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Holy Spirit

NBB

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I believe the most important thing in life, after believing in Jesus, is being filled with the Holy spirit like pentecostals believe, this is real, not every believer gets filled at believing in Jesus, like in the bible, sometimes we need to seek it, and for me is the meaning of life to have Him like that, he is our creator and he can be guide and friend. He is not like the kings of this earth who don't give even the time of day, but he is more important than any of those, the bible says he wishes us i don't remember the exact word in English, but our creator is such a beautiful person and wants to be our comforter guide and friend, is so awesome but people miss him, for wrong beliefs, like "everyone gets filled at believing" that has to be one of the most damaging beliefs ever.
 

mourningdove~

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I believe the most important thing in life, after believing in Jesus, is being filled with the Holy spirit like pentecostals believe, this is real, not every believer gets filled at believing in Jesus, like in the bible, sometimes we need to seek it, and for me is the meaning of life to have Him like that, he is our creator and he can be guide and friend. He is not like the kings of this earth who don't give even the time of day, but he is more important than any of those, the bible says he wishes us i don't remember the exact word in English, but our creator is such a beautiful person and wants to be our comforter guide and friend, is so awesome but people miss him, for wrong beliefs, like "everyone gets filled at believing" that has to be one of the most damaging beliefs ever.
You may catch alot of 'flack' here ... for what you have just written ...
but not from me.
I agree.

May God continue to bless you.

:plus:
 
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BobRyan

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The Holy Spirit (third Person of the Godhead) convicts the lost of Sin - as we see in John 16.
He causes the New Birth - as we see in John 3 and at the end of Romans 2.
He enables us to walk in obedience to the Word of God as we see in Rom 8:4-11
He inspired all of scripture 2 Tim 3:16 ; 2 Pet 1:21
He even intercedes for us in prayer -- Rom 8:26-30

So there we have Him as our daily personal guide and friend -

He is also the one who determines spiritual gifts 1 Cor 12.
Some have that - and some do not. 1 Cor 14 Paul tells us to desire earnestly spiritual gifts "especially that you may prophesy"
 
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RandyPNW

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You may catch alot of 'flack' here ... for what you have just written ...
but not from me.
I agree.

May God continue to bless you.

:plus:
Everybody *should be* filled at the time they 1st put their faith in Jesus. But sometimes the whole Gospel is not preached, and the person does not completely commit to the Christ they have just met. If they do not fully commit to Christ they may not get the Holy Spirit as an indwelling presence.

Making a full commitment does not mean 100% perfection in that commitment. It is just an honest start. The Holy Spirit goes with obedience to God through faith in His word. The Spirit not only enables us to obey God's word but He also puts God's continuing presence in our lives.

I converted from Lutheran to Pentecostal for just the reason you give, that it opened me up to a more committed sense of following the Lord. My Lutheran background did not appear to provide sufficient teaching to warn me about associations in the pagan world. My view of "sinners" was more like street people from broken homes, and viewed more successful people as "godly."

Pentecostals really were, to me, not so much guardians of the Holy Spirit, but a modern reform movement designed to revive our commitment to Christ with an attendant attention to spiritual phenomena in our lives. It appears that historical Christian movements lose their spiritual vitality with time, and suffer a lot of spiritual potency as compromise with paganism enters in gradually.

I think that a revival spirit can take place within any denomination if there are smaller groups that support it, though the historical establishment presiding over these groups likely are resistant to any claiming to be "more spiritual." I do not embrace all that Pentecostals claim as part of their theology, such as "Tongues is the sign of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit," and "all should speak in tongues."

I reject that "all can have all the gifts," and reject Dispensationalism. Faith Healing is overdone as an always-expected outcome. And often Prophecy is false or abused. But I would not resist any of these spiritual gifts if they are operating properly and in accord with the Scriptures.
 
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rturner76

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our creator is such a beautiful person and wants to be our comforter guide and friend,
I totally agree and he can be that whether one seeks to worship in silence or tounges.
but people miss him, for wrong beliefs, like "everyone gets filled at believing" that has to be one of the most damaging beliefs ever.
Can you clarify? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit upon accepting Christ and being baptized unless we do things like jump up and down, scream, faint, or speak ing tongues? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit when we gather in the name of Jesus and somberly ask for his forgiveness and guidance?

I just want to make sure that I understand what you are claiming.
 
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NBB

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I totally agree and he can be that whether one seeks to worship in silence or tounges.

Can you clarify? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit upon accepting Christ and being baptized unless we do things like jump up and down, scream, faint, or speak ing tongues? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit when we gather in the name of Jesus and somberly ask for his forgiveness and guidance?

I just want to make sure that I understand what you are claiming.

