The Four Horsemen and Palestine

[Barraco]

Anyone notice that the colors of the Palestinian flag that immigrants keep waving are also the colors of the four horsemen? I don't think this is a coincidence.

Ezekiel 36 said God would restore Israel in their own land and turn the curses onto the surrounding nations. In 1948, the nation of Israel was formed with its capital west of Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv. After the Yom Kippur War of 1973, Israel sought peace deals with the Palestinians, even giving back land. The Islamic Revolution of 1978-1979 led to violations of peace negotiations and continued war. This Islamic Revolution planted proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Israel responded by sanctioning those territories. These austere conditions, paired with the looming normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia provoked Hamas to attack civilians as part of the Al Aqsa Flood last October 7th. Israel responded by desolating the entire Gaza Strip. Thus the four horsemen are Israel's restoration and conquering of his enemies.

Thoughts?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Anyone notice that the colors of the Palestinian flag that immigrants keep waving are also the colors of the four horsemen? I don't think this is a coincidence.

Yeah I have said this here previously

 

[Marilyn C]

The 4 horse men are the same as the 4 beastly Federations of Dan. 7. Dan. 7 shows their beginnings, while Rev. 6, horsemen are the line up to the Trib.

1. Conquering - The British Empire and America. (Lion and eagle`s wings)

2. Killing - Russia. (bear)

3. Famine - European Union`s policy of `free trade.` (Leopard)

4. Death - Islam. (terrifying beast)

 

[David Lamb]

The 4 horse men are the same as the 4 beastly Federations of Dan. 7. Dan. 7 shows their beginnings, while Rev. 6, horsemen are the line up to the Trib.

1. Conquering - The British Empire and America. (Lion and eagle`s wings)

2. Killing - Russia. (bear)

3. Famine - European Union`s policy of `free trade.` (Leopard)

4. Death - Islam. (terrifying beast)

What biblical reason do you have for saying that the 4 horsemen must be the British Empire and America, Russia, EU and Islam? Other nations/groups than the ones you names have done similar things. For example the Mongol Empire under Genghis Khan conquered, and also killed, The European Free Trade Association had (as the name suggests) a policy of free trade.

 

[Barraco]

Yeah I have said this here previously

Do you think the first four seals are already broken? I believe they are.

I saw that Hezbollah plans to target Christians in Lebanon next. This would flow into the fifth seal. I speculate the persecution would drive the Christians there to Israel for protection. The path of the northern horde of Joel 2 would be paved but the gospel would be powerfully preached in Israel.

Then the sixth seal…

 

[Marilyn C]

What biblical reason do you have for saying that the 4 horsemen must be the British Empire and America, Russia, EU and Islam? Other nations/groups than the ones you names have done similar things. For example the Mongol Empire under Genghis Khan conquered, and also killed, The European Free Trade Association had (as the name suggests) a policy of free trade.

Hi David,

Thank you for asking that question. The short answer is that in Zechariah we see God send out the 4 spirits of heaven to bring the great Federations to judgment. The northern one is first. (Zech. 6: 1 - 8, Joel 2) Then in Dan. 7 we read of the 4 winds/spirits (same Hebrew word) sent out to `stir up the great sea.` 4 great Federations, (kingdoms) arise one at a time, in the time of God setting up his rulership through Israel over the nations.

In our day we don`t have to look far back to see who the great federations/Empires have been and still are. The world even calls them the `Big 4` with the UN instead of Islam, though.

I can give you detail if you want it.

 

[David Lamb]

Hi David,

Thank you for asking that question. The short answer is that in Zechariah we see God send out the 4 spirits of heaven to bring the great Federations to judgment. The northern one is first. (Zech. 6: 1 - 8, Joel 2) Then in Dan. 7 we read of the 4 winds/spirits (same Hebrew word) sent out to `stir up the great sea.` 4 great Federations, (kingdoms) arise one at a time, in the time of God setting up his rulership through Israel over the nations.

In our day we don`t have to look far back to see who the great federations/Empires have been and still are. The world even calls them the `Big 4` with the UN instead of Islam, though.

I can give you detail if you want it.

