The UK is now a dangerous place to visit?

[Bradskii]

Examples: Some states are wanting the 10 commandments displayed in school systems ... that isn't forcing a belief ... because it's displayed don't mean people are required/forced to believe it ....

The same will apply to Muslin and Hindu texts. Put them all up so that you can educate children where belief systems come from.

 

[That Guy 11200]

You were exposed to the teachings ... I get that ... the bible was also included/taught in the school systems in America for a time. Exposure don't mean one must believe something. One might be influenced by what is taught (religious or not) ... formalizing their beliefs.

Nobody can force anyone to believe anything ... they can try ... but the end game is that beliefs are up to the individual.

Civil laws are made by man (governments) some of which may or may not coincide with biblical teachings.

Mankind has learned some things over time and separation of church and state is one of them. It was designed to keep from having a forced worship system. On the flip side .... a Christians are not supposed to themselves violate biblical teachings. The focus is on worship ... and that is to remain separate ... ie the state not instituting any particular church system. As long as civil law isn't enforced by a particular religious belief in regard to worship then choice remains in tact ... and governments institute what the civil laws will be.

Examples: Some states are wanting the 10 commandments displayed in school systems ... that isn't forcing a belief ... because it's displayed don't mean people are required/forced to believe it .... just as evolution theory is taught in the school systems, one is not forced/required to believe it. The bible itself and other religions can not be taught in a public school system setting ... that is the responsibility of the churches or through individual study. Can anyone force someone to believe the 10 commandments? No. Any specific religion can not be a legal requirement.



Not sure if this in regard to the UK is true .... but it appears what is to be religious studies (various religions) ... not forcing any belief in any particular one? True or not?

In Primary school, we had to pray and sing Christian hymns in school assemblies everyday. Technically, we had to do that in Secondary school as well, but the Principal never went along with that silly rule.

 

[Hans Blaster]

How so?

Childhood indoctrination. Do you think they explained the rules and rewards of Christianity to me and said: "So what do you think, son, do you want to be a christian?" Hardly. Instead they insisted that it was all true and required me to participate. No choice on my part to join.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Childhood indoctrination. Do you think they explained the rules and rewards of Christianity to me and said: "So what do you think, son, do you want to be a christian?" Hardly. Instead they insisted that it was all true and required me to participate. No choice on my part to join.

Instead parents should give children the option? What about the option to go to school? Because following the logic, kids should decide on their own if they want to be a part of this society and not be *forced* to learn if they don't want to.

 

[Bradskii]

Instead parents should give children the option? What about the option to go to school? Because following the logic, kids should decide on their own if they want to be a part of this society and not be *forced* to learn if they don't want to.

You should know the difference between facts and beliefs.

 

[Occams Barber]

Instead parents should give children the option? What about the option to go to school? Because following the logic, kids should decide on their own if they want to be a part of this society and not be *forced* to learn if they don't want to.

LOL. I gave my kids the option and they gave their kids the option.

Believe it or not religious beliefs are not a necessary part of life.

Schooling is vastly different. Without education individuals are going to be in all sorts of difficulty. And practising religion is not a necessary attribute for being a part of a society - at least not in my country.

OB

 

[Landon Caeli]

You should know the difference between facts and beliefs.

How about I decide for my kids, and you decide for your's, and we don't complain about what other parents do.

Besides, it's only a "belief" that our economic and social systems will sustain another generation. What if a child wants to do something else with their life?

 

[Landon Caeli]

LOL. I gave my kids the option and they gave their kids the option.

Believe it or not religious beliefs are not a necessary part of life.

Schooling is vastly different. Without education individuals are going to be in all sorts of difficulty. And practising religion is not a necessary attribute for being a part of a society - at least not in my country.

OB

Did you ask them if they'd rather stay home and not go to school? Or did *you* decide what was best for them, based on what you know.

...If you made the choice, then you should allow others to make choices on their own as well.

 

[Bradskii]

How about I decide for my kids, and you decide for your's, and we don't complain about what other parents do.

Well I told mine that it was up to me what they had to know (and sent them to school so that they could learn it) and it was up to them what they decided to believe.

As both my wife and I are atheists we sent both kids to Catholic schools so that at least they had an idea what was available. They received no direction from me as to which path they should take.

From what I've seen so far, their attitude to their kids is the same as mine was to them.

Besides, it's only a "belief" that our economic and social systems will sustain another generation. What if a child wants to do something else with his life?

Then if they have the knowledge to be able to choose between entering our current 'economic and social systems' or not then making that choice is up to them.

 

[Occams Barber]

Did you ask them if they'd rather stay home and not go to school? Or did *you* decide what was best for them, based on what you know.

...If you made the choice, then you should allow others to make choices on their own as well.

Once again - religious belief is not a necessary part of life. I exposed them weekly to religious teachings (Anglican) and left the decision up to them. Whether they believed or not had no bearing on their wellbeing or future prospects.

Schooling is obviously different. Leaving it to the kids to decide on their early education is ridiculous and has serious consequences for their future.

OB

 

[Landon Caeli]

Once again - religious belief is not a necessary part of life. I exposed them weekly to religious teachings (Anglican) and left the decision up to them. Whether they believed or not had no bearing on their wellbeing or future prospects.

Schooling is obviously different. Leaving it to the kids to decide on their early education is ridiculous and has serious consequences for their future.

