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Vance Military Service

Fantine

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This is not an axe-grinding post. I found it interesting. To a retired communicator and mostly retired freelancer, his Marine service sounded like fun.
His six-months in Iraq sounded like the legwork for so many profiles and articles I'd written. Shadowing people, visiting places, learning and sharing. I loved my career, but that kind of work is rarely a deep dive.
I would call for us to respect both Vance's and Walz' service.
Neither was in the infantry or on the front lines. Neither was in imminent danger.
Let's just be grateful and end all the put downs.
 

FreeinChrist

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Yep, the criticism of their service is unwarranted.
Regarding Walz and his time in the service"


As he ramped up for a congressional bid in 2005, Walz's campaign in March issued a statement saying he still planned to run despite a possible mobilization of Minnesota National Guard soldiers to Iraq. According to the Guard, Walz retired from service in May of that year.

In August 2005, the Department of the Army issued a mobilization order for Walz’s unit. The unit mobilized in October of that year before it deployed to Iraq in March 2006.


There is no evidence that Walz timed his departure with the intent of avoiding deployment.

This article is interesting and points something out:

Walz did suffer health consequences from all those howitzer cannon booms. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs records supplied by Walz after MPR News inquired about the scope and timing of the damage show he filed a claim for bilateral hearing loss and tinnitus with the agency in 2013.​
In a benefits application, Walz spoke of blasts that "would knock us down and after firing I had ringing in my ears" and hearing loss that progressively worsened during his 21 years in the field artillery unit.​
In late 2002, he was ordered to appear before a medical retention board about the hearing impairment. After waiting for a decision for months, he was given clearance to serve out the remaining years of his final six-year enlistment.​
Medical records show that in 2005 Walz underwent stapedectomy surgery, a procedure in which damaged bones inside the ear are replaced with a prosthesis. He said it has improved his hearing.​
Tim Walz could have retired in 2002 as he met the qualifications for retirement, especially because of his hearing. But there was 9/11 and he wanted to finish his 6 years enlistment.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Yep, the criticism of their service is unwarranted.
Regarding Walz and his time in the service"




This article is interesting and points something out:

Walz did suffer health consequences from all those howitzer cannon booms. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs records supplied by Walz after MPR News inquired about the scope and timing of the damage show he filed a claim for bilateral hearing loss and tinnitus with the agency in 2013.​
In a benefits application, Walz spoke of blasts that "would knock us down and after firing I had ringing in my ears" and hearing loss that progressively worsened during his 21 years in the field artillery unit.​
In late 2002, he was ordered to appear before a medical retention board about the hearing impairment. After waiting for a decision for months, he was given clearance to serve out the remaining years of his final six-year enlistment.​
Medical records show that in 2005 Walz underwent stapedectomy surgery, a procedure in which damaged bones inside the ear are replaced with a prosthesis. He said it has improved his hearing.​
Tim Walz could have retired in 2002 as he met the qualifications for retirement, especially because of his hearing. But there was 9/11 and he wanted to finish his 6 years enlistment.
Except - since you brought in Tim Walz:

The marked difference between the two is that the people closest to Walz don't regard him very well at all. Whereas there is no such reference to Vance - probably because he didn't lie about his rank.


Ret. Command Sgt. Maj. Thomas Behrends, who said he was a member of Walz's battalion, scolded the Minnesota governor for misleading the American public about his military career.​
Asked about Trump running mate Sen. JD Vance's accusation that Walz is guilty of "stolen valor," the National Guard veteran told Fox News host Laura Ingraham that it's "far darker than a lot of people think."​
"He's used the rank that he never achieved in order to advance his political career," he said. "I mean, he still says he's a retired command sergeant major to this day, and he's not. He uses the rank of others to make it look like he's a better person than he is."​
"I mean, if he thinks Italy was a combat zone or a war zone and he was carrying that in war, he's delusional," he added.​
Behrends said Walz had been promoted to command sergeant major in 2004, but claimed he was required to serve two additional years or the promotion would be void.​
Or here:
or here:
Stolen Valor Act:​
The Stolen Valor Act of 2013 amends the federal criminal code to rewrite provisions relating to fraudulent claims about military service to subject to a fine, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both for an individual who, with intent to obtain money, property, or other tangible benefit, fraudulently holds himself or herself out to be a recipient of:​
 
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FreeinChrist

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Except - since you brought in Tim Walz:

The marked difference between the two is that the people closest to Walz don't regard him very well at all. Whereas there is no such reference to Vance - probably because he didn't lie about his rank.


