Olympics approves two men to box against women after opening ceremony scandal

[FaithT]

A male with a vagina.

What happened to follow rhe biology?

So much for the argument that God only makes males and females. What does this say about the Bible where it says God only made male and female? Is the Bible wrong?

 

[RileyG]

So much for the argument that God only makes males and females. What does this say about the Bible where it says God only made male and female? Is the Bible wrong?

No. Disorders occur because of the fall.

 

[FaithT]

No. Disorders occur because of the fall.

Then who decides if the person is male or female? IMO s/he shouldn’t be allowed to participate in the Olympics.

 

[RileyG]

Then who decides if the person is male or female? IMO s/he shouldn’t be allowed to participate in the Olympics.

I don't know.

I agree, they shouldn't.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I don’t know if I used the correct term:

Accusations surround Olympic boxer Imane Khelif over being a woman. Let's define some terms

Understand terms intersex, DSDs as Imane Khelif continues to face scrutiny over her gender and sex at the 2024 Paris Olympic Games.

www.desertsun.com

Yeah, Riles, I don't know either. But, that's ok, no one does - Check below.

I brought receipts. The IBA released a second statement regarding this. Where are yours?

Well, l used to work some retail, so let's check that receipt, shall we ?

Statement made by the International Boxing Association regarding Athletes Disqualifications in World Boxing Championships 2023

Partial quote below (Red comments mine)

On 24 March 2023, IBA disqualified athletes Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif from the IBA Women’s World Boxing Championships New Delhi 2023. This disqualification was a result of their failure to meet the eligibility criteria for participating in the women’s competition, as set and laid out in the IBA Regulations.

(Which IBA Regulations ? Also, why were both women eligible to participate in previous competition and why were they allowed to participate in 2023 up to this point. What was the rule change ?)

This decision, made after a meticulous review, was extremely important and necessary to uphold the level of fairness and utmost integrity of the competition.

(Especially after both women had beaten Russian competitors in the 2023 competition and were heavy favorites to win their divisions. Is this all a coincidence? IBA is basically owned and operated a by Gazprom – a Russian Gas and Oil company. You decide)

Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination (The reason that is noted is because both women could pass a testosterone test – more on that later) but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential. (Wait, what ? They failed a test but you won't tell us what test it was ? When was this test even part of the competition? What rules allow said test?)

This test conclusively indicated that both athletes did not meet the required necessary eligibility criteria and were found to have competitive advantages over other female competitors. (Again, what rules were broken and what regulations allow for this to occur?)

It goes on but why bother? These women were tried in a secret court or crimes unknown, found guilty and removed from competition without explanation. That’s the Russian, opps, sorry, the IBA way.

No wonder the IBA has been removed from international competition.

I find your receipt wanting.

OK so you favor males with X,Y chromosomes competing in women's sports.

Goodbye women's sports as males will now be allowed to compete in them.

Hi Jim :

Long time, no type. A maybe fair assessment of the situation, if a little dour. But, honestly, I think this may have been going on for all a long time already, and we just noticed it. I don't know. And the more I learn about all this, the less I know.

You know what ? I never even heard the term "DSD" until about 20 minutes ago, but I find myself surround by "experts" on the subject.

Well, you guys know me (except for the Seashale guy, but maybe we can be friend anyway), and I do research so you don't have to:

As a retired teacher, not a fan of Wikipedia but it's a place to start. This page is both insufficiently cited and has great citations. It's also hard to follow, but that's because the subject is REALLY complicated. Once you get start following the citations and doing supplemental research, you go down a serious rat hole.

Disorders of sex development - Wikipedia

DSD encompasses at least 7 different disorders that can lead to over 25 different conditions ranging from mild to possibly life-threatening, and 4 of the 7 disorders involve various XY chromosome interactions.

I am not good with biology. It's not my long suit by any means, but the one thing I did get out of this is that it's both biologically and scientifically incorrect to call an individual a 'man' simply because they have an XY chromosome combination in their DNA.

Is this "intersex", I don't know. The terminology is all balled up in medicine, biology, politics, prejudice and the personal pride of DSD sufferers.

I know it's not intersexed way I think of it, or maybe it is, it's hard to say. It's complicated. And after doing some research, I'm sure of only one thing: politicians shouldn't be involved in trying to figure this out because none of them are smart enough.

BUT

As to athletic competition....

