Trump tells Christians their 'religion will be in tatters' if Biden wins: 'We answer to God in Heaven'

[iarwain]

I guess I go there because many Christian say they a voting for Trump for moral reasons when he is a proven tax dodger, adulterer and sexual harasser. By him bragging about his ability to grab a woman by their croth without any reporcussions and having his lawyer write check to a porn actress for sex and paying out a settlement for racist housing practices, I don't see how a Christian can say he has the moral highground. I call it a cult because avowed Christians still follow him regardless of his morals. It's like they are under a spell or being brainwashed because Christian morality and Trump's morality do not agree. It's called the cult of personality when people follow a leader no matter what they do.

Trump is a spoiled billionaire, but if not he probably wouldn't be running. A normal person would not be able to afford the legal attacks the Democrats have inflicted on him. As it is, they are damaging his ability campaign because they draw off money (which is no doubt the idea, at least in part). Coming from a business/super rich background, he has probably faced temptations some others haven't. I don't really see any of the top politicians above another morally, because it's apparent that they will all say whatever they think they have to in order to win. The truth is secondary. What is important to me mainly is the ideology and policies they want to enact. Foreign policy is also a big part of the president's job.

In any case, Trump is not my first choice for Republican nominee, but I will not vote for a big government, left wing ideology, that pushes anti-Christian ideas like gender mutilation of children. I do agree that a lot of people seem to hero worship Trump for whatever reason, maybe they admire his lifestyle, and his tendency to say whatever he wants, I don't know. By the same token, a lot of people seem to waste an awful lot of energy on hating the man. I've never seen anything like it honestly. A serial killer doesn't generate the amount of hate Trump does.

 

[RileyG]

We all are in need of grace and no person is perfect. I think where we disagree is is when I separate my or our personal morality from that of the secular world. We can control our own actions but I don't believe we can force our morality on a godless government that is elected by people of differing morals. I also know I am a sinner and in need of grace and I would never pay for a woman's abortion or tell them it's a good option.

Even in a godless, secular society it’s not ok to kill the most vulnerable in the name of choice- I have nothing more to add.

 

[RoBo1988]

Christianity has always outlived its undertakers. As far as Trump's statement, that dog won't hunt.
I'm voting for Trump, because the Democrats insist on running the most radical candidates- no one who knows what it means to go to work on Monday, or make payroll on Friday

 

[rturner76]

Smh. Read the Catechism. Just out of curiosity… how long have you been Catholic?

About 10-12 years. The entire Catholic Catechism is a huge document. I haven't waded through the whole thing. I have my Catholic beliefs and personal beliefs. I know we do not support abortion and I don't. I would never pay for one or tell a loved one that it is okay. The rub is that we do not live in a theocracy. We live with a secular government where religion is not the basis for our laws. If our government was based on Christian laws it would more likely be Protestant laws. So while I personally live by Catholic rules, our government is not set up to be based on Catholic values.

 

[rturner76]

Even in a godless, secular society it’s not ok to kill the most vulnerable in the name of choice- I have nothing more to add.

It is your right to believe that however if that same secular society decide to give women the right to choose whether to give birth or not, there is nothing we can do about it except maybe move to Vatacan City where the Church does control the government.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Whether or not there are plans for hindering Christianity in the US by various politicians, regardless of their affiliated party, I do sincerely believe a cultural shift is coming to the USA regardless of who wins the elections. We are at that point. What will the shift look like would probably be effected by various people in power via elections (not just presidential) but the shift will be bittersweet. Maybe one way more bitter than sweet and the other way more sweet than bitter.

 

[RileyG]

It is your right to believe that however if that same secular society decide to give women the right to choose whether to give birth or not, there is nothing we can do about it except maybe move to Vatacan City where the Church does control the government.

I humbly disagree. Choosing an abortion shouldn’t be an option.

 

[iarwain]

It is your right to believe that however if that same secular society decide to give women the right to choose whether to give birth or not, there is nothing we can do about it except maybe move to Vatacan City where the Church does control the government.

There still remains the question of why someone would passionately argue in favor of abortion if he actually believed in Catholic values. To get elected?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It is your right to believe that however if that same secular society decide to give women the right to choose whether to give birth or not, there is nothing we can do about it except maybe move to Vatacan City where the Church does control the government.

Are we in any way allowed to challenge said secularism?

 

[rturner76]

I humbly disagree. Choosing an abortion shouldn’t be an option.

The thing is that it is an option for those who don't live by Christian values. Since our laws are based on secular ideas, if we are out voted by them, we have no recourse.

 

[BPPLEE]

The thing is that it is an option for those who don't live by Christian values. Since our laws are based on secular ideas, if we are out voted by them, we have no recourse.