Ret. Command Sgt. Maj. Thomas Behrends, who said he was a member of Walz's battalion, scolded the Minnesota governor for misleading the American public about his military career.​
Asked about Trump running mate Sen. JD Vance's accusation that Walz is guilty of "stolen valor," the National Guard veteran told Fox News host Laura Ingraham that it's "far darker than a lot of people think."​
"He's used the rank that he never achieved in order to advance his political career," he said. "I mean, he still says he's a retired command sergeant major to this day, and he's not. He uses the rank of others to make it look like he's a better person than he is."​
"I mean, if he thinks Italy was a combat zone or a war zone and he was carrying that in war, he's delusional," he added.​
Behrends said Walz had been promoted to command sergeant major in 2004, but claimed he was required to serve two additional years or the promotion would be void.​
Or here:
or here:
Stolen Valor Act:​
The Stolen Valor Act of 2013 amends the federal criminal code to rewrite provisions relating to fraudulent claims about military service to subject to a fine, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both for an individual who, with intent to obtain money, property, or other tangible benefit, fraudulently holds himself or herself out to be a recipient of:​
They are Swift-boating Walz.


1996 — Walz transfers to Minnesota National Guard’s 1st Battalion, 125th Field Artillery.​
September 2001 — Though Walz qualified for retirement at 20 years of service, he said in an interview for a Library of Congress oral history project that the Sept. 11 attacks convinced him to reenlist.​
Aug. 3, 2003 — Walz’s unit deploys for nine months of active duty, based in Vicenza, Italy, to support Operation Enduring Freedom, the war in Afghanistan. The troops provided security for Air Force bases in Turkey, Italy, Belgium and Britain, with some elements deployed to support stability operations in Bosnia and Kosovo, a unit history says. In the Library of Congress interview, Walz said the experience made him more politically aware.​
April 2004 — Walz returns to Minnesota.​
Feb. 5, 2005 — Walz, describing himself in a news release as “Mankato West High School teacher and Command Sergeant Major in the National Guard,” files paperwork saying he is exploring running for Congress.​
March 17 — The National Guard announces possible partial mobilization of 2,000 troops. “The announcement from the National Guard PAO [Public Affairs Office] specified that all or a portion of Walz’s battalion could be mobilized to serve in Iraq within the next two years,” according to a March 20 news release issued by the Walz campaign. “Walz Still Planning to Run for Congress Despite Possible Call to Duty in Iraq,” the headline said.​
In the news release, Walz said he “had no plans to drop out of the race.” He also said: “As Command Sergeant Major I have a responsibility not only to ready my battalion for Iraq, but also to serve if called on. I am dedicated to serving my country to the best of my ability, whether that is in Washington DC or in Iraq.”​


From the link in the earlier post:

Al Bonnifield served under Walz, as did his younger brother. Bonnifield vividly recalls the first time he saw his new sergeant upon returning from annual training.​
"He was down at the motorpool barking orders at everyone," Bonnifield said.​
Bonnifield said he and his squad mates weren't sure what to make of him.​
"We all kind of looked at him kind of funny like, 'Who is this guy?'" Bonnifield said. "But after a while we all got to know him and respect him very much."​
They worked together in the armory base supply shop. He knew Walz as a guy who would play practical jokes on fellow soldiers and who would chat up anyone, regardless of differences in rank.​
Bonnifield said they also bonded during a deployment to Italy connected to post-Sept. 11 Operation Enduring Freedom. After seven months abroad, the unit returned to Minnesota.​
But Walz had already begun thinking about an exit and bounced it off others, including Bonnifield.​
"Would the soldier look down on him because he didn't go with us? Would the common soldier say, 'Hey, he didn't go with us, he's trying to skip out on a deployment?' And he wasn't," Bonnifield said. "He talked with us for quite a while on that subject. He weighed that decision to run for Congress very heavy. He loved the military, he loved the guard, he loved the soldiers he worked with."​
Walz said it was merely time to leave and he saw a chance to make a difference in the public policy arena.​
"Once you're in, it's hard to retire. Of my 40 years or 41 years, I had been in the military 24 of them. It was just what you did," he said. "So that transition period was just a challenge."​
Bonnifield and his brother did deploy to Iraq, in different units. And they both dealt with severe mental health issues upon their return. Bonnifield said Walz the congressman worked to connect struggling Guard members with help and sought to cut red tape.​
"If you listen to him, he's got a very loud, strong voice," Bonnifield said. "But there's a very caring person inside. And one very good leader, too."​
 
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Then check what he did in Congress:


VA waitlist​

Just two years later, in 2014, Walz found himself working across the aisle as one of the lawmakers looking into the Department of Veterans Affairs lengthy waitlists as a member of the Veterans Affairs Committee.​
During a hearing with VA whistleblowers that July, Walz criticized the department for having a goal but no strategy to address its shortcomings.​
“I would submit to all of us here, the watchdog on this and the outside agency to look at this is here, it’s us. We’re given the constitutional right to do it,” Walz said. “When I go home I’m asked about this and I should be held accountable.”​
Walz co-sponsored several bipartisan bills addressing the structure of the VA in the months that followed and voted to approve legislation overhauling aspects of VA healthcare in July 2014 after being named to the conference committee that negotiated the final version of the bill.​
“Make no mistake, this bill isn’t perfect. It will not solve all of VA’s problems, but it does allow us to take a step forward in reforming the VA to provide veterans and their families with real solutions,” Walz said in a statement released following the House’s vote to approve the measure.​
Walz would go on to seek the top Democratic seat on the Veterans Affairs Committee a few years later, eventually securing the title of ranking member during his last term in Congress from January 2017 to January 2019.​
Tennessee Republican Rep. Phil Roe, who was chairman of the panel at the time, released a written statement that he was “thrilled to hear that my good friend and fellow veteran” was selected by Democrats as their top member on the committee.​
“Rep. Walz has been a tireless advocate for veterans, and I know he will continue that fight as Ranking Member,” Roe said. “I look forward to working alongside Rep. Walz as we strive on both sides of the aisle to improve the lives of our nation’s heroes.”​
 
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The point of this thread is that both Vance and Walz should be respected for their service. They did not control who went where.
As the OP states: I would call for us to respect both Vance's and Walz' service.
 
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Always in His Presence

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They are Swift-boating Walz.
Not according to the people who served with him and the National Guard itself.

Walz can end the whole controversy today by showing his DD214

I’m thinking he will not because it shows his rank.

Keep in mind - this is not a suddenly. Walz's fellow soldiers have been bringing this up for more than a decade. It's has been ignored, but they have never stopped.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Not according to the people who served with him and the National Guard itself.

Walt can end the whole controversy today by showing his DD214

I’m thinking he will not because it shows his rank.
There are other people who appreciated him from his unit.

I think the Republicans were left 'flat-footed' when Biden withdrew and the fast acceptance of Harris. The mud-slinging started right off (Walz military service and Harris's race and ethnicity) but they are failing.


According to records by the National Guard, the 1st Battalion of the 125th Field Artillery received an alert order on July 14, 2005, - two months after Walz retired. The mobilization order came in August and the unit mobilized in October.​
Joseph Eustice, another retired command sergeant major who served with Walz, tells ABC News that while there was speculation of a deployment around that time there was no firm indication that Walz's unit would be sent to Iraq until that July alert order.​
Eustice says he remembers Walz struggling with the timing of wanting to serve as a lawmaker but also avoiding asking for a deferment so he could do so.​
"He had a window of time. He had to decide. And in his deciding, we were not on notice to be deployed. There were rumors. There were lots of rumors, and we didn't know where we were going until it was later that, early summer, I believe," Eustice told ABC News....​
Walz served as command sergeant major but didn't stay in that role long enough to keep it in retirement.​
There's no evidence Walz broke any rules by retiring when he did. After more than 20 years of service with the National Guard, a person can retire at any point, regardless of where they are in their contract, according to the National Guard.​
 
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Always in His Presence

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There are other people who appreciated him from his unit.
Yep, there are people who thought well of him - that is not the point.

I don't know if anyone is saying he broke any rules when it came to his service - that is not the point either

The fact he retired - is perfectly fine and that is not the point either.

He has stated for years he was a Command Sergeant Major - he was not - he was demoted when he retired. He never mentioned the demotion - he never mentioned his actual title right now which is Ret. Sergeant Major - he still assumed the position he lost.

"He's used the rank that he never achieved in order to advance his political career," he said. "I mean, he still says he's a retired command sergeant major to this day, and he's not. He uses the rank of others to make it look like he's a better person than he is."

And he did so to curry favor and reputation as "the highest ranked non commissioned soldier in Congress. And that my friend is the point.
 
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FreeinChrist

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From MPR news:


By the time Walz left the military, he achieved the rank of command sergeant major, one of the top ranks for an enlisted soldier. Personnel file records show that he was reduced in rank months after retiring, leaving him as a master sergeant for benefits purposes.​
Capt. Holly Rockow, a public affairs officer for the Minnesota National Guard, said it is legitimate for Walz to say he served as a command sergeant major. She said the rank changed because Walz retired before completing coursework at the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy along with other requirements associated with his promotion.​
As command sergeant major, Walz holds the distinction as the highest-elected enlisted member ever to serve in Congress, a point of pride colleagues sometimes brought up at Capitol Hill hearings.​
 
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Fantine

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Has Walz said these two were close to him, or are they alleging they are?
He worked with hundreds of people, maybe thousands, over the years.
If a poll were held, i would guess at least 80%, probably many more, would approve of him.
His students and football players describe him as that teacher who had a profound influence on their lives--a mentor, an inspiration.
 
