Trump Tells Christians They Won’t Have to Vote in Future: ‘We’ll Have It Fixed’

[childeye 2]

The first video is of a woman who protested at the capitol, but had no weapon. Why did you post that? I haven't watched the second two videos, on account of the first being irrelevant to what we're discussing.

Can you explain why you posted those, or what they mean in regards to the conversation?

Landon Caeli said:
So you think the Republican Party will back the plan to remove voting rights in America. And you're 100% sure it's not the LW, MSM, blowing things out of proportion, but rather is their actual goal?

@variant said:

So far, the Republican party and Donald Trump have been complaining about an election they clearly lost for 4 years now, they excused a riot that started and sacked the capitol building and a fraudulent attempt at capturing the electoral college.
Then the Supreme Court then says the President has immunity for illegal acts committed as part of the presidents official duties.

Now Trump is openly promising that everything will be "fixed" so that religious voters wont have to turn out to vote in 4 years.


So no, I'm not making stuff up, just, paying attention.

-------------------------------
The videos I provided prove that @variant is speaking about observable facts in the post#100. Facts which your response to her post #100 didn't even acknowledge as either true or false. That's why I said you just seemed to brush them aside.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Landon Caeli said:
So you think the Republican Party will back the plan to remove voting rights in America. And you're 100% sure it's not the LW, MSM, blowing things out of proportion, but rather is their actual goal?

@variant said:

So far, the Republican party and Donald Trump have been complaining about an election they clearly lost for 4 years now, they excused a riot that started and sacked the capitol building and a fraudulent attempt at capturing the electoral college.
Then the Supreme Court then says the President has immunity for illegal acts committed as part of the presidents official duties.

Now Trump is openly promising that everything will be "fixed" so that religious voters wont have to turn out to vote in 4 years.


So no, I'm not making stuff up, just, paying attention.

-------------------------------
The videos I provided prove that @variant is speaking about observable facts in the post#100. Facts which your response to her post #100 didn't even acknowledge as either true or false. That's why I said you just seemed to brush them aside.

Are you sure Trump isn't wanting to end Democracy because he is in collusion with Russian again, and wants to turn us communist?

....There are all kinds "reasons" we can come up with to believe in conspiratorial thinking, even reasons rooted in "facts". But random facts added into a pot and stirred don't always equal a grand conclusion - they're still just random facts.

 

[childeye 2]

Nobody has any evidence of any Trump policy initiative to end Democracy in America... Yet, a soundbyte snippet says it all..?

A soundbite doesn't say it all. But the fact that Trump tried to get the official electoral count rejected should not be brushed aside.

How is that different from snipping a soundbyte clip of Harris saying she supports defunding the police, and then going around saying she wants to end policing in America.

It depends on what "Defund" the police means to the person who says it. Harris didn't even mention the word "defund" in the video. Did you notice that? She didn't even say it was a policy of hers.

...The two fallacies are equal. They're both wrong - that is the point.

The videos I gave show that Trump tried to take away the legal votes of the people and is therefore capable of such devious behavior. The video you showed only shows Kamala saying she will be looking into alternative approaches to decreasing crime in violent neighborhoods separate and apart from increasing the police force presence.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So what happened was that Trump's hardcore supporters didn't want the votes to count. They took action to overturn the votes. So Trump ignored the votes already so he could mean it when he talks about doing it again in that video. You don't seem to understand how serious what they did is.
Note the previous attempt wasn't really organised properly.... but Project 2025 talks about how the conservatives can stay in power permanently. It is very thorough (900 pages long).

I understand what happened...

What I was pointing out was that if "die hard supporter" is "anyone who invaded the capitol that day", then his "die hard supporters" are very few, and clearly not very organized.

Project 2025 is becoming the boogeyman to some people. It's a write-up by The Heritage Foundation (and from the sounds of it, one that Trump hasn't even read yet and doesn't appear to care too much about)

Rather than talk about it as some abstract evil (the same way Republicans talk about "The Green New Deal"), why don't you pick out a few parts of it you'd like to discuss, and we can go from there.

By their very nature, political advocacy groups (at least any worth their salt) are going to have playbooks for how to get power and retain that power leveraging various institutions and padding all 3 branches of government as much as they can.

...so, if the extent of the "concerns" are that they want to appoint likeminded judges and fill the executive branch with allies, then I fail to see how it differs from any other Republican or Democratic playbook

 

[ThatRobGuy]

He isn't just one guy, he has the support of the Republican party and a sympathetic supreme court.

The rulings they've made thus far would indicate that they're only sympathetic to the conservative message on the issue of abortion.

I posted a graph in another thread with all of their rulings since they've been on the bench. For all the pearl clutching about Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, they've actually ruled/dissented with the more progressive judges several times. And John Roberts isn't certainly a "hardline conservative"

2023 term opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Landon Caeli]

My wife and I make family decisions using two different types of reasoning... Her's is fear based, where she'll take a situation and decide on a solution based on avoiding potential harm. My decisions are based on achieving specific goals, and jumping whatever hurdles come my way.

I view the left as largely engulfed in fear, to the point of irrationality. I'm sorry, but I can't think that way. It's not who I am.

 

[childeye 2]

Are you sure Trump isn't wanting to end Democracy because he is in collusion with Russian again, and wants to turn us communist?

I'm only sure Trump tried to deceive people into believing the election was stolen using slander, and that he tried to get Pence to acknowledge fake electors so he could stay in power. I'm only sure he's capable of lying and engaging in lawlessness to undermine democracy to stay in power.

....There are all kinds "reasons" we can come up to believe in conspiratorial thinking, even reasons rooted in "facts". But random facts added into a pot and stirred don't always equal a grand conclusion - they're still just random facts.

It's not complicated. The observable facts will show that either Trump lied about the election being stolen or he didn't, because only one can be true. The observable facts will show that either Trump tried to get Pence to reject the official electoral votes or that he didn't, because only one can be true. And finally, the observable facts will show that either Trump is capable and willing to lie cheat and steal to undermine our system of democracy to stay in power or he isn't, because only one can be true.

 

[rjs330]

In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good you’re not going to have to vote.”

I think this is the key to it all. Context matters. Within Trumps ineloquance he says what he means. He's going to get things fixed so that Christians won't have to vote. Things will be good.

Once again Trump.addresses the concerns of the audience. This is what so many democrats miss. He know his audience and he knows their concerns. The Christian audience isn't wanting or demanding an end to elections and calling for the rule of one man.

They are worried about the direction of the country and all the problems.we are facing. They feel.they really need to get out and vote before it's too late. Teump.is simply stating he's going to fix the issues they are concerned about so they don't have to worry about them anymore.

Which is a really big promise, but we've seen this before from him. Trump doesn’t know how to under promise and over deliver. And to his credit he at least tries to fulfill his promises. He's not always successful, ve he's giving it his best shot.

I do wish though he'd dial it back. But thats not him.

But I think with the context is relatively clear what he's saying. He's not promising a Dictator because we haven't asked for one nor rhe end of the republic, because we didn't ask for rhat either.

 

[variant]

The rulings they've made thus far would indicate that they're only sympathetic to the conservative message on the issue of abortion.

I posted a graph in another thread with all of