We can choose not to participate

 

[rturner76]

Are we in any way allowed to challenge said secularism?

Yes, if we can gather enough votes to put in place government officials who base their political views on their Christian values. The only issue I see with that is those Christian voters also desire tax breaks for the rich and the dismantling of things like the social safety net and public education. So the Christians who desire anti-abortion laws do not support other Christian values like taking care of the poor and offering equal opportunities for education and union rights. So different Christians support different things. We are not united. As a Christian, I am willing to lose out on abortion legislation in order to support public education, medicare, and the unions that guarantee a living wage, and medical and dental care.

 

[rturner76]

We can choose not to participate

EXACTLY! Just because it's legal, our women don't need to choose abortion and our men don't need to pay for them. With the law as it is, we can still live by our values.

 

[Michie]

About 10-12 years. The entire Catholic Catechism is a huge document. I haven't waded through the whole thing. I have my Catholic beliefs and personal beliefs. I know we do not support abortion and I don't. I would never pay for one or tell a loved one that it is okay. The rub is that we do not live in a theocracy. We live with a secular government where religion is not the basis for our laws. If our government was based on Christian laws it would more likely be Protestant laws. So while I personally live by Catholic rules, our government is not set up to be based on Catholic values.

Our witness is important as Christians. It’s best not to cause confusion. The secular view really needs no defense.

 

[RoBo1988]

. The only issue I see with that is those Christian voters also desire tax breaks for the rich and the dismantling of things like the social safety net and public education

Can we agree that these things need to be looked at, and perhaps some reform?

When there's school districts that spend in the neighborhood of $20k per student, per year; and the dropout rate is through the roof, and many of the graduates can barely read, maybe lack of money isn't the problem.

 

[RileyG]

Our witness is important as Christians. It’s best not to cause confusion. The secular view really needs no defense.

I agree. Besides abortion isn’t a religious issue, it’s a LIFE issue.

 

[childeye 2]

I agree. Besides abortion isn’t a religious issue, it’s a LIFE issue.

The topic easily gets lost in the semantics of vanity, pitting the life of the mother against the life of her child. Note that there are two different meanings for the term "life" at play, biological life, and one's life-time.

It's therefore going to be a major decision in the woman's personal life who finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy, because she is the one who will either be moved to share life, or not share life; Just as it is a major personal decision in one's life whether to get a divorce when people joined as one find themselves in an unwanted marriage.

So, the issue is whether the government should be involved in the personal life changing reasons why a woman wants to or doesn't want to have a baby.

 

[rturner76]

Our witness is important as Christians. It’s best not to cause confusion. The secular view really needs no defense.

I don't think I am defending the secular view as much as reiterating that our laws are secular. That doesn't mean that because it's secular it is moral but we can't change abortion laws without having enough of pro-life voters to offset their majority viewpoint. If there are enough Christian voters to vote in a candidate that legislates based on conservative Christian values then perhaps some of these laws can be changes like some states are doing. What we can't do is demand that legislature be based on conservative values if that view is not in the majority.

While I'm sure it would never happen, to base legislature on religious laws and not secular, it would leave the door open for things like Sharia law. Most likely that would never happen here but the fact that there is a multitude of Christian organizations with differing interpretations of what is or isn't Biblical, we are left with the same conundrum. For example, some churches marry gays, some churches kick gays out. Some churches believe in military action overseas to control certain Islamic organizations, some churches teach that we are not to participate in violence of any kind.

So at the time a majority Protestant nation begins passing laws based on their interpretation of the Bible, Catholics and other denominations will get their interpretations stepped on. That is why I believe in secular democratically elected constitutional republic. So the majority wins no matter what their religion is. If it happens to be that Catholics have the most votes, they win political power. The same for Protestants and Athiests oe Humanists. Majority wins.

 

[Adam56]

About 10-12 years. The entire Catholic Catechism is a huge document. I haven't waded through the whole thing. I have my Catholic beliefs and personal beliefs. I know we do not support abortion and I don't. I would never pay for one or tell a loved one that it is okay. The rub is that we do not live in a theocracy. We live with a secular government where religion is not the basis for our laws. If our government was based on Christian laws it would more likely be Protestant laws. So while I personally live by Catholic rules, our government is not set up to be based on Catholic values.

Protestants are against abortion as well.

But there are non religious people against abortion, it’s not as if pro choice is the *clear cut* secular choice.

 

[Adam56]

EXACTLY! Just because it's legal, our women don't need to choose abortion and our men don't need to pay for them. With the law as it is, we can still live by our values.

No, our values are to stand up for the unborn.