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Question to protestants about Faith Alone

Xeno.of.athens

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So i was watching a random video on youtube featuring a guy named Jeff Durbin, who I eventually researched and found out he is a sidekick to James White's (i think he is at least). Anyway, i found him to be the typical arrogant protestant who just dictates, accuses, and insists what Catholics believe him no matter what is being told to him. I was listening closely as to what he thinks about the whole faith by works, and how he eventually tries to brag and praise himself about how he is the one truly saved because being a christian. So he speaks about the 7 sacraments, purgatory, and just how faith alone is just biblically true and tries to bully random catholics about it.

Here is the video for your reference:


So my question is this. If protestants believe that strongly about faith alone, then why do they care so much to the point that they feel the need to throw out condemnation, judgment, and demonizing at us for how we practice and worship God? Us doing the wrong thing like the sacraments, praying to saints, and whatever wouldn't mean much anyway since it's all about faith alone, right?
It appears that the Catholic and the preacher are at odds in their teachings. Catholics believe that salvation comes through God's grace via faith, and this grace is not earned by being good or worthy; otherwise, it wouldn't be considered grace, just as mercy wouldn't be mercy if it were deserved. Since salvation is by unmerited grace, no one can claim they are saved because their deeds make them deserving. The preacher seems to suggest that faith alone is the cause of salvation, rather than grace. If salvation is due to faith alone, then one's lifestyle becomes inconsequential, implying that one will be saved solely based on their faith, regardless of their actions. This ideology is flawed, as Saint Paul criticizes the notion that Christians should do evil so that grace may increase.
 
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eleos1954

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1131 The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. The visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament. They bear fruit in those who receive them with the required dispositions.
If baptism is "required" then that is a work (something that can be done) ... the bible says our works are filthily rags ... that would also mean assuming "works" of others are filthy rags as well.
 
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Valletta

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If baptism is "required" then that is a work (something that can be done) ... the bible says our works are filthily rags ... that would also mean assuming "works" of others are filthy rags as well.
I would not call something instituted by Christ, something stressed so much in the Bible and that God's Word tells us saves us, a "filthy rag."
 
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ARBITER01

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If baptism is "required" then that is a work (something that can be done) ... the bible says our works are filthily rags ... that would also mean assuming "works" of others are filthy rags as well.

Not that I'm some sort of water regenerationalist, but Jesus was water immersed prior to Him receiving The Holy Spirit, and His example is ours to follow. So if it is considered a work, it is one of His works that we are to do,...

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you the one believing into Me, the works which I do, shall that one do also, and greater than these shall he do, because I am going to My Father.

His works are the ones that correspond with faith and righteousness.
 
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eleos1954

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Not that I'm some sort of water regenerationalist, but Jesus was water immersed prior to Him receiving The Holy Spirit, and His example is ours to follow. So if it is considered a work, it is one of His works that we are to do,...

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you the one believing into Me, the works which I do, shall that one do also, and greater than these shall he do, because I am going to My Father.

His works are the ones that correspond with faith and righteousness.
Baptism symbolizes a death, burial and resurrection, which is the reason we are to be baptized by immersion. The word “baptizo” means to immerse. It symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and it shows the death of the old sinner in the one being baptized.

Jesus had no sin.

Jesus was baptized because He was representing the human race, symbolic of Himself as a sacrifice in our place.
It wasn't a work ... it was symbolic of salvation available through Christ alone.

We should never assume that Jesus was “baptized” with the Holy Spirit. He was not. Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit ... was born perfect and remained perfect. Both God and man.

Jesus was already Holy before the Holy Spirit landed on Him. Remember, Angel Gabriel announced Jesus as the Son of God before He was even Born. Luke 1:35

The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Jesus was already a mix of the Divine and the human before his baptism. He was never just a man to begin with. He was already Holy and titled as Son of God when He was born. By the very same Angel that announced John the Baptist.

Jesus baptism was symbolic of the salvation that is available through Him ... Christ who is our righteous. His righteous ... not ours. It wasn't a work performed by Him ... it was to serve as a revelation of how salvation is available ... through Him. Our baptism is a outward symbol of a change that has already taken place inside and so we often get baptized to proclaim/testify of the inner change ... accepting Christ as Lord and Savior.

Jesus wasn't baptized for the same reasons that us believers are baptized. Instead, his baptism confirms his identity as the Messiah, and demonstrates his willingness to take on humanity to be the perfect atonement for all sin and death.

Water Baptism is not what saves you, Jesus saves through His righteousness (not through His act or our act of Baptism itself).
 
