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There seems to be an unforgivable sin

JohnB445

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If you read the book of Revelation, from what I am understanding

If anybody tries to make their own version of a Bible, change the words of scripture or remove some of it. That seems to be the unforgivable sin or is it not?

Cult leaders have done this, what if they knew what they were doing? Have they did the unforgivable sin if they have deceived many for money or power?
 

SabbathBlessings

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If you read the book of Revelation, from what I am understanding

If anybody tries to make their own version of a Bible, change the words of scripture or remove some of it. That seems to be the unforgivable sin or is it not?

Cult leaders have done this, what if they knew what they were doing? Have they did the unforgivable sin if they have deceived many for money or power?
That is definitely a sin to change God's Word and many of the modern translations who have liberally added to God's Word, will be held accountable to God Pro 3:5-6, but that is not the unforgivable sin. If they have a change of heart , repent and turn to God, we have a very forgiving Father.

The unforgivable sin is one who has hardened their heart to the Holy Spirit Matthew 12:31-32where one no longer hears the voice of God calling them out of their rebellion and sin. Heb 3:7-8 Where one has learned to live comfortably in sin, that is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. Heb 10:26-30
 
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RandyPNW

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If you read the book of Revelation, from what I am understanding

If anybody tries to make their own version of a Bible, change the words of scripture or remove some of it. That seems to be the unforgivable sin or is it not?

Cult leaders have done this, what if they knew what they were doing? Have they did the unforgivable sin if they have deceived many for money or power?
The inference is not that anybody who "adds" or "subtracts" inadvertently will suffer punishment, but that those who *deliberately* do so will suffer an equivalent punishment. Those who fail to warn others of an impending judgment will themselves suffer the like.

There are several layers to this, ranging from the sins of Christians who in pride doctor the Scriptures to those who out of evil, malicious behavior willfully oppose God. The point is, people need to be warned, and those who weaken the warning will themselves be punished for doing harm to those who should be warned.

But yes, those referred to, ie those who willfully rebel against God's word, will be cursed for all time, or permanently removed from God's blessed Kingdom. Mistakes that Christians make will be forgiven.
 
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ARBITER01

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If you read the book of Revelation, from what I am understanding

If anybody tries to make their own version of a Bible, change the words of scripture or remove some of it. That seems to be the unforgivable sin or is it not?

Cult leaders have done this, what if they knew what they were doing? Have they did the unforgivable sin if they have deceived many for money or power?

Well let's take a look at that section of scripture,....

Rev 22:18 I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.


Mystery solved.
 
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ViaCrucis

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If you read the book of Revelation, from what I am understanding

If anybody tries to make their own version of a Bible, change the words of scripture or remove some of it. That seems to be the unforgivable sin or is it not?

That isn't what St. John said in the Revelation. The warning in the Revelation is against changing, removing, or adding to the warnings and promises of that text.

There was no "Bible" when John wrote the Revelation. And the Revelation itself was among the most controversial books of the New Testament, it wasn't fully accepted as Holy Scripture until almost a thousand years after it was written. That's how controversial it was.

Cult leaders have done this, what if they knew what they were doing? Have they did the unforgivable sin if they have deceived many for money or power?

That isn't the unpardonable sin. The unpardonable sin, according to the Lord Jesus Himself, as recorded in the Gospels, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Cults can use a regular Christian Bible and still be cults.
Cults can use their own bizarre version of the Bible and still be cults.
Cults can reject some or all of the Bible and still be cults.

That isn't how we determine what is and isn't a cult.

The issue of the Biblical Canon is a complicated one, one which many Christians have genuine disagreements over even today (e.g. the status of the so-called Deuterocanonical books) but those disagreements don't render anyone a member of a cult.

That said, I wouldn't trust someone who felt comfortable picking and choosing which books they like or dislike. The reason why I don't take issue with Luther's questioning of the Deuterocanonicals (nor his questions concerning the New Testament Antilegomena) is because Luther approached the issue academically and was seeking to engage old conversations and old debates within the history of the Church. With that said, I don't think we should just blindly follow Luther on this either, and I'm glad that the Lutheran Confessions, which I hold to as a Lutheran, don't take a side on this question.

