Tim Walz Signed Bill Making Minnesota a Sanctuary State for Child Sex-Changes

[BPPLEE]

That would not be advisable in all cases without helping the child with some counseling first.

Send them to counseling without The parent’s consent? What gives them that right?
Why are they better suited to make decisions for the child than the parents?

 

[BCP1928]

Send them to counseling without The parent’s consent? What gives them that right?
Why are they better suited to make decisions for the child than the parents?

Their concern for the best interest of the child, where the possibility of a harsh or even violent response by the parents is considered possible.
What "decision" are you talking about?

 

[Hans Blaster]

It is.

Just in case you need a refresher about what paganism is:

Paganism - Wikipedia

TL;DR version: Classical definition: Paganism is a non-Jewish/non-Christian polytheistic or ethnic religion.

So I'll repeat/rephrase my question that is still unanswered to your claim that non-Christian law in the US was "pagan":

What form of paganism is US law based on? Please do be specific.

(Not-christian is not the same as pagan, Judaism is neither. Secularly sourced law isn't based on any religion>0

 

[BPPLEE]

Their concern for the best interest of the child, where the possibility of a harsh or even violent response by the parents is considered possible.
What "decision" are you talking about?

You’re talking about if there’s a concern about an abusIve parent. So why are they doing this in all cases and not informing the parents what’s going on with their children?

 

[BCP1928]

You’re talking about if there’s a concern about an abusIve parent. So why are they doing this in all cases and not informing the parents what’s going on with their children?

What makes you think that they are doing it in all cases?

 

[BPPLEE]

What makes you think that they are doing it in all cases?

They are calling children by another name that corresponds with the opposite sex, changing their pronouns, allowing them to transition and not telling their parents

 

[BCP1928]

They are calling children by another name that corresponds with the opposite sex, changing their pronouns, allowing them to transition and not telling their parents

What makes you think they are doing it in all cases?

 

[BPPLEE]

What makes you think they are doing it in all cases?

Google it. There have been lawsuits. The schools say that it's a matter of confidentiality

 

[BCP1928]

Google it. There have been lawsuits. The schools say that it's a matter of confidentiality

They do it in cases where the student doesn't want her parents told. What makes you think they do it in all cases? Many times it is the parents who will know first.

 

[Bradskii]

...allowing them to transition and not telling their parents

The parents must be informed at this point.

 

[civilwarbuff]

First up, I want to point out that the conversation started off with this comment: 'Gender reassignment surgery is very rarely if ever going to be appropriate for little kids.' Post 38

And was discussing genital surgery: 'When you chop off a boys penis, what else would you call it?' Post 62

Emphasised by: 'Change “cutting penis off” with “being sexually active at 9” and see if that still works.' Post 92

And my comment: 'if someone did find an example and I thought that there were problems with it I'd say so. These things must be considered on an individual basis.' Post 232

Perhaps you would care to give a short list of 'things' that 'must be considered on an individual basis' that could possibly justify the removal of children's sex organs and/or puberty blockers that are irreversible (outside of injury or disease) or other sex reassignment surgery?

 

[civilwarbuff]

At last - we have one.

First up, I want to point out that the conversation started off with this comment: 'Gender reassignment surgery is very rarely if ever going to be appropriate for little kids.' Post 38

And was discussing genital surgery: 'When you chop off a boys penis, what else would you call it?' Post 62

Emphasised by: 'Change “cutting penis off” with “being sexually active at 9” and see if that still works.' Post 92

And my comment: 'if someone did find an example and I thought that there were problems with it I'd say so. These things must be considered on an individual basis.' Post 232

So this example is not talking about genital surgery for young children. The example was for a mastectomy on a girl who was 15 at the time. She had been discussing this with her parents, and obviously her doctor, for two years. And she was adamant that she wanted to transition. Parental consent was given and a medical decision made that it would be in her best interests.

From here: Olson-Kennedy-2018.pdf

'Transmasculine youth, who are assigned female at birth but have a gender identity along the masculine spectrum, often report considerable distress after breast development (chest dysphoria).

Chest dysphoria was high among presurgical transmasculine youth, and surgical intervention positively affected both minors and young adults. Given these findings, professional guidelines and clinical practice should consider patients for chest surgery based on individual need rather than chronologic age.

