Foolishness and deceptiveness of orthodox beliefs

[ArmyMatt]

Today he can read a Bible, having no connection to or knowledge of the body of Christ, and become the body of Christ through faith in Jesus Christ..

where does the Bible say this?

 

[Clare73]

where does the Bible say this?

Salvation is through faith alone (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[ArmyMatt]

Salvation is through faith alone (Eph 2:8-9).

nowhere does that verse say faith alone. plus, St Paul also says we need to WORK out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Clare73]

nowhere does that verse say faith alone.

C'mon now. . .

". . .you have been saved through faith. . .---not by works" (Eph 2:8-9).

plus, St Paul also says we need to WORK out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Yes. . .we are not to fail to work out in our lives what God has worked in us through faith, for true faith obeys.

 

[ArmyMatt]

C'mon now. . .

". . .you have been saved through faith. . .---not by works" (Eph 2:8-9).

correct, but also not faith ALONE.

Yes. . .we are not to fail to work out in our lives what God has worked in us through faith, for true faith obeys.

correct, so not faith ALONE.

 

[Clare73]

correct, but also not faith ALONE.


correct, so not faith ALONE.

In the NT context, the issue is salvation by faith only, or salvation by faith and works.

True faith necessarily has works, but it is not the works of true faith which saves, it is the faith itself only which saves.

 

[FenderTL5]

There is no dichotomy between faith and works, even in Ephesians 2. The contrast is between Grace and the Law. Faith and works are synergistic .
Faith without works is dead. Works without faith are useless.

 

[ArmyMatt]

In the NT context, the issue is salvation by faith only, or salvation by faith and works.

that’s not the only issue.

True faith necessarily has works, but it is not the works of true faith which saves, it is the faith itself only.

again, the Bible never says this. nowhere does it say faith only.

the Orthodox position is we are saved by grace, through faith, for good works.

 

[Clare73]

There is no dichotomy between faith and works, even in Ephesians 2. The contrast is between Grace and the Law. Faith and works are synergistic .
Faith without works is dead. Works without faith are useless.

Please exegete Eph 2:8-9.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Please exegete Eph 2:8-9.

please read the following verses.

 

[Clare73]

that’s not the only issue.

again, the Bible never says this. nowhere does it say faith only.

Please exegete Eph 2:8-9.

the Orthodox position is we are saved by grace, through faith, for good works.

The NT position is we are saved by faith, not by works (Eph 2:8-9) which works are necessary to faith, but it is not the works of faith which save, it is only the faith.
The works demonstrate that the faith is true.

 

[Clare73]

Please exegete Eph 2:8-9.

please read the following verses.

Non-responsive?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Please exegete Eph 2:8-9.

you can’t earn your salvation.

The NT position is we are saved by faith, not by works (Eph 2:8-9) which works are necessary to faith, but it is not the works of faith which save, it is only the faith.
The works demonstrate that the faith is true.

the Bible also says we are not saved by faith alone. no one disputes that works alone don’t save. we agree with that. we also agree works demonstrate proper faith. but nowhere does it say faith alone. in fact, St James makes this clear.

Non-responsive?

no, just that the next verses are also relevant to the discussion.

 

[Clare73]

you can’t earn your salvation.

the Bible also says we are not saved by faith alone. no one disputes that works alone don’t save. we agree with that. we also agree works demonstrate proper faith. but nowhere does it say faith alone. in fact, St James makes this clear.

no, just that the next verses are also relevant to the discussion.

See post #26.

 

[ArmyMatt]

See post #23.

I wrote post 23:

nowhere does that verse say faith alone. plus, St Paul also says we need to WORK out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Clare73]

I wrote post 23:

Oops!

Make that post #26.

 

[ArmyMatt]

In the NT context, the issue is salvation by faith only, or salvation by faith and works.

True faith necessarily has works, but it is not the works of true faith which saves, it is the faith itself only which saves.

again, nowhere does this say that faith only saves. that’s not Biblical. you asserting that it’s faith alone doesn’t make it so. the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone. being saved by faith isn’t necessarily the same as being saved by faith alone.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In the NT context, the issue is salvation by faith only, or salvation by faith and works.

True faith necessarily has works, but it is not the works of true faith which saves, it is the faith itself only which saves.

“If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

you can’t earn your salvation.

the Bible also says we are not saved by faith alone. no one disputes that works alone don’t save. we agree with that. we also agree works demonstrate proper faith. but nowhere does it say faith alone. in fact, St James makes this clear.


no, just that the next verses are also relevant to the discussion.

Do you believe that James was referring to being counted as righteous before God or being shown or evinced as righteous in James 2:24?

“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Clare73]

again, nowhere does this say that faith only saves. that’s not Biblical. you asserting that it’s faith alone doesn’t make it so. the Bible never says we are saved by faith alone. being saved by faith isn’t necessarily the same as being saved by faith alone.

We'll continue this conversation after you have dealt with post #29.