OB

Those are your priorities. Nobody else needs to agree with you.

 

[Occams Barber]

Those are your priorities. Nobody else needs to agree with you.

Yes - obviously.

OB

 

[Larniavc]

Exposure don't mean one must believe something.

I’m going to go ahead and stop relying to you.

 

[Larniavc]

Because following the logic, kids should decide on their own

That’s as disingenuous a response as I have read today. Teaching how to think and communicate is very different from what to think and say.

You know that.

 

[Larniavc]

How about I decide for my kids, and you decide for your's, and we don't complain about what other parents do.

That’s what happens now. This discussion is about not being able to do that in the before times in UK education.

Which is the whole point of this minor digression from the topic of the right wing thuggery that followed the reposting of false information by internet pundits about a horrific murder spree by a Christian Welshman.

 

[HantsUK]

a horrific murder spree by a Christian Welshman.

We do not know anything about the defendant's beliefs. Being brought up in a Christian home does not make someone a Christian. By the time someone is 17 (now 18), they are more than able to have made up their own mind.

The othe thread covering this subject:

Eleven children and two adults have been knifed at a Taylor Swift-themed event in Southport

Interesting OP is standing by this…

www.christianforums.com

Which links to the BBC News report of the suspect's court appearance:

Teen, 17, accused of Southport murders named

Axel Rudakubana appeared at Liverpool Crown Court where a judge ruled his identity could be made public.

www.bbc.co.uk

This tells us the most so far about the defendant. We are unlikely to know more until the trial.

Quote:

Arguing against naming the defendant, the prosecution said he had an "autism spectrum disorder diagnosis" and had been "unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time".​

Note: this is claimed by the prosecution, not defence.

And further down:

Quote:

None of the families of the victims or the defendant were in court.​

Last Summer another teenage boy (then 16) attacked two other boys and a teacher in a public school**, and was recently found guilty of attempted murder.

Devon hammer attack schoolboy guilty of attempted murders

The 16-year-old attacked three people with hammers at his boarding school in Devon.

www.bbc.co.uk

Schoolboy guilty of trying to kill two pupils and teacher

Blundell's School in Tiverton was the scene of a violent and bloody hammer attack by a student

www.devonlive.com

** Public Schools in Britain are the more prestigious private (independent) schools, not state schools. All public schools are private (independent) but not all private schools are public.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Instead parents should give children the option? What about the option to go to school? Because following the logic, kids should decide on their own if they want to be a part of this society and not be *forced* to learn if they don't want to.

The option to pick a religion when they can understand what they are choosing? Yes, absolutely.

This has nothing to do with making them learn to read or add.

 

[Hans Blaster]

How about I decide for my kids, and you decide for your's, and we don't complain about what other parents do.

Besides, it's only a "belief" that our economic and social systems will sustain another generation. What if a child wants to do something else with their life?

We can't stop you, but don't for a second think that it makes your kids religion a personal choice by them. That was the claim I was countering, because as to picking a religion -- I had no choice.

 

[eleos1954]

The same will apply to Muslin and Hindu texts. Put them all up so that you can educate children where belief systems come from.

It's my understanding the school system teaches "religious studies" ... don't know ... haven't been in school for a long time. Supposedly they teach the different beliefs but not any particular specific religious doctrine ... but that is not entirely possible to do .... because religious doctrines defines what a person believes in a given religion and is the basis for their religious culture.

The beliefs and practices of people who are inspired in similar ways by the same religion, gather together and create culture.

Culture clash ... seems inevitable with no real resolve. It seems reasonable to me that a person can practice their religion as long as there is no physical harm or destruction of property involved ... it then becomes a civil matter.

It's a conundrum

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ye gods, what is wrong with the world..?

Travel alert for Australians visiting UK amid ongoing riots after Southport stabbing attack

Other countries also issue travel alerts for the United Kingdom as the British PM announces a special police force to deal with the violence.

www.abc.net.au

My wife and I have travelled to many places and we always take note of what the Australian Government says in regard to safety. But now we are being warned that going back to where we were brought up is to be considered dangerous.

What is wrong with the world? In what alternative universe could I ever imagine that I'd be warned about going back to, what in some senses, we call home? Or at least, used to be home. Not in Palestine or the Lebanon or Venezuela or Myanmar, but the United Kingdom.

And the fact that Nigeria, Malaysia and Indonesia, places where they've often been a concern regarding safety, have also issued their own travel alerts for the UK is...depressing.

Well...the short version goes like this.

Police in the UK are failing. It's often described as policing by consent, if you don't consent to be policed, you need not worry about punishment for breaking the law.

Add to that a vast increase in illegal immigrants from the middle east, and north Africa, and you have a recipe for some rather troubling problems. Strain on the health system. Rapidly increasing stabbings. Rape gangs targeting non-muslim schoolgirls. Thievery and burglary with extremely low arrest rates.

These issues have piled up....as a group of white native English Welsh and Scottish people are being repressed from speaking openly about these problems....as they have no freedom of speech....and any such condemnation can be construed as hate speech towards foreigners...these problems have continued unabated and unsolved.

Then some dark skin Muslim kid stabbed a bunch of children...killing 3 and injuring many more. (I think).

The result is now violence from the natives spilling onto the streets while recent illegals and migrants are forming violent counter protests. The police, embarrassingly, seem focused on what people are saying online....