One trap of the enemy is to make people think because there bad people that are false, or are doing things the wrong way everything that looks similar is false. Great way to smear God and people and actually sin greatly.
 
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NBB

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I totally agree and he can be that whether one seeks to worship in silence or tounges.

Can you clarify? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit upon accepting Christ and being baptized unless we do things like jump up and down, scream, faint, or speak ing tongues? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit when we gather in the name of Jesus and somberly ask for his forgiveness and guidance?

I just want to make sure that I understand what you are claiming.

I believe being filled with the Holy spirit is something we need to seek most of the time. And for me is the best that can happen to a person.
 
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mourningdove~

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Everybody *should be* filled at the time they 1st put their faith in Jesus. But sometimes the whole Gospel is not preached, and the person does not completely commit to the Christ they have just met. If they do not fully commit to Christ they may not get the Holy Spirit as an indwelling presence.

Making a full commitment does not mean 100% perfection in that commitment. It is just an honest start. The Holy Spirit goes with obedience to God through faith in His word. The Spirit not only enables us to obey God's word but He also puts God's continuing presence in our lives.

I converted from Lutheran to Pentecostal for just the reason you give, that it opened me up to a more committed sense of following the Lord. My Lutheran background did not appear to provide sufficient teaching to warn me about associations in the pagan world. My view of "sinners" was more like street people from broken homes, and viewed more successful people as "godly."

Pentecostals really were, to me, not so much guardians of the Holy Spirit, but a modern reform movement designed to revive our commitment to Christ with an attendant attention to spiritual phenomena in our lives. It appears that historical Christian movements lose their spiritual vitality with time, and suffer a lot of spiritual potency as compromise with paganism enters in gradually.

I think that a revival spirit can take place within any denomination if there are smaller groups that support it, though the historical establishment presiding over these groups likely are resistant to any claiming to be "more spiritual." I do not embrace all that Pentecostals claim as part of their theology, such as "Tongues is the sign of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit," and "all should speak in tongues."

I reject that "all can have all the gifts," and reject Dispensationalism. Faith Healing is overdone as an always-expected outcome. And often Prophecy is false or abused. But I would not resist any of these spiritual gifts if they are operating properly and in accord with the Scriptures.

You make some very good points.

And while I do believe in what is called 'the baptism of the Holy Spirit', I don't accept all Pentecostal beliefs and practices either. (I very much disagree with forcing the issue of speaking in tongues in order "to prove" one has been filled with the Spirit.)

I definitely believe a revival spirit can take place within any denomination!
"You will seek Me and find Me, when You seek Me with all of your heart."
 
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NBB

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When God is present sometimes, people can revolt on the floor probably because being set free of spirits or being ministered, others can get emotional, specially old ladies, is natural, i would advise people to be careful making accusations.
 
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BobRyan

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I reject that "all can have all the gifts," and reject Dispensationalism. Faith Healing is overdone as an always-expected outcome. And often Prophecy is false or abused. But I would not resist any of these spiritual gifts if they are operating properly and in accord with the Scriptures.
In 1 Cor 14 (and 1 Cor 12) the Holy Spirit is in charge of giving out gifts and in the special case of prophecy the Holy Spirit is totally in charge. So much so that 1 Cor 14 says that if one prophet is giving the god-given message given to him - and while he is speaking another prophet gets a message from God - then the first one is to stop immediately and let the second one speak.

1 Cor 14 calls prophecy one of the "greater gifts" - and Paul says to "especially desire that you may prophesy"

That is very unlike the 1 Cor 14 instruction for a gift like tongues. In the tongues case the Holy Spirit is absolutely not in charge of the one speaking and so that person must wait their turn... and in fact if there is no interpreter for their message than they should just zip-it remain quiet .. speak at home alone about it.

So then if the prophecy is not of God, is false etc -- then the person claiming " it is God that directly gave that message" -- is actually sinning, they are guilty of a lie - claiming God told them something when in fact he did no such thing. They are not simply guilty of a mistake - rather they are outright lying about what God has actually done. They are due some sort of church disapproval . Numbers 12 says "If there is a prophet among you - I will make Myself know to him by a dream or vision" -- a divine supernatural act of communication. Not "a guess" not "an impression" not simply "a very good idea that came to mind".

By contrast if the person who speaks in a tongue makes a mistake, speaks out of order, or speaks when it turns out that no one is there to interpret - well then "no harm no foul" according to 1 Cor 14. Just try to be more careful next time. That means God is not at all in charge of the exercise of that gift. It is kind of like saying that someone could suddenly speak Spanish but then they spoke a word of encouragement in Spanish when no Spanish hearer turned out to be in the room. A simple mistake - no evil act involved. Just be more careful next time.
 