Thanks for your reply. However, you haven't shown (as far as I can see) that the four federations/horsemen are in fact as you stated before, the British Empire and America, Russia, EU and Islam. All the bible commentaries say that the in Zechariah 6, "the north country" is Babylon, and "the south country is Egypt. In Daniel 7, the same commentaries says that the first beast was Babylon, the second the Medo-Persian empire, the third the Greek empire, and the fourth the Roman empire. These were all great federations.

 

[tailgator]

Anyone notice that the colors of the Palestinian flag that immigrants keep waving are also the colors of the four horsemen? I don't think this is a coincidence.

Ezekiel 36 said God would restore Israel in their own land and turn the curses onto the surrounding nations. In 1948, the nation of Israel was formed with its capital west of Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv. After the Yom Kippur War of 1973, Israel sought peace deals with the Palestinians, even giving back land. The Islamic Revolution of 1978-1979 led to violations of peace negotiations and continued war. This Islamic Revolution planted proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Israel responded by sanctioning those territories. These austere conditions, paired with the looming normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia provoked Hamas to attack civilians as part of the Al Aqsa Flood last October 7th. Israel responded by desolating the entire Gaza Strip. Thus the four horsemen are Israel's restoration and conquering of his enemies.

Thoughts?

I think the king of Babylon has the Palestinians under control.Everyday he smites them with his Rod and it appears that it will be at least another ,4 years before the Medes come against Babylon to destroy it.
The Medes just said the other day they will wait a while before striking Babylon.


They will wait till after the three year drought ,then it will be time to go to Armegeddon Israel.

 

[Marilyn C]

Thanks for your reply. However, you haven't shown (as far as I can see) that the four federations/horsemen are in fact as you stated before, the British Empire and America, Russia, EU and Islam. All the bible commentaries say that the in Zechariah 6, "the north country" is Babylon, and "the south country is Egypt. In Daniel 7, the same commentaries says that the first beast was Babylon, the second the Medo-Persian empire, the third the Greek empire, and the fourth the Roman empire. These were all great federations.

Yes, a lot of people think Dan. 2 & Dan. 7 are the same Federations/Empires. However, looking a bit closer at Dan. 7 beasts we can see that they are in the same time as the Lord setting up His kingdom rule through Israel.

1. The Federations rule contemporaneous. Note the terrifying beast treads the first three down. (Dan. 7: 7)

2. The first three Federations were given an extension of life after the terrifying beast was judged. (Dan. 7: 12)

3. The Federations are in the time of Christ setting up His kingdom rule through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)

Zechariah - `These are the four spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` (Zech. 6: 5) God is judging all the great Federations of the earth. `North,` in Hebrew is `tsaphon,` only used of the north as a quarter. And that is obvious who is in that quarter.

 

[jasmine_childoftheking]

I can imagine John was having a hard time grasping all the visions he was seeing, especially of the four horsemen. Surely, he must have a hard time what each one represent.

 

[Abraxos]

Anyone notice that the colors of the Palestinian flag that immigrants keep waving are also the colors of the four horsemen? I don't think this is a coincidence.

Ezekiel 36 said God would restore Israel in their own land and turn the curses onto the surrounding nations. In 1948, the nation of Israel was formed with its capital west of Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv. After the Yom Kippur War of 1973, Israel sought peace deals with the Palestinians, even giving back land. The Islamic Revolution of 1978-1979 led to violations of peace negotiations and continued war. This Islamic Revolution planted proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Israel responded by sanctioning those territories. These austere conditions, paired with the looming normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia provoked Hamas to attack civilians as part of the Al Aqsa Flood last October 7th. Israel responded by desolating the entire Gaza Strip. Thus the four horsemen are Israel's restoration and conquering of his enemies.

Thoughts?

As I understand your thoughts (correct me if I'm wrong), this entire end-times belief is based upon some biblical prophecies that say that the control of Jerusalem by the "Jews" is important for the second coming of Christ. And when the chosen ones of God (the "Jews") destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque and something about killing red cows, a third of the "Jews" are killed, and the not-so-chosen-ones escape to heaven in a secret rapture to be Jesus' wife.

Basically, the whole goal of this doctrine is for the not-so-chosen-ones to usher all the chosen ones to Jerusalem so they can be killed, and the main church (depending on your denomination) will be secretly raptured off to heaven to be safe when the evil Muslims take over the world.