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DaisyDay

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Not according to the people who served with him and the National Guard itself.

Walz can end the whole controversy today by showing his DD214

I’m thinking he will not because it shows his rank.

Keep in mind - this is not a suddenly. Walz's fellow soldiers have been bringing this up for more than a decade. It's has been ignored, but they have never stopped.
The swiftboaters claim they are not swiftboating?
 
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Always in His Presence

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The swiftboaters claim they are not swiftboating?
Is that the newest retort from the DNC. We should start a thread to track them

Weird
Joufull
Swift boating

There are those it seems if they say it enough times it becomes truth.

It doesn’t.
 
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This is not an axe-grinding post. I found it interesting. To a retired communicator and mostly retired freelancer, his Marine service sounded like fun.
His six-months in Iraq sounded like the legwork for so many profiles and articles I'd written. Shadowing people, visiting places, learning and sharing. I loved my career, but that kind of work is rarely a deep dive.
I would call for us to respect both Vance's and Walz' service.
Neither was in the infantry or on the front lines. Neither was in imminent danger.
Let's just be grateful and end all the put downs.
From yon article:
“For the last nine months of his service, Vance was the media relations officer for the Marine Corps Air Station in Cherry Point, North Carolina, one of the largest military bases on the East Coast.” [Article quoth endth here]

He opened mail and was in charge of turning out the lights at the end of the day, at the base radio station.. He also may have refilled some vending machines*

*
This is satire but, not by much, I’ll wager.
 
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DaisyDay

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Is that the newest retort from the DNC. We should start a thread to track them

Weird
Joufull
Joufull? Can you give an example?
Swift boating
I don't know what the DNC is putting out (besides "weird", lols) but I do remember the swiftboat attacks against Kerry. The attacks were not credible but they were coordinated. The attacks on Walz is cut from the same cloth. Donald launched a similar attack against McCain, but only a few had the stomach to join that smearfest.
There are those it seems if they say it enough times it becomes truth.

It doesn’t.
Then there is the opposite tactic of repeating a term (e.g. "racist") so often, so inaptly that semantic satiation renders the words and terms meaningless.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Joufull? Can you give an example?
You still don't get it, that I am now doing that just for you. Your welcome

Joyful warriors’ Kamala Harris, Tim Walz campaign together in Eau Claire; vice president, JD Vance at airport at same time​


The Power of Tim Walz's Joyful Charm​


Megyn Kelly: Media Leaning Hard Into "The New Kamala," Rebranding Her As "Joyful" and The "Cool Wine Aunt"​


Harris softens Biden's dark warnings about the state of democracy for a more 'joyful' message​


‘Joyful Warriors’ Harris and Walz Hit the Midwest​


Harris and Walz say they're 'joyful warriors,' narrowly avoid confrontation with Vance on tarmac​


Say it enough times and people start to believe it - I think that is written someplce in hystery. (typos planned)
 
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Always in His Presence

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Swiftboating

Keilar has a message for those ‘swiftboating’ Vance or Walz’s military records

Harlan Crow Helped Fund Swiftboating. Trump Campaign Continues That Legacy in Walz Attack​


With ‘Swift Boat’ architect at the helm, Trump campaign uses familiar playbook against Walz​


you get the idea - say it enough times and people begin to believe it is true.
 
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Always in His Presence

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By the time Walz left the military, he achieved the rank of command sergeant major, one of the top ranks for an enlisted soldier. Personnel file records show that he was reduced in rank months after retiring, leaving him as a master sergeant for benefits purposes.
No - the demotion does not come post service - he did not meet the requirements of a CMS - those who served understand - His current title and the one he should be using is Ret. Master Sergeant - His Rank upon exiting the military would be on his DD214 - he could end all speculation by showing it. He has not -

He used his former rank to make himself look good and promote something he is not for political gain.
 
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Fantine

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Apparently these ambiguous allegations have been following him since he ran for Congress 18 years ago--and yet he won every election.
And now, with a solid record of accomplishment, years being a strong Congressional advocate for the military and vets, and progressive reforms that have made Minnesota a hub for business and a happy place to live he is still stalked.
Their complete irrelevance to voters (other than those who already have chosen Trump) seems obvious.
 
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