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That is very unlike the 1 Cor 14 instruction for a gift like tongues. In the tongues case the Holy Spirit is absolutely not in charge of the one speaking and so that person must wait their turn... and in fact if there is no interpreter for their message than they should just zip-it remain quiet .. speak at home alone about it.

By contrast if the person who speaks in a tongue makes a mistake, speaks out of order, or speaks when it turns out that no one is there to interpret - well then "no harm no foul" according to 1 Cor 14. Just try to be more careful next time. That means God is not at all in charge of the exercise of that gift. It is kind of like saying that someone could suddenly speak Spanish but then they spoke a word of encouragement in Spanish when no Spanish hearer turned out to be in the room. A simple mistake - no evil act involved. Just be more careful next time.

Let me guess,.... you gleaned your understanding from what you read and have no experience around the gifts operating in the corporate setting?
 
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rturner76

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One trap of the enemy is to make people think because there bad people that are false, or are doing things the wrong way everything that looks similar is false. Great way to smear God and people and actually sin greatly.
I hope I didn't give the impression that I think people who are genuinely moved by the Spirit can't have a physical manifestation of that connection that is extremely moving. I just don't believe that it is the only way or a better way to express that connection
I believe being filled with the Holy spirit is something we need to seek most of the time. And for me is the best that can happen to a person.
I agree that we need to seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe that the expression is manifested in many ways, not just the more animated super excited way as in the Pentecostal tradition. In my personal case, I feel the greatest connection with the Holy Spirit when I can be still and quiet and listen for his voice in a meditative contemplative state.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I care about this because i want every person to experience the best of the best the whole existence has to offer.
Not everyone gets filled at believing we need to seek it!.
Most importantly, the born again conversion, receiving His Holy Spirit, only takes place when one loves Jesus Christ of Nazareth more than anyone or anything. Many are born into tradition and denominations never to really know our Christ through His Holy Spirit. Those who seek shall find.
Blessings
 
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I believe the most important thing in life, after believing in Jesus, is being filled with the Holy spirit like pentecostals believe, this is real, not every believer gets filled at believing in Jesus, like in the bible, sometimes we need to seek it, and for me is the meaning of life to have Him like that, he is our creator and he can be guide and friend. He is not like the kings of this earth who don't give even the time of day, but he is more important than any of those, the bible says he wishes us i don't remember the exact word in English, but our creator is such a beautiful person and wants to be our comforter guide and friend, is so awesome but people miss him, for wrong beliefs, like "everyone gets filled at believing" that has to be one of the most damaging beliefs ever.
The first gift that we receive from God is a person, Jesus Christ. The Greek word for "gift" in this case shows that the gift is a person. The next gift that God gives us is another person, the Holy Spirit. The "gifts" of the Holy Spirit are manifestations of the indwelling Holy Spirit. They are the outflow of the Holy Spirit from within us.

Being born is again is when Jesus comes to live within in us by faith. The baptism with the Spirit is when the Holy Spirit comes to live in us, and we receive Him by faith also. In the three references in Acts where the Holy Spirit fell on those who received Christ, tongues was a feature. These are the three times where the infilling of the Holy Spirit is described in detail. When the Apostles heard Peter's testimony of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit, they had no doubt that they received it because they spoke in tongues. That was the only way that Peter, and the Apostles knew that these ones had received the Spirit. Tongues is a manifestation of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and is an outflow of the Spirit from our mouth.

Can you imagine an elephant without a trunk? No. The elephant comes with his trunk. Can we know that a person is really filled with the Holy Spirit without them speaking in tongues? This is why the three descriptions in Acts showed that these ones showed they were filled with the Spirit when they spoke in tongues. Try asking your pet cat what the use of tongues is. It can't answer, because it doesn't have a trunk, and knows nothing about elephants. The only ones who can describe the use of a trunk is the elephant itself. In the same way, only those who are baptised with the Spirit and speaking in tongues can show the uses of the manifestation.

Derek Prince tells of praying for a German woman in Berlin for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The woman spoke perfect English, and it was praises to Jesus. The woman had no knowledge of English at all. In a meeting in Tennessee, a woman received the baptism with the Spirit and spoke for an hour in perfect French, having no knowledge of the language. In my own church, a guest from Ghana heard my friend speaking praises to Jesus in his own village dialect, and my friend had never been to Ghana and know nothing of the dialect. I had a personal experience of praying quietly in tongues during a meeting and a NZ Maori friend sitting beside me told me I was speaking encouraging things to her fluently in the Maori Language, and I had no knowledge of that language at the time.

These events absolutely blows the cessationist notions that tongues is not for today, right out of the water!