Is that the gist of it?

 

[Barraco]

As I understand your thoughts (correct me if I'm wrong), this entire end-times belief is based upon some biblical prophecies that say that the control of Jerusalem by the "Jews" is important for the second coming of Christ. And when the chosen ones of God (the "Jews") destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque and something about killing red cows, a third of the "Jews" are killed, and the not-so-chosen-ones escape to heaven in a secret rapture to be Jesus' wife.

Basically, the whole goal of this doctrine is for the not-so-chosen-ones to usher all the chosen ones to Jerusalem so they can be killed, and the main church (depending on your denomination) will be secretly raptured off to heaven to be safe when the evil Muslims take over the world.

Is that the gist of it?

Noooooo I don’t know how you got that from my post, but I’ll explain anyway.


1) The seven seals are the restoration of Israel in Palestine and defeat of the Islamic Republic (Ezekiel 36-39)
2) The seven trumpets are the seven year reign of the ten-horned beast (post-war division of Gog/Magog territories along the Mediterranean Sea with Jerusalem as its headquarters).
3) The mouth of the beast (false messiah) conquers many nations and deceives/compels people to worship him by means of the false prophet.
4) The false messiah will conquer Jerusalem once the testimony of the two-witnesses is complete.
5) Then Jesus will gather his people to Himself and slay the armies led by the false messiah against Jerusalem.

 

[Abraxos]

Noooooo I don’t know how you got that from my post, but I’ll explain anyway.


1) The seven seals are the restoration of Israel in Palestine and defeat of the Islamic Republic (Ezekiel 36-39)
2) The seven trumpets are the seven year reign of the ten-horned beast (post-war division of Gog/Magog territories along the Mediterranean Sea with Jerusalem as its headquarters).
3) The mouth of the beast (false messiah) conquers many nations and deceives/compels people to worship him by means of the false prophet.
4) The false messiah will conquer Jerusalem once the testimony of the two-witnesses is complete.
5) Then Jesus will gather his people to Himself and slay the armies led by the false messiah against Jerusalem.

Isn't that also connected to what I have pointed out? You know, the secret raptures, the red cows (in connection to the third temple being built), the chosen ones' ethnic cleansing of Palestinians...

Sorry, back on topic, my thoughts are that I actually agree with you that I don't think it's a coincidence that the Palestinian flag mirrors the colours of the four horsemen, however, under the premise that these four horsemen are servants from heaven and not agents of the devil as how the not-so-chosen-ones have interpreted them to mean.

I take it that you believe that the four horsemen are as follows:

The White Horse - Antichrist
The Red Horse - War
The Black Horse - Famine
The Green Horse - Death

There is a more biblically sound interpretation that does support my thoughts, And I'll theme them with a word:

The White Horse - Victory
The Red Horse - Awakening
The Black Horse - Justice
The Green Horse - Judgment

Spoiler: An example to support my view. I can be a bit wordy

The Fourth Seal = Judgment

Rev 6:6-7 - "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hell was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

These four judgments appear to allude to the judgment of Jerusalem (as in the church, as Peter stated, judgment begins with God's household) according to Ezekiel 14:21 – where the same judgments are decreed upon her.

Eze 14:21 - “For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals!

"to kill with sword,"

This sword is called a Rhomphaia sword in Greek, a large, intimidating barbarian sword feared by the Romans. In conjunction with biblical references to the Rhomphaia, the sword is a physical weapon, but it is very frequently used as a metaphor for the tongue. In every Bible verse, all are in reference to Christ being depicted with a sword coming from His mouth to slay His enemies.

So, “to kill with sword” means this green horse rider is given authority to kill with the mouth of Christ or use the word of God to slay.

"and famine,"

Amos 8:11-12 "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign LORD, "when I will send a famine through the land -- not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD. Men will stagger from the sea to sea and wander from the north to east, searching for the word of the LORD, but they will not find it."

