Protestant conflicting logic reading the early fathers and the Bible

[J3thekingofking]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants. Eg, many early Christian leaders doesn't sounds like Calvinist at all.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

 

[trophy33]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Nope. The Old Testament was created by Jews during several centuries.

The New Testament was created mostly by apostles, but not exclusively (Luke, Mark, possibly Apollo).

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants.

And not just by protestants. Some early Christian leaders are even called heretics by the RCC.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

There is a plethora of views about the Bible in protestantism. However, Scriptures are generally viewed to be above church tradition and historically especially above the Roman Catholic Church tradition.

 

[J3thekingofking]

Nope. The Old Testament was created by Jews during several centuries.

The New Testament was created mostly by apostles, but not exclusively (Luke, Mark, possibly Apollo).


And not just by protestants. Some early Christian leaders are even called heretics by the RCC.


There is a plethora of views about the Bible in protestantism. However, Scriptures are generally viewed to be above church tradition and historically especially above the Roman Catholic Church tradition.

For RC, tradition is equal level as Bible

 

[trophy33]

For RC, tradition is equal level as Bible

Thats possible. However, this tradition is carefully selected by the Roman Catholic Church, its not just "any tradition".

 

[HTacianas]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants. Eg, many early Christian leaders doesn't sounds like Calvinist at all.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

Yet there is not one single protestant denomination that holds to the bible.

 

[Jermayn]

Yet there is not one single protestant denomination that holds to the bible.

None of them believe in salvation though Jesus Christ alone?

 

[HTacianas]

None of them believe in salvation though Jesus Christ alone?

None of them believe that willful sin after baptism results in condemnation.

 

[com7fy8]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Well, the ones who created the Bible chose which writings they would canonize. But God has given us whatever is really His word.

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants. Eg, many early Christian leaders doesn't sounds like Calvinist at all.

Well, those "Some" might or might not have really been church leaders. In any case, I find the Bible to have and to share so much more than many a Christian has ever told me. But, even so, a genuine mature Christian can minister more and deeper than what any words alone can tell. God uses His word with examples to demonstrate, and He says we are His "epistle of Christ" > 2 Corinthians 3:3. So, in case we are the message of God, are we not Canon Scripture?

Not to mention . . . I did not personally know those people who are said to be early church fathers, and later ministers and priests. But I can know an example, today.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

Each one can speak for oneself. Of course, you can find a person here or there who puts one's own views above God's word. And any of us can interpret the Bible according to how we really are in our own character. And our own character can be our magnet which attracts us to the people we use to represent everyone of some group. If you are looking for fault in Christianity, your character can attract you to so-called Protestants who are maybe not honest and objective in their representation of God's word.

What can help a lot is to discover a person who is an example of humility and compassion of Jesus, and this one can help you to get with God and find out how to love. Anyone else needs you to care about him or her, pray and be a good example for him or her, so that person can discover how to love in sharing with God.

If you find a phony one, then, care about the person and pray for the person, instead of deciding that phony one represents all the other people of some group!

 

[jas3]

Early Protestantism was more grounded in patristics, although some disputed the authenticity of various works. For example, Calvin objected to the authenticity of the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, which in all fairness may have been plausible according to the scholarship of his time, but today seven of his letters are universally accepted as authentic. There is still a great deal of appreciation for the Church Fathers within traditional Protestantism, such as Anglo-Catholicism and some parts of Lutheranism and Calvinism. Unfortunately, that is a very small minority of Protestants today, and many self-proclaimed Protestants proudly reject patristics altogether and live by nothing but their personal interpretation of the Bible. This has led to the emergence of some truly bizarre movements, especially in the last century.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

Traditional Protestants believe that the Bible is the "final standard," but would say that it's not necessarily the only rule of faith. Again, that's a minority view, but in my opinion the only one worth talking about since less traditional views essentially do amount to "their interpretation above anything else."

 

[Valletta]

Nope. The Old Testament was created by Jews during several centuries.

The New Testament was created mostly by apostles, but not exclusively (Luke, Mark, possibly Apollo).


And not just by protestants. Some early Christian leaders are even called heretics by the RCC.


There is a plethora of views about the Bible in protestantism. However, Scriptures are generally viewed to be above church tradition and historically especially above the Roman Catholic Church tradition.