Self-reported regret was near 0.'

I am absolutely certain that genital surgery would not have been an option at that age and that the mastectomy that she had was done in her best interests.

From here: High levels of satisfaction, and low levels of regret, after gender affirming mastectomy

'Gender-affirming mastectomies for transmasculine and nonbinary individuals can be life changing. Recent research from the University of Michigan finds that in addition to changing lives, most patients are highly satisfied with their decision to undergo surgery longterm.

The study published in JAMA Surgery aimed to determine how patients who received a gender affirming mastectomy at a single major health system felt about their decision years afterward.

The research showed an overwhelmingly positive response – the median satisfaction score was a 5 on a 5-point scale, the highest possible rating. The median decision regret score was 0.0 on a 100-point scale where lower scores mean less regret.

In another indirect measure of satisfaction, none of the patients in the study pursued a reversal of their mastectomy.'

The obvious conclusion is that her operation was done with the best interests of the girl being considered. That she changed her mind later was an extremely rare occurrence.

Wow, 235 patients contacted, 139 responded......of course, who cares about what the other 96 thought.....I mean 40% didn't respond.....probably just too lazy. Of course maybe they just wanted to forget about the whole experience because they felt it ruined their lives, worst thing they had ever done.....but we will never know, will we? It seems you jump on any little leftist raindrop and start howling about a flood.

 

[civilwarbuff]

What makes you think they are doing it in all cases?

Just as one crime is one too many so is the instance of schools not involving parents. This is beginning to sound more like the propaganda the Nazi's pedaled in schools to turn children against parents and towards the gov as their protectors.

 

[civilwarbuff]

They do it in cases where the student doesn't want her parents told

Again, what gives them that right?

 

[Bradskii]

Perhaps you would care to give a short list of 'things' that 'must be considered on an individual basis' that could possibly justify the removal of children's sex organs and/or puberty blockers that are irreversible (outside of injury or disease) or other sex reassignment surgery?

Children? My grandson is a child. He's ten. So what should and shouldn't be considered would be vastly different between a 17 year old and a ten year old. But in every single case, the only one thing that must be considered is the well being of the person. In every single case. I know we both agree on that. What we might disagree about is what the response should be. But we don't have a say in that. It's a decision that's made between the parents and the person's medical experts.

 

[Bradskii]

It seems you jump on any little leftist raindrop and start howling about a flood.

That's a nonsensical response. Even the very first link that was posted by @BPPLEE a few pages back, which he put forward as an example of how many surgeries were being done, said that there was no doubt that they were considered beneficial.

I know that's difficult for you to accept as you think they shouldn't be done at all. In fact, my guess is that even if one person was to tell you that what he or she went through changed their life for the better then you'd still argue against it. Would I be right?

 

[BPPLEE]

That's a nonsensical response. Even the very first link that was posted by @BPPLEE a few pages back, which he put forward as an example of how many surgeries were being done, said that there was no doubt that they were considered beneficial.

I know that's difficult for you to accept as you think they shouldn't be done at all. In fact, my guess is that even if one person was to tell you that what he or she went through changed their life for the better then you'd still argue against it. Would I be right?

The objection is that a minor child is not old enough to be making these kinds of decisions. For instance do you think it would be appropriate for a 14 year old to get breast implants? If not why?
What if it was a male transitioning to female? What if it was a female who was unhappy with her breasts?

 

[Bradskii]

The objection is that a minor child is not old enough to be making these kinds of decisions.

They don't, because they are not allowed to. It's the parents and the medical staff who decide what is in the person's best interests. Would you want me to tell you what's best for your children? Or are you the best person for that?

 

[BPPLEE]

They don't, because they are not allowed to. It's the parents and the medical staff who decide what is in the person's best interests. Would you want me to tell you what's best for your children? Or are you the best person for that?

You didn't answer the question

 

[Bradskii]

You didn't answer the question

I explained that young girls of that age are not allowed to make those sorts of decisions. If there was a reason for it then the parents and he doctor(s) would make the decision following (obviously) consultation with the girl. The person who is definitely not going to decide is you. Which again prompts the question - which you didn't answer...would you want me to tell you what's best for your children? Or are you the best person for that?