---

Additionally, the four living beasts attributed to each horse are the same beasts that surround the throne of heaven. (Rev. 4:6-7) And they're what the prophet Ezekiel saw (Ezk. 1:5-14) - they're, to my understanding, angels:

1. Lion (with a voice like thunder...)
2. Ox
3. Man
4. Eagle

Further study will bring you to the knowledge that these four living beasts are the same as the head tribes of the ancient Israelites when they camped around the Tabernacle in the wilderness (Num. 2:2):

1. Judah, the banner of the Lion
2. Ephraim, banner of the Ox
3. Reuben, the banner of Man
4. Dan, the banner of the Eagle

To be continued...

There is also the context that I believe that the Palestinians fulfil the prophecy of the assembly of Smyrna (Rev 2:8-11), which in turn exposes the slanderers, those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Rev. 2:8-11) Man, I can speak about this all day...

Spoiler

Palestinian Christians forcefully expelled from their family's land in Al-Makhrour, Bethlehem, where they had lived for generations. Picture of Alice Kisyia confronting the chosen ones.

x.com

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My thoughts, as you can see, are very different to dispensationalists' interpretations, and I am quite critical of them and good reason to be. It ignores biblical hermeneutics and common decency for humanity.

 

[Barraco]

Isn't that also connected to what I have pointed out? You know, the secret raptures, the red cows (in connection to the third temple being built), the chosen ones' ethnic cleansing of Palestinians...

Sorry, back on topic, my thoughts are that I actually agree with you that I don't think it's a coincidence that the Palestinian flag mirrors the colours of the four horsemen, however, under the premise that these four horsemen are servants from heaven and not agents of the devil as how the not-so-chosen-ones have interpreted them to mean.

I don't believe in secret raptures. Not sure on the red heifers yet. In Zechariah 6, the horsemen rode out to survey the world regarding His judgments on the Jews and Jerusalem. The theme behind it was to bring the remaining Jews that were exiled back to the holy land and Jerusalem. In Revelation 6, the four horsemen accomplish the same purpose. In context to Israel today, there are still Jews living among the Gentiles. Every one of the seals bring them back home and bring the promises God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to fulfillment.

I take it that you believe that the four horsemen are as follows:

The White Horse - Antichrist
The Red Horse - War
The Black Horse - Famine
The Green Horse - Death

There is a more biblically sound interpretation that does support my thoughts, And I'll theme them with a word:

The White Horse - Victory
The Red Horse - Awakening
The Black Horse - Justice
The Green Horse - Judgment

Spoiler: An example to support my view. I can be a bit wordy

The Fourth Seal = Judgment

Rev 6:6-7 - "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hell was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

These four judgments appear to allude to the judgment of Jerusalem (as in the church, as Peter stated, judgment begins with God's household) according to Ezekiel 14:21 – where the same judgments are decreed upon her.

Eze 14:21 - “For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals!

"to kill with sword,"

This sword is called a Rhomphaia sword in Greek, a large, intimidating barbarian sword feared by the Romans. In conjunction with biblical references to the Rhomphaia, the sword is a physical weapon, but it is very frequently used as a metaphor for the tongue. In every Bible verse, all are in reference to Christ being depicted with a sword coming from His mouth to slay His enemies.

So, “to kill with sword” means this green horse rider is given authority to kill with the mouth of Christ or use the word of God to slay.

"and famine,"

Amos 8:11-12 "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign LORD, "when I will send a famine through the land -- not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD. Men will stagger from the sea to sea and wander from the north to east, searching for the word of the LORD, but they will not find it."

---

Spoiler: An example to support my view. I can be a bit wordy

No, I associate the judgments connected to the four horsemen as things that drive God's people back to the holy land. Zechariah 6 showed that colors of the horsemen were associated with the direction they rode out. The white horse went west, the red horse went east, the black horse went north, and green (pale) horse went south.

White horse: After the Holocaust in Europe, the nation of Israel was restored (May 14, 1948). They settled in Tel Aviv, which is west of Jerusalem. The day after Israel became a nation, the Arabs attacked. The Arab-Israeli wars have been happening ever since. This lines up with what Jesus said in Matthew 24, that there would be wars and rumors of wars. Israel has conquered territory after every war, which has been used to settle more Jews.

Red horse: The Islamic Revolutions that began in the late 1970's sparked jihad and militant groups that caused bloodshed throughout the region and the rest of the world, all over the presence of Jews in Palestine. These revolutionary movements took over Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and many other countries, driving the Jews out of each one of them.