....because that's what we care about here....

A DSD female might have an advantage but how much and to what extent is not only debatable, it's questionable. People want to say these women are really men.

Ok.

A typical man in his 20's is walking around with about 300-1000 ng/DL of testosterone in their bloodstream.

A typical woman is walking about with 75-100 ng/DL of testosterone in their bloodstream. A female athlete in competition is allowed a little more than that but not much and nowhere near 300 ng/DL. A female athlete with 300 ng/DL of testosterone in their bloodstream would likely have facial hair and would be excluded from competition for doping. Because there is no way a female, even one with XY chromosomes, can produce enough testosterone naturally to have 300 ng/DL.

These people are NOT men. They don't produce anywhere near the testosterone to be considered male. You can't put them in male competition, it would just be improper.

I don't have a quick answer for any of this. These people probably have a natural advantage against other women, but other women have natural advantages as well (reach, height, endurance, etc) and no one is up in arms about those. These women have both been boxing for years, and they both have lost several times to other women, so it's not like they just showed up and are moping the floor with other women.

I know, a pretty Italian woman (who, quite frankly wasn't going to win a medal and who puts the "amateur" in amateur boxing) got her nose broken by a big, nasty Muslim from Algiers. Well, she's a boxer, this isn't synchronized swimming. And, take a good look a Khelif, she's had her nose broken more than once.

But to call her a "man". I don't think so. DSD is common enough (2% of births). Maybe they need their own category. But that would mean that everyone would have to agree there IS more then two genders.

I don't think that's gonna fly.

 

[seashale76]

Pertaining to the topic: A simple cheek swab can protect female boxers
IBA letter to IOC, June 2023: Boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes' | 3 Wire Sports
x.com
they could easily prove they were women

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Of Fascist propaganda and Russians Troll farms, I give the IBA.

The governing body who no receipts.

These women are being slandered because they beat Russian fighters in the Asian games last year.

Banned governing body that's fueling outcry on Olympic boxers has Russian ties and troubled history

The allegations that Olympic boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting failed an eligibility test for women's competition have been made by only the International Boxing Association.

apnews.com

 

[chevyontheriver]

Wait. We're all of a sudden identifying her as a man even though she was born with female anatomy?

I'm not going to be demanding photographic evidence of every part of this person's anatomy. But I do wonder if she has a functional uterus and ovaries OR just lacks a particular male member. I don't think that is unequivocally answered yet.

Well, I don't know what prevails, the chromosome configuration or the fact that her anatomy is unequivocally female. I find it peculiar that people who are otherwise conservative on this issue are calling someone a man who was born with a uterus and female anatomy. However, she shouldn't have been allowed to be in the Olympics.

Normally genetics is the determiner. And since the bulk of testosterone is produced by testes, maybe 'she' has those too. I have not done a physical inspection. Nor do I want to be the person to do so.

If we are going to have male sports, and female sports, and them separate, then we need to be able to have an agreeable way to distinguish male from female. If you want it to be just on their say so, or on what's on a passport, or what shows up in a strip search, or testosterone levels, or the result of a MRI, or what the genetics say, just pick one. And if it's not right the real biological women will be the losers and the men will take over women's sports. Fine if that's what you want to maintain 'equity' and 'inclusiveness' and 'diversity'. But then our daughters may as well drop out. I for one have cheered my biological daughter and my biological grand-daughters on and would be perturbed seeing them lose out to someone with a five o'clock shadow.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Sorry Chevy Im just not going to let this go because I'm sick of the lies

I'm not going to be demanding photographic evidence of every part of this person's anatomy. But I do wonder if she has a functional uterus and ovaries OR just lacks a particular male member. I don't think that is unequivocally answered yet.

Both women have official type documents from their respective countries claiming they were female at birth. One has actually produced the birth certificate. The bullying continues

Both women claim to be non transgender female..

The only people claiming they are XY or DSD or trans is the IBA. And the have yet produce any proof. They claim there is a test . Two in fact. They won't say what it is, they won't give any results.

Thars called a rumor. That's what the IBA has. They started a rumor.

So what evidence are you looking for to refute this rumor, exactly?

Normally genetics is the determiner. And since the bulk of testosterone is produced by testes, maybe 'she' has those too. I have not done a physical inspection. Nor do I want to be the person to do so.