But back to the topic at hand. St. John of Patmos didn't have the Biblical Canon in mind, he was referring to the specific text he was writing, the Revelation. It is a warning about not taking the Revelation seriously. Of course, whether or not we take that warning seriously depends on whether we are to regard the Revelation as Sacred Scripture, or not. Since we do take it seriously as Scripture, then the warning is to be taken seriously: there are promises and there are warnings in the Revelation, and they should be taken seriously.

But none of this has to do with the unpardonable sin.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Kimberly72

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That is definitely a sin to change God's Word and many of the modern translations who have liberally added to God's Word, will be held accountable to God Pro 3:5-6, but that is not the unforgivable sin. If they have a change of heart , repent and turn to God, we have a very forgiving Father.

The unforgivable sin is one who has hardened their heart to the Holy Spirit Matthew 12:31-32where one no longer hears the voice of God calling them out of their rebellion and sin. Heb 3:7-8 Where one has learned to live comfortably in sin, that is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. Heb 10:26-30
I think that’s why people read the Bible during worship sevice to make sure the pastor is going by the Bible and not changing things to scripture as they feel fit
 
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A Devil's Advocate

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If you read the book of Revelation, from what I am understanding

If anybody tries to make their own version of a Bible, change the words of scripture or remove some of it. That seems to be the unforgivable sin or is it not?

Cult leaders have done this, what if they knew what they were doing? Have they did the unforgivable sin if they have deceived many for money or power?
Hey John.

The unforgivable sin is unbelief, pure and simple. And the kicker here is, we are all guilty of it since, by default, we all come into the world unbelievers, and remain unbelievers until we choose to believe.

In John 16:8-9, Jesus, who will have already died for the forgiveness of sins by the time the holy spirit comes, makes it clear that the only sin the spirit will convict anyone of, is the sin of unbelief. Unbelief is the only sin not forgiven at the cross, Matt 12:31. It is this sin we are asked to repent of for salvation. We are to turn from our unbelief and believe, since all other sins and blasphemes of man will have 'already' been forgiven. God tearing the temple curtain in two, at the moment of Christ's death, was a visual representation of this fact.

If you read Matt 12:31 believing that the forgiveness of your sins is only received at the moment of salvation, then there are only two possible conclusions we can make from what Jesus said. The first is that none of us are saved since Jesus tells us that our unbelief will not be forgiven, or Jesus lied and our unbelief was forgiven along with the rest of our sins. Since neither one is true, we are left to conclude that all sin was forgiven at the cross except the sin of unbelief, which is left up to us to repent of. Hence why we call it the unforgivable sin.

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This is a followup to my above response. It's something I realized after giving this some more thought. I hope it will shed some more light on your understanding of the unforgivable sin.

When most people hear the term 'unforgivable', or 'unpardonable' sin, they naturally assume that there is some sin so horrific and terrible that not even Jesus can for give it. It is this assumption that leads people to start throwing out their ideas of what this sin must be.

If we were to take a step back and look at who Jesus is, we realize that he was there in the beginning and is the creator of all things. With that in mind, what sin could one of his creations perform that he couldn't, or wouldn't be willing to forgive? Lets take it a step further.

If you could imagine the most horrific sin imaginable and you compared that sin to your entire lifespan of sins, collectively, which would be worse? You have a very powerful imagination you say? Okay, I'll give you that. It's a little scary, but I'll give you that. How about this, take every sin of the entire world, wait! Lets take every sin from Adam too the very last person to exist, since these are the sins Jesus died for. Lets compare your imaginatively worst sin to the whole of the human race collectively. I'm confident that you and I would both agree that your sin wouldn't even qualify as a drop in the bucket. Do you see where I'm going with this?

There is no sin that Jesus can't forgive. The reason why 'unbelief' is termed an unforgivable sin is because it would be a violation of our free will if Jesus outright went and forgave it. Our unbelief is a position we have chosen to remain in of our own freewill. A persons choice to remain in unbelief is them simply saying they don't want anything to do with God. They are happy with who they are without him. Our freewill was given to us by God. He has given us the freedom to deny him and to remain in denial of him should we choose so. For Jesus to forgive this position that someone has chosen to remain in would be in essence Jesus saying, "Nah, even though you don't want to spend eternity with me, I don't care. You will spend eternity with me anyways." I believe we would call that an abuse of power. Not something Jesus was ever know to do.

So in summation, the unforgivable sin isn't a sin that Jesus is unable or unwilling to forgive. It is unforgivable because it would be in violation of our freewill. We must make the choice.
 
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