Black horse: Ezekiel 36 makes the case that God would turn the curses of the law against the nations while He restored Israel and Jerusalem. The nations around Israel, especially, Lebanon and Gaza, have suffered tremendously from inflation as a result of sanctions levied against them for having governments run by terrorist organizations Hezbollah and Hamas. The Gaza Blockade turned Gaza into an open-air prison while Covid-19 caused inflation to skyrocket to 260% year-over-year and demolished Lebanon's economy. Israel, on the other hand, experienced only 5.3% inflation rate, making Israel a stable economic partner and thriving place to live.

Green horse: Ezekiel 33:27-29 indicates that the judgments of sword, famine, plague, and wild beasts represent desolation. This curse is turned agains the nations that seek to destroy Israel. It says a quarter of the earth was killed by these plagues. Since there are four horsemen riding in four different directions, we can safely assume that the desolation goes in one of those directions. As a result of the Yom Kippur Massacre, Israel has hunted down Hamas terrorists responsible for the attack and hostages. Hamas agents hid among the Palestinians in public areas thinking it would deter Israeli retaliation. Instead, Israel turned the entire Gaza Strip into a wasteland. Do not be surprised when Israel decides to claim this land as its own and resettle it with Jews. It's been foretold.

Additionally, the four living beasts attributed to each horse are the same beasts that surround the throne of heaven. (Rev. 4:6-7) And they're what the prophet Ezekiel saw (Ezk. 1:5-14) - they're, to my understanding, angels:

1. Lion (with a voice like thunder...)
2. Ox
3. Man
4. Eagle

Further study will bring you to the knowledge that these four living beasts are the same as the head tribes of the ancient Israelites when they camped around the Tabernacle in the wilderness (Num. 2:2):

1. Judah, the banner of the Lion
2. Ephraim, banner of the Ox
3. Reuben, the banner of Man
4. Dan, the banner of the Eagle

To be continued...

There is also the context that I believe that the Palestinians fulfil the prophecy of the assembly of Smyrna (Rev 2:8-11), which in turn exposes the slanderers, those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Rev. 2:8-11) Man, I can speak about this all day...

Spoiler

Palestinian Christians forcefully expelled from their family's land in Al-Makhrour, Bethlehem, where they had lived for generations. Picture of Alice Kisyia confronting the chosen ones.
View attachment 353817

x.com

x.com

My thoughts, as you can see, are very different to dispensationalists' interpretations, and I am quite critical of them and good reason to be. It ignores biblical hermeneutics and common decency for humanity.

As I have shown, the Israelites have expanded into all the territories of Palestine, displacing the Arabs and settling more Jews in the territory (West Bank, Golan Heights, and Gaza Strip). If my interpretation is correct, I believe Hezbollah will chase out the Maronite Christians of Lebanon, which will bring the gospel to Israel and Jerusalem. Lebanon will become a doorway for the forces of Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, and Sudan. I believe this will happen very soon, especially since Israel thwarted Hezbollah's massive retaliation by preemptively striking their rocket depot.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Every one of the seals bring them back home and bring the promises God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to fulfillment.

Can you explain your view in light of the following?
Galatians 3:
15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.

17What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.

19Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator is unnecessary, however, for only one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, then, opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

2 Corinthians 1:20For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God.

Ezekiel 36 was prophesying the restoration of Israel after the Babylonian exile. Was the following not all fulfilled at the time of the apostles? See acts 2:5
Ezekiel 36:24For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all the countries, and I will bring you back into your own land. 25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.

 

[Barraco]

Can you explain your view in light of the following?
Galatians 3:
15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.

17What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.

19Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator is unnecessary, however, for only one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, then, opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

2 Corinthians 1:20For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God.

Ezekiel 36 was prophesying the restoration of Israel after the Babylonian exile. Was the following not all fulfilled at the time of the apostles? See acts 2:5
Ezekiel 36:24For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all the countries, and I will bring you back into your own land. 25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.

The Abrahamic Covenant

Land: God promised Abraham that his descendants would inherit the land of Canaan. This is often referred to as the "Promised Land" (Genesis 12:1, Genesis 15:7, Genesis 17:8).