Of course, we have a type of hyper Charismatic which preaches prosperity, guaranteed healing, and ignores the Gospel involving Jesus dying on the Cross, and has its faith in experiences rather than the Bible and encourages a type of self righteousness. I believe this is counterfeit Charismatic, and the tongues and prophecies come out of this movement are also counterfeit. Unfortunately, prominent cessationists tend to use this false Charismatic as examples why prophecy and tongues is not for today.
 
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I totally agree and he can be that whether one seeks to worship in silence or tounges.

Can you clarify? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit upon accepting Christ and being baptized unless we do things like jump up and down, scream, faint, or speak ing tongues? Are we not filled with the Holy Spirit when we gather in the name of Jesus and somberly ask for his forgiveness and guidance?

I just want to make sure that I understand what you are claiming.
If Luke, who wrote the Book Acts, gives three descriptions of people being baptised with the Spirit, tongues, according to him was the indication that these people had indeed received the filling of the Holy Spirit. Note that all of those in Cornelius' household praised God in tongues, and all of the 12 disciples at Ephesus praised God in tongues and prophecy. All of the 120 in the upper room spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave utterance. We don't see in any of the descriptions that some spoke in tongues and others didn't. Therefore, if we accept the New Testament description of people being baptised with the Spirit, then tongues is the normal outflow that shows that the person has received the Holy Spirit.

As far as I am concerned, if a person says they have been baptised with the Spirit and not spoken in tongues, they cannot prove to me that they are indeed filled with the Spirit according to the New Testament. Of course there are anti-Charismatic groups that say they are filled with the Spirit, but if they don't speak in tongues, they are not filled with the Holy Spirit according to the New Testament no matter what they say. They might just have a religious spirit instead.

Also, the modern hyper Charismatic word of faith and prosperity people who place their faith on experiences rather than the Scriptures. and who also rely on inner voices and new revelation, are demonstrating a counterfeit spirit and not the Holy Spirit as described in the New Testament. Therefore their tongues and prophecies are counterfeit as a result. It is sad that many good believers confuse these false Charismatics with the true Pentecostals who worship God, rejoice in Jesus Christ, and base their experience in the Holy Spirit and His manifestations squarely in the New Testament description of them.
 
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You make some very good points.

And while I do believe in what is called 'the baptism of the Holy Spirit', I don't accept all Pentecostal beliefs and practices either. (I very much disagree with forcing the issue of speaking in tongues in order "to prove" one has been filled with the Spirit.)

I definitely believe a revival spirit can take place within any denomination!
"You will seek Me and find Me, when You seek Me with all of your heart."
When a person is genuinely baptised with the Spirit, the manifestation of tongues flows out of them. They don't have to force tongues at all. If there is no flow of tongues from the person's innermost being, then that person cannot say definitely that they have actually been baptised with the Holy Spirit according to the New Testament.
 
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When a person is genuinely baptised with the Spirit, the manifestation of tongues flows out of them. They don't have to force tongues at all. If there is now flow of tongues from the person's innermost being, then that person cannot say definitely that they have actually been baptised with the Holy Spirit according to the New Testament.
Can you explain more?
(Maybe some Scriptures?)

(I ask sincerely. I usually find your posts to be very informative.)
 
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When God is present sometimes, people can revolt on the floor probably because being set free of spirits or being ministered, others can get emotional, specially old ladies, is natural, i would advise people to be careful making accusations.
Yes. We need to be careful about making accusations, because curses can be put on people through them. We are instructed in Scripture to bless people, not say negative things about them. A person's life can be blighted by accusations. Even if we think a person is wrong, we need to emphasis the positive things, and seek to correct the person in a spirit of humility knowing that we can easily go into error if we are not careful and vigilant.

If we have Jesus living in our hearts by faith, we have the presence of God in us, 24 hours a day. When we come together as Spirit-filled people, praising the glorifying Jesus, we bring the presence of God with us as we fellowship together.
 
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Let me guess,.... you gleaned your understanding from what you read and have no experience around the gifts operating in the corporate setting?
Only an elephant can tell us the different uses of its trunk. And we never see an elephant without a trunk. A zebra can't comment about whether an elephant's trunk is useful or not, because it hasn't got one. In the same way, a person who has not been baptised with the Spirit, can't make any comment about someone who has, and cannot show any understanding of the manifestation of the gifts.

I believe that the baptism with the Spirit comes with tongues, according to the New Testament description of those who were baptised with the Spirit, because according to Luke, he, Peter, and Paul knew that the Holy Spirit had fallen on the people was that they spoke in tongues. So, because the elephant comes with his trunk, so the inflilling of the Holy Spirit comes with tongues.
 
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