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ARBITER01

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Baptism symbolizes a death, burial and resurrection, which is the reason we are to be baptized by immersion. The word “baptizo” means to immerse. It symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and it shows the death of the old sinner in the one being baptized.

Jesus had no sin.

Jesus was baptized because He was representing the human race, symbolic of Himself as a sacrifice in our place.
It wasn't a work ... it was symbolic of salvation available through Christ alone.

We should never assume that Jesus was “baptized” with the Holy Spirit. He was not. Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit ... was born perfect and remained perfect. Both God and man.

Jesus was already Holy before the Holy Spirit landed on Him. Remember, Angel Gabriel announced Jesus as the Son of God before He was even Born. Luke 1:35

The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Jesus was already a mix of the Divine and the human before his baptism. He was never just a man to begin with. He was already Holy and titled as Son of God when He was born. By the very same Angel that announced John the Baptist.

Jesus baptism was symbolic of the salvation that is available through Him ... Christ who is our righteous. His righteous ... not ours. It wasn't a work performed by Him ... it was to serve as a revelation of how salvation is available ... through Him. Our baptism is a outward symbol of a change that has already taken place inside and so we often get baptized to proclaim/testify of the inner change ... accepting Christ as Lord and Savior.

Jesus wasn't baptized for the same reasons that us believers are baptized. Instead, his baptism confirms his identity as the Messiah, and demonstrates his willingness to take on humanity to be the perfect atonement for all sin and death.

Water Baptism is not what saves you, Jesus saves through His righteousness (not through His act or our act of Baptism itself).

Did you really need to waste all that time typing that?

Why don't you re-read what I posted and answer it better instead of giving a thesis on baptism that I have no need of?
 
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Valletta

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Water Baptism is not what saves you, Jesus saves through His righteousness (not through His act or our act of Baptism itself).
Jesus saves us through the sacrament of Baptism. As the Bible says, Baptism saves you:

1 Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE
 
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If baptism is "required" then that is a work (something that can be done) ... the bible says our works are filthily rags ... that would also mean assuming "works" of others are filthy rags as well.
It is a work commanded by God. The effect of the work is not from the form and matter alone
I can immerse or sprinkle anyone with water, and it does not result in justification.

The justification is in the surrender and obedience as well as following the example of Christ to fulfill all righteousness. He also says unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

When one is born again, we have a heart for obedience so we enter baptism

If one claims to be born again yet refuses baptism which was commanded by Christ Himself “He who believes and is baptized will be saved”, the question arises if one was born again at all or just paying lip service to Christ.
A person born again does not refuse to obey a direct command of his Lord. That is nonsensical, therefore we say baptism is required.
 
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eleos1954

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I would not call something instituted by Christ, something stressed so much in the Bible and that God's Word tells us saves us, a "filthy rag."
If you think baptism will save you ... it's something that you can do (works) ... it's about what is the motivation of why one is doing it. Our works are indeed filthy rags ... so says His written word. Baptism is an outward testimony of a change that has happened inside.

Everything is through Christ and what He does ... not us.

John 15:5

King James Bible
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus saves us through the sacrament of Baptism. As the Bible says, Baptism saves you:

1 Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE
Peter also says that baptism is an "antitype" that saves people through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

It's not about the water or the act of being baptized ... it's about Christ.

Jesus did not baptize others as it was a ritual to prepare the people to receive Christ and that was the responsibility of leaders such as John the Baptist to prepare them. When John the Baptist Baptizes Jesus, God sends a dove and proclaims to John that Jesus clearly was the messiah (Matthew 3:13–17).

If it were a requirement for people to be baptized why didn't Jesus do it?
 
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eleos1954

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It is a work commanded by God. The effect of the work is not from the form and matter alone
I can immerse or sprinkle anyone with water, and it does not result in justification.

The justification is in the surrender and obedience as well as following the example of Christ to fulfill all righteousness. He also says unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

When one is born again, we have a heart for obedience so we enter baptism

If one claims to be born again yet refuses baptism which was commanded by Christ Himself “He who believes and is baptized will be saved”, the question arises if one was born again at all or just paying lip service to Christ.
A person born again does not refuse to obey a direct command of his Lord. That is nonsensical, therefore we say baptism is required.
The biblical practice of baptism demonstrates a person’s commitment to Jesus Christ.

By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 2:38; 16:30-33; 22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12, 13.)

Baptism not a way to earn salvation. Instead, baptism is a public expression of faith in Jesus Christ, who has already saved people through his death. Baptism is an outward demonstration that a person has accepted Jesus's gift of salvation and is willing to follow him in death.
 