Now THIS is called rumor mongering.

If we are going to have male sports, and female sports, and them separate, then we need to be able to have an agreeable way to distinguish male from female. If you want it to be just on their say so, or on what's on a passport, or what shows up in a strip search, or testosterone levels, or the result of a MRI, or what the genetics say, just pick one. And if it's not right the real biological women will be the losers and the men will take over women's sports. Fine if that's what you want to maintain 'equity' and 'inclusiveness' and 'diversity'. But then our daughters may as well drop out. I for one have cheered my biological daughter and my biological grand-daughters on and would be perturbed seeing them lose out to someone with a five o'clock shadow.

And this is flat out bearing false witness. Neither has ever failed atestotone test. Both have documents showing they are female, yet you make that case they are not.

There is no ideology here. Just female competitors. And a rumor started by the IBA, an organization so corrupt the IOC won't even do business with it anymore.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Sorry Chevy Im just not going to let this go because I'm sick of the lies

Clearly you don't like the IBA. Maybe you have some basis for that. I don't know. Is there some good reason they are 'out to get' these two people? Or do they have actual evidence?

 

[seashale76]

Yeah, we should totally trust a birth certificate that didn't exist before 5 years ago over a DNA test by two separate independent labs. That makes sense.

Everyone was gaslit over Caster Semenya for years. Now, HE admits he has male parts and has fathered children.

 

[RileyG]

Yeah, we should totally trust a birth certificate that didn't exist before 5 years ago over a DNA test by two separate independent labs. That makes sense.

Everyone was gaslit over Caster Semenya for years. Now, HE admits he has male parts and has fathered children.

If he fathered children, that means he's a biological male.

Yet he identifies as a lesbian

 

[FaithT]

If he fathered children, that means he's a biological male.

Yet he identifies as a lesbian

Weird.

 

[RileyG]

Weird.

Yup. Apparently, biology is irrelevant to gender. Lol

 

[seashale76]

Men with DSDs, men who want to be women, women who want to be men, and those who claim to be neither male nor female all somehow get to compete in the women's category. The men's category is, apparently, sacrosanct. Why can't the women's category be left alone like the men's? This is misogyny in action.

 

[Wolseley]

Yup. Apparently, biology is irrelevant to gender. Lol

That's what they want us to believe. However, if one steps away from The Alternative La-La Land Universe for a few moments, reality looks quite a bit different from feverish myth.

Men with DSDs, men who want to be women, women who want to be men, and those who claim to be neither male nor female all somehow get to compete in the women's category. The men's category is, apparently, sacrosanct. Why can't the women's category be left alone like the men's? This is misogyny in action.

I think it's likely because those women who want to pretend to be men know, somewhere deep down inside themselves, no matter how hard they may try to deny it, that they are women, and not men---and if they go into male sports at 110 pounds with female upper body strength, they're going to get clobbered by actual males weighing 206 pounds with enormous upper body strength.

I mean, playing pretend is fun and all, especially when you can force people to play along with your fantasy; but deliberately going out and getting yourself crippled to prove your point is another thing altogether. That's why you have males pretending to be women going into female categories, but you don't see many females pretending to be men going into male categories.

 

[FaithT]

That's what they want us to believe. However, if one steps away from The Alternative La-La Land Universe for a few moments, reality looks quite a bit different from feverish myth.

I think it's likely because those women who want to pretend to be men know, somewhere deep down inside themselves, no matter how hard they may try to deny it, that they are women, and not men---and if they go into male sports at 110 pounds with female upper body strength, they're going to get clobbered by actual males weighing 206 pounds with enormous upper body strength.

I mean, playing pretend is fun and all, especially when you can force people to play along with your fantasy; but deliberately going out and getting yourself crippled to prove your point is another thing altogether. That's why you have males pretending to be women going into female categories, but you don't see many females pretending to be men going into male categories.

Yeah, but then we have the Chastity Bono’s of the world.

 

[Michie]

Yeah, but then we have the Chastity Bono’s of the world.

Chaz! You are deadnaming now! *gasp*

 

[FaithT]

Chaz! You are deadnaming now! *gasp*

Hahaha. She’ll always be Chastity to me.

 

[Wolseley]

Yeah, but then we have the Chastity Bono’s of the world.

Yes, or the "Elliott" Pages.

She makes about the most pathetic-looking "man" I've ever seen.