Louisiana classrooms now required by law to display the Ten Commandments

[essentialsaltes]

You are entitled to your opinion; even when it flies in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Most of that is irrelevant glurge. The Liberty Bell was cast in 1752. The fact that a Bible verse is embossed into its metal fabric really has nothing to do with the government of the United States.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Wow! Another strawman? Have you actually been following the conversation?

I have.

Since you are moving the goalposts; I'll go ahead and play your game anyway.

It's the game playing we don't care for.

Lets review the founding document once again.

Your hyphenated rendering doesn't do the document due justice.

They are ellipses allowing the structure of the sentence to be understood by removing all of the modifying clauses.

Here is the full text:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

No invocation of anything but the people, no gods, or divine providence, or any such thing.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

Why are Governments instituted among men?

"to secure these rights"

Which rights?": "unalienable Rights"

:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

What is the source of these "unalienable Rights," of men?

"they are endowed by their Creator"

i never removed those words from the preamble to the Constitution, because most of them aren't there.

Never heard of him before this. I simply read the founding document for comprehension.

He's a pseudohistorian. Your misunderstandings of history sound exactly like the nonsense he peddles.

 

[Pommer]

Wow! Another strawman? Have you actually been following the conversation?

Since you are moving the goalposts; I'll go ahead and play your game anyway.

Lets review the founding document once again.

Your hyphenated rendering doesn't do the document due justice.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

Why are Governments instituted among men?

"to secure these rights"

Which rights?": "unalienable Rights"

:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

What is the source of these "unalienable Rights," of men?

"they are endowed by their Creator"







Never heard of him before this. I simply read the founding document for comprehension.

But by allowing a “death penalty” to exist, we negate the unalienableness of the condemned’s life, which drastically reduces his liberty and puts a dent in his pursuit of happiness.

 

[HARK!]

But by allowing a “death penalty” to exist, we negate the unalienableness of the condemned’s life, which drastically reduces his liberty and puts a dent in his pursuit of happiness.

But it protects the rights of future victims from a vicious predator.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Actual scholars disagree.

Did the Declaration of Independence establish the foundation of the American government?

Answer (1 of 11): All that’s quoted today is the Preamble which sounds stirring, but at the time functioned as a cover letter for the long laundry list of grievances, made as long as possible including even solved issues like the 1763 western lands proclamation. The Americans had already been ar...

www.quora.com

It did not. The Declaration of Independence was written to establish the US as a sovereign state so it could seek aid from France and Spain. While it was a civil war, foreign governments were loathe to get involved. But if the US was an independent country, France and Spain would be more willing to provide and and money. The Declaration worked and France and Spain agreed to supply money and arms to the new country. An excellent book describing why this happened is “Brothers at Arms” by Larrie Ferreiro

Feel free to cite the experts who agree with you.

Are you claiming the National Archives don't have 'actual scholars'?

https://www.congress.gov/founding-documents

America's Founding Documents​

These three documents, known collectively as the Charters of Freedom, have secured the rights of the American people for more than two and a quarter centuries and are considered instrumental to the founding and philosophy of the United States. Declaration of Independence Learn More The...

www.archives.gov

​

 

[essentialsaltes]

Once again, this is equivocation on 'founding'. This dumbest of sidebars is about "The government of the US is in no way based upon..."

The Declaration does not found, establish, institute or constitute a government. It establishes no offices, no method of creating laws or enforcing them. No nuffin.

 

[BCP1928]

And it doesn't really matter, because the Declaration of Independence didn't establish a Christian nation, either.

 

[Belk]

Are you claiming the National Archives don't have 'actual scholars'?

https://www.congress.gov/founding-documents

America's Founding Documents​

These three documents, known collectively as the Charters of Freedom, have secured the rights of the American people for more than two and a quarter centuries and are considered instrumental to the founding and philosophy of the United States. Declaration of Independence Learn More The...

www.archives.gov

​

Quote where they claim the declaration of independence founded the new government.

 

[HARK!]

Quote where they claim the declaration of independence founded the new government.

Why not just go directly to the source?


That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

Note: The following text is a transcription of the Stone Engraving of the parchment Declaration of Independence (the document on display in the Rotunda at the National Archives Museum.) The spelling and punctuation reflects the original.

www.archives.gov

Do you think that the power to throw off the most powerful government in the world at that time, just happened by happenstance, even as the Founders told the world exactly what they were doing?

 

[HARK!]

Most of that is irrelevant glurge

Do you choose to ignore that which is relevant?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Be glad you didn't make a bet on that.....you'd lose.....

https://www.congress.gov/founding-documents

America's Founding Documents

These three documents, known collectively as the Charters of Freedom, have secured the rights of the American people for more than two and a quarter centuries and are considered instrumental to the founding and philosophy of the United States. Declaration of Independence Learn More The...

www.archives.gov

Did you not bother to open this one and read it?

These three documents, known collectively as the Charters of Freedom, have secured the rights of the American people for more than two and a quarter centuries and are considered instrumental to the founding and philosophy of the United States. ​

America's Founding Documents

These three documents, known collectively as the Charters of Freedom, have secured the rights of the American people for more than two and a quarter centuries and are considered instrumental to the founding and philosophy of the United States. Declaration of Independence Learn More The...

www.archives.gov

 

[HARK!]

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new GovernmentWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The states were united before the Constitution was written.

No invocation of anything but the people, no gods, or divine providence, or any such thing.

Again, you need to go back to the founding document to find where the People were given the authority to write a binding Constitution.

The Declaration does not found, establish, institute or constitute a government. It establishes no offices, no method of creating laws or enforcing them.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

Declaration of Independence: A Transcription ​

Republics are not built on defacto law.

 

[HARK!]

And it doesn't really matter, because the Declaration of Independence didn't establish a Christian nation, either.

Whereas in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

If this is good enough for our Founders; it's good enough for me.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

Asserting that you have the right to vote is not the same as voting.
Asserting that you have the right to institute a government is not the same as instituting a government.
We the People exercised that right later with a charter setting out what that government was and how it worked.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Whereas in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

If this is good enough for our Founders; it's good enough for me.

As I pointed out the last time you brought this up:

Only problem is, that statement is misleading. A legislative committee recommended the action, but it was never voted on.

Did Congress Print the First American Bible?

An episode that reveals the source of one of the hardiest myths of “Christian America” writers.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Niels]

As this pertains to government schools, perhaps US classrooms should be required by law to display the Constitution.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

As this pertains to government schools, perhaps US classrooms should be required by law to display the Constitution.

There are certainly some people who need an education on the subject.

 

[Hans Blaster]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The states were united before the Constitution was written.

By the articles of confederation. You haven't altered or countered my position,.

Again, you need to go back to the founding document to find where the People were given the authority to write a binding Constitution.

The are quite explicit that they authorize themselves. It's all there in the Preamble.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Whereas in 1777, Congress, facing a National shortage of `Bibles for our schools, and families, and for the public worship of God in our churches,' announced that they `desired to have a Bible printed under their care & by their encouragement' and therefore ordered 20,000 copies of the Bible to be imported `into the different ports of the States of the Union';

If this is good enough for our Founders; it's good enough for me.

If the US Constitution, Amendment 1 had existed then (and it wouldn't for 12 more years) they would have most definitely been violating it by printing the religious text of a particular religion.

 

[HARK!]

Asserting that you have the right to vote is not the same as voting.
Asserting that you have the right to institute a government is not the same as instituting a government.
We the People exercised that right later with a charter setting out what that government was and how it worked.

The new government was established upon the signing of the document