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eleos1954

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Does it? Really? What passages tells you that is what baptism demonstrates?
Ephesians 2

8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Baptism is not necessary for salvation because salvation is achieved through faith alone, as stated in the New Testament. For example, Acts 3:19, Acts 10:43-48, Romans 10:9, and Ephesians 2:8-9 all indicate that salvation is by faith alone, and that people were saved by faith before Christ's death and resurrection, even though they were not baptized. Abraham and the thief on the cross are examples of this.

Baptism is seen as a symbol of what has already happened in the heart of someone who has trusted Christ as their savior. It is also seen as an outward expression of faith. Baptism is not an absolute necessity for salvation, making it a requirement would be an attack on the sufficiency of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I was born and raised in Massena, NY, about two miles from Quebec. Massena has just as many Catholics, if not more, than Protestants. My neighbors and schoolmates were Catholic. We all got along great! Some of my best friends and one steady girl were Catholic. My brother married a Catholic girl, and my stepmother was Catholic. I even attended mass on occasion. So when I read this kind of stuff, I don't know what you are talking about. I have some good CF friends who are Catholic. Do we agree on everything.... certainly not. But I can find fellowship in the things we agree on.
The typical Protestant I encounter is a decent individual, kind, and capable of both listening and articulating their views in a discussion. Most do not claim that Catholics are not Christians or that devotion to Mary amounts to idolatry. However, some do express these views, and certain street evangelists can be aggressively sectarian. When I listened to the video mentioned in the original post and watched some of James White's debates, it became evident that their goal is indeed to convert Catholics to their version of Protestantism, believing this will lead to salvation. Similarly, John MacArthur has posted videos on YouTube asserting that, in his view, Catholicism is not a Christian denomination.

As a Catholic, I take joy in my faith. I offer prayers to God, seek intercession from the saints, and request prayers from God's angels for myself and my loved ones. I appreciate Christian art, icons, bas-reliefs, and statues, and I find that praying before these artworks, which teach me about Jesus, enhances my worship. To me, there is nothing idolatrous in this practice; the icons and statues are not objects of worship but visual aids that assist me in focusing on God, similar to how the Bible supports my devotion. I wonder, if someone is offended by these practices, why would they go out of their way to criticize them? What benefit does such criticism bring?
 
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The biblical practice of baptism demonstrates a person’s commitment to Jesus Christ.

By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and acceptance of their teachings. (Matt. 28:19, 20; Acts 2:38; 16:30-33; 22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12, 13.)

Baptism not a way to earn salvation. Instead, baptism is a public expression of faith in Jesus Christ, who has already saved people through his death. Baptism is an outward demonstration that a person has accepted Jesus's gift of salvation and is willing to follow him in death.
Like I said, but if you do not do it, you are disobeying a command. This act of disobedience puts the soul’s salvation in question. Why would a soul claim faith in Christ and have his first act to be disobedience? Why not be as the Ethiopian Eunuch that was converted and said (paraphrase) there is water right there what is to prevent me from being baptized?
There is no humble, obedient way to refuse baptism. Those that do so, put their souls at risk unnecessarily. You can say I have faith in Jesus, but Jesus told you to get Baptized, so what’s the problem?

Several scriptures come to mind.

If you love me, keep my commandments. Those that love Jesus will wholeheartedly get baptized and have the members of their house baptized.

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Can God save a soul without Baptism? Certainly, He is God. There is the Baptism of desire and the Baptism of blood, those that die before they are able, yet would have obeyed if they had the opportunity, and those that die a martyr’s death upon conversion.

We learn from Jesus’ temptation by Satan in the desert, just because something is in scripture , it is not always a good idea. Those that refuse Baptism are as those that would throw themselves off the tower to prove God would save them, but will God save them? I cannot answer that definitively. God has mercy on those that are ignorant. Forgive them Father, they don’t know what they are doing, but God is never obligated to save anyone. Because if He was, it would no longer be love but rather debt. For love to be love, it must be free.

God also says, I desire obedience rather than sacrifice. Those that refuse Baptism would be those that say, Not so Lord. I believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, so I do not have to obey. Really? Did they read the Bible?

That is why regeneration is not complete until a soul submits to Baptism. A regenerate disobedient soul is oxymoronic, it just does not exist.

We call Baptism the instrumental cause of justification for this reason. It is not faith that saves. Faith is just another outward sign of an inward reality as you say. The reality of justification is that we are saved BY grace, through faith, it is not of yourselves, and grace would not regenerate a soul just to have them disobey, that would make the word of God of no effect. Ephesians 2:8-10. We are saved unto good works and our first good work is obedience by being Baptized. Would not saying a sinner’s prayer and asking Jesus into your heart also be a work? You do have to move your body to do it.

