FGM (utterly horrific), stoning of women to death and more.

The American system so long as it never has any significant changes will remain perfectly compatible with Christians lives even when the government disgusts them and they don't feel they can participate - but it's not compatible with political Islam at all, and never will be.

Get a population of 100,000 Muslims following political Islam in America and you have a potentially volatile situation because they kill people.

And the above is a potential out of a group of 1 million Muslim. Literally any random group of 1 million you have the potential for that 100,000 being very violent.

There's no other faith that has this great a potential for a type of extremism that is completely incompatible with the world around it..

In a liberal society you really do want to limit that potential to the best of your ability. And the only thing I see is just to keep the Islamic population fairly low. I don't want to see this country ever be more than 2% Muslim.

Why so low? So that the culture we have is more likely to affect the mindsets of the Muslim population positively, but even so they will always be political, and their ideas of right and wrong are not generally compatible with our own without the Muslim population remaining liberal.

A conservative Christian and a fairly liberal Muslim are about the same animal - just so you know.

I just rejoined X last week and found the Muslims fairly quickly talking about throwing gays off roofs... British Muslims, not some crazy backwoods Muslim in some far away land no one has ever heard of.

And do you know what? They were fairly liberal.... But they aren't getting along well in a western society that is liberal. What they find utterly abhorrent is on every street.

It's on every street for Christians too, but we know murder is morally wrong. We are just sad to see people who don't know the love of Christ.

Islam is just, in the main, not compatible with our societal structure. And as such, we do have to view it a little differently.

There's things I think are more than possible, temporary resettling - definitely yes, but I wouldn't run it more than 50 years, if that. 5-10 years during a war is just fine for most Muslim populations.

There are non violent sects associated with Islam who don't use the same holy books and will never be violent... So choosing from sects like that for immigration leading to citizenship is fine.

But if we here in America are going to continue to allow immigration I do think we need to do so with a far clearer eye than the one world leaders have been using. We need to vet, vet, and vet some more for cultural compatibility.

There are Christians from other nations I don't think are compatible with our liberalism... Let alone Muslims.

We really need to, for the safety of the citizens, really understand the issues and then look at how we can do better for everyone.

I do feel sorry for the Muslims right now in Britain as much as I feel sorry for the Patriots. I can't help it, for them the situation is just as untenable...

It was never going to work... And we should have understood that sooner.

 

[Whyayeman]

If only it was a simple matter! Whatever views one may have of Islam as a religion, the law will always be about persons. Trump's fiat during the Covid outbreak could not be applied and never was as far as I know because it is unworkable and - well - stupid.

Would his propsosed ban have included, say, Malala Yousafsai, born in Pakistan, an observant Muslim and a Nobel laureate?

 

[Hazelelponi]

If only it was a simple matter! Whatever views one may have of Islam as a religion, the law will always be about persons. Trump's fiat during the Covid outbreak could not be applied and never was as far as I know because it is unworkable and - well - stupid.

Would his propsosed ban have included, say, Malala Yousafsai, born in Pakistan, an observant Muslim and a Nobel laureate?

Which is why I say vet and vet some more, but vet for cultural compatibility.

Also there's something else to consider. Why are we taking the best and the brightest from every country?

I think that leaves their own nations at a loss for not having their influence on and in their own societies...

We need perhaps to consider that immigration isn't always the best answer for people in other countries, even when it might seem to be positive. There are Muslims who convert to the Christian faith and freely stay in highly volatile areas, even though their lives are in constant danger, in order to positively influence their people in some way.

We need to consider how what we do might actually be a negative thing at times, by taking potentially positive influences out of the communities who need them.

We could almost be described as taking peace out of the world under the guise of peace.

Just food for thought really...

 

[Adam56]

With that being said, not all Muslims are violent or fanatics.

But you do realize that they breed children more than Christians?

If they grow in numbers, they will use their numbers to force society into becoming more Islamic.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I have inquired about this before on this forum, and two users quickly fled. Sadly I can’t call them out (forum rules), but I feel I need to ask here.

Is it moral for the USA to ban countries from immigrating because the underlying motive is to keep Muslim numbers very low in order, to be quite Frank, make their political opinions meaningless.

I personally believe it is. Immigration is a privilege not a right.

unfortunately Muslims want to conquer and put in place the sharia law. As examples, look at France England and Sweden, they have so many problems and social unrest all the time beacuse Muslims do not want to adapt. Islam's religion is intolerance and violence against all who do not bow to their false god allah, and No, allah is not the same as YAHWEH. I have read the quran and I know this. Immigration is a privilege and they must integrate into a society and not try to destroy it.

 

[Adam56]

unfortunately Muslims want to conquer and put in place the sharia law. As examples, look at France England and Sweden, they have so many problems and social unrest all the time beacuse Muslims do not want to adapt. Islam's religion is intolerance and violence against all who do not bow to their false god allah, and No, allah is not the same as YAHWEH. I have read the quran and I know this. Immigration is a privilege and they must integrate into a society and not try to destroy it.

Why not just ban them?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

He didn’t state it openly. He said it was for national security purposes:

If there's no evidence, then there's no discussion.

 

[Adam56]

If there's no evidence, then there's no discussion.

I didn’t say no evidence existed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I didn’t say no evidence existed.

This is a let your yes be yes and your no be no kind of thing. You've lost all credibility.

 

[Adam56]

This is a let your yes be yes and your no be no kind of thing. You've lost all credibility.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What are you even talking about?

That should be my question.

 

[Adam56]

That should be my question.

So you’re just gonna post ambiguous nonsense. Got it.

 

[Robban]

Why not just ban them?

From one end of the stick to the other

 

[Adam56]

From one end of the stick to the other

Multiculturalism is a plague.