The Apostolic Tradition of the Catholic Church, the Word of God, the deposit of the faith, is today spoken of by Catholics as two separate by deeply connected parts--Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. All of the Word of God is given equal weight--one part is not above another. When the Bible tells us to stand fast to traditions we were taught, by word of mouth or letter, it does not refer to all mere traditions of the Catholic Church, it refers to SACRED Tradition.

 

[trophy33]

The Apostolic Tradition of the Catholic Church, the Word of God, the deposit of the faith, is today spoken of by Catholics as two separate by deeply connected parts--Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. All of the Word of God is given equal weight--one part is not above another. When the Bible tells us to stand fast to traditions we were taught, by word of mouth or letter, it does not refer to all mere traditions of the Catholic Church, it refers to SACRED Tradition.

Therefore? I am not sure what you are reacting to.

 

[Valletta]

Therefore? I am not sure what you are reacting to.

A clarification in case there is a misunderstanding. The word "tradition" gets tossed around a lot.

 

[Stephen3141]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants. Eg, many early Christian leaders doesn't sounds like Calvinist at all.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

You bring up a good topic.
And it is a topic that has a number of VERY DIFFERENT assumptions,
in different theologies.

The topic of Authority:
Who has the authority to declare the writings that are in the canon?

The topic of interpretting the Scriptures.
Who has the authority to claim that their interpretation of Scripture, is correct.
---------- ----------

Protestant Fundamentalists reject that there was a STRUCTURE of
authoritative Church leadership, put in place by Christ (through the Apostles).
So, their theologies often include that the AUTHORITY to declare which
writings are in the canon of the Bible, comes directly from the Holy Spirit.
... The problem with this assumption, is that there is no "decision algorithm"
to indicate clearly who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

High Church Protestants, and Catholic Christians, accept that Christ gave
"all authority in heaven and in earth" to the original Apostles. And, this
authority is reflected in the canonical biblical teachings, and also in the
leadership of the Church that the Apostles appointed, generation by
generation.
... the outcome of this doctrine is that it was the leadership of the early
Church, appointed by the Apostles, that authoritatively recognized
Apostolic teaching, and identified writings that should be in the canon
of the New Testament. Also, this leadership was authoritative in
interrpetting the Scriptures.
---------- ----------

Many of the Protestant Reformation leaders, do not accept the second
view of authority in the Church. And, this shows up in their different
theologies.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

However, Scriptures are generally viewed to be above church tradition and historically especially above the Roman Catholic Church tradition.

And that sounds illogical since scripture came from church tradition.

 

[trophy33]

And that sounds illogical since scripture came from church tradition.

Jesus was born from Mary and is still superior to her. Or He is from Israel, but is still above Israel. Etc.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Jesus was born from Mary and is still superior to her. Or He is from Israel, but is still above Israel. Etc.

So scripture has a life of its own and supersedes its source? I don't think so.

Jesus was a person, the incarnate Word of God.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

None of them believe that willful sin after baptism results in condemnation.

Some of them do. In fact, some Protestants, such as those in the Campbellite movement, believe a Christian could possibly lose his salvation if he isn't careful to walk by faith and remain in the faith. Compare this with Southern Baptists who, more or less, believe that a Christian is "Once Save, Always Saved."

 

[trophy33]

So scripture has a life of its own and supersedes its source? I don't think so.

Jesus was a person, the incarnate Word of God.

And Scripture is inspired. It has both human and God's origin. Thats why its above a purely human tradition.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants. Eg, many early Christian leaders doesn't sounds like Calvinist at all.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

Isn't this a Controversial Theology topic rather than one for Christian Philosophy?

 

[Niels]

The early Christians leaders created the Bible.

Some early Christian leaders" teaching are rejected by the protestants. Eg, many early Christian leaders doesn't sounds like Calvinist at all.

Protestant argue that they put the Bible above anything else? But strictly speaking, it's their interpretation above anything else?

Putting the Bible first shouldn't imply remaining ignorant of Church history. The insights and interpretations of early Christian thinkers are still worth learning, as are insights and interpretations of contemporary Christian thinkers. To categorically dismiss either would be a mistake. Human nature hasn't changed, and many of the topics that arise today were previously explored by early believers. The Bible should be interpreted thoughtfully and prayerfully. Context is important. Both in terms of its passages and the context in which it was written and compiled.