We also see in 1 Cor 13 that the theological virtues, the ones that come from God alone by grace alone are Faith, Hope and Charity, not faith alone. 1 Cor 13 even says if I have faith to move mountains, yet have not Charity, I am nothing. Charity is not just loving people and being nice. It is divine love, which is whole hearted obedience to the commands of Our Lord, even if the whole world thinks it foolish. We can also see in 1 Cor 13, if we have not Charity, our words become as a tinkling cymbal or a sounding brass. They are nothing because they mean nothing without obedience.

You can believe anything you want about Baptism. God gives you free will, and it is not my words that will convince you. Scripture says no one comes to obedience in Christ unless the Father draws him (paraphrase). Given all of scripture, if you refuse Baptism, I would not want to be you before the judgement seat of Christ. You risk being among the goats that say Lord, Lord, and He says I never knew you.

That is too scary a thought for me. I am baptized along with my house. I pray for your soul, peace be with you
 
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Ain't Zwinglian

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Baptism is an outward testimony of a change that has happened inside.
Chapter and verse please.
If it were a requirement for people to be baptized why didn't Jesus do it?
Jesus didn't institute baptismal practice until after his resurrection but before His ascension. The first Christian baptisms occurred on the Day of Pentecost.
Baptism is seen as a symbol of what has already happened in the heart of someone who has trusted Christ as their savior.
Chapter and verse please.
The biblical practice of baptism demonstrates a person’s commitment to Jesus Christ.
Chapter and verse please.
Our baptism is a outward symbol of a change that has already taken place inside and so we often get baptized to proclaim/testify of the inner change .
Chapter and verse please
Protestants view is being baptized is a outward symbol of a change that has taken place inside.
Chapter and verse please.
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus saves us through the sacrament of Baptism. As the Bible says, Baptism saves you:

1 Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE
Jesus saves through His shed blood ... not water.

It's faith that give one a clear conscience

1 Timothy 3:9 : (All are called to hold) “fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.” – 2 Timothy 1:3 : “I am grateful to God, Whom I worship with a clear conscience….” – 1 John 3:21 : “If our consciences have nothing to charge us with, we can be sure that God is with us.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Jesus saves through His shed blood ... not water.
Jesus saves by the water and the blood.
This is the One who came by water and blood: Jesus Christ. Not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit is the One who testifies that the Christ is the Truth. For there are Three who give testimony in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. And these Three are One. And there are three who give testimony on earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And these three are one. If we accept the testimony of men, then the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God, which is greater: that he has testified about his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God, holds the testimony of God within himself. Whoever does not believe in the Son, makes him a liar, because he does not believe in the testimony which God has testified about his Son. And this is the testimony which God has given to us: Eternal Life. And this Life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son, has Life. Whoever does not have the Son, does not have Life.​
(1 John 5:6-12)
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus saves by the water and the blood.
This is the One who came by water and blood: Jesus Christ. Not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit is the One who testifies that the Christ is the Truth. For there are Three who give testimony in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. And these Three are One. And there are three who give testimony on earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And these three are one. If we accept the testimony of men, then the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God, which is greater: that he has testified about his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God, holds the testimony of God within himself. Whoever does not believe in the Son, makes him a liar, because he does not believe in the testimony which God has testified about his Son. And this is the testimony which God has given to us: Eternal Life. And this Life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son, has Life. Whoever does not have the Son, does not have Life.​
(1 John 5:6-12)
Matthew 26:28, “For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.”

1 John 1:7. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Hebrews 10:19 ESV​

Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,

Living water is a metaphor used in the Bible to depict the spiritual sustenance and salvation that Jesus Christ offers. The phrase draws upon the life-giving properties of water, symbolizing the spiritual refreshment that comes from accepting Jesus Christ and his teachings

Everything in Christ is sufficient ... EVERYTHING is through Him .... EVERYTHING!

“If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.” “Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17). “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life” (John 4:14).

Water represents the Holy Spirit's ability to refresh us, quench our spiritual thirst, cleanse us, and bring forth life wherever He flows. He is the rain of Heaven, and He is the living river that flows from within. Water is symbolic for the Holy Spirit.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Water represents the Holy Spirit's ability to refresh us, quench our spiritual thirst, cleanse us, and bring forth life wherever He flows. He is the rain of Heaven, and He is the living river that flows from within. Water is symbolic for the Holy Spirit.
Water, when referred to as part of one's salvation, is primarily about baptism. It's not a metaphor or a code for the "Holy Spirit." It is the common term for the waters of regeneration, which is baptism.
 
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