Descendants: God assured Abraham that his descendants would become a great nation, as numerous as the stars in the sky (Genesis 12:2, Genesis 15:5, Genesis 17:2).

Blessing to All Nations: God promised that through Abraham’s descendants, all nations of the earth would be blessed (Genesis 12:3, Genesis 22:18).

This is being fulfilled before our eyes. There should be no doubt about how to interpret the promises now. Because of Jesus, we Gentiles are included in the promises. We are not a replacement. Even in Romans 11, Paul affirmed this theology. He did not state that Israel had been done away with. Even if the whole nation rejects God's Anointed One, God will still elect a remnant from the tribes of Israel to always be faithful to God.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

The Abrahamic Covenant

Land: God promised Abraham that his descendants would inherit the land of Canaan. This is often referred to as the "Promised Land" (Genesis 12:1, Genesis 15:7, Genesis 17:8).

Descendants: God assured Abraham that his descendants would become a great nation, as numerous as the stars in the sky (Genesis 12:2, Genesis 15:5, Genesis 17:2).

Blessing to All Nations: God promised that through Abraham’s descendants, all nations of the earth would be blessed (Genesis 12:3, Genesis 22:18).

This is being fulfilled before our eyes. There should be no doubt about how to interpret the promises now. Because of Jesus, we Gentiles are included in the promises. We are not a replacement. Even in Romans 11, Paul affirmed this theology. He did not state that Israel had been done away with. Even if the whole nation rejects God's Anointed One, God will still elect a remnant from the tribes of Israel to always be faithful to God.

Modern day Jews are not Abraham's descendants according to the promise, we are.
Acts 3:
21Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Did Jesus come in 1948? Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to "declare things to come" John 16:13. He never mentioned anything about restoring their nation again.
22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you. 23Everyone who does not listen to Him will be completely cut off from among his people.
What inheritance would those who were cut off have left?
24Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have proclaimed these days.
Why would Peter say "these days" instead of "these days and a generation yet to come"? None of the apostles ever mention a generation yet to come

Galatians 3:
15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed(descendant) and heirs according to the promise.

Judaism without the law is like Christianity without Christ. It doesn't exist.

Consider this fact.
Biblical Israel was a theocracy, modern Israel is a democracy which doesn't even enforce the Sabbath. And what's the penalty under the law for not keeping the Sabbath?
Exodus 31:14Therefore you are to keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it must be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

 

[Barraco]

Modern day Jews are not Abraham's descendants according to the promise, we are.
Acts 3:
21Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Did Jesus come in 1948? Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to "declare things to come" John 16:13. He never mentioned anything about restoring their nation again.
22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you. 23Everyone who does not listen to Him will be completely cut off from among his people.
What inheritance would those who were cut off have left?
24Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have proclaimed these days.
Why would Peter say "these days" instead of "these days and a generation yet to come"? None of the apostles ever mention a generation yet to come

Galatians 3:
15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed(descendant) and heirs according to the promise.

Judaism without the law is like Christianity without Christ. It doesn't exist.

Consider this fact.
Biblical Israel was a theocracy, modern Israel is a democracy which doesn't even enforce the Sabbath. And what's the penalty under the law for not keeping the Sabbath?
Exodus 31:14Therefore you are to keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it must be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

I don’t agree. God does not leave His promises up to chance. They are not replaced. We are included. Jesus could easily raise up descendants of Abraham from rocks on the Temple Mount. How much easier to bring people with Israelite blood back to the holy land and holy city? For man, this is impossible, but not for God.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

I don’t agree. God does not leave His promises up to chance. They are not replaced. We are included. Jesus could easily raise up descendants of Abraham from rocks on the Temple Mount. How much easier to bring people with Israelite blood back to the holy land and holy city? For man, this is impossible, but not for God.

What do you disagree with? My basic argument is based on this:
Galatians 3:
15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed(descendant) and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Barraco]

What do you disagree with? My basic argument is based on this:
Galatians 3:
15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed(descendant) and heirs according to the promise.

He only meant to say that God's promises are by faith. By faith, we are included as recipients of the promises. We are not the replacement of the Jews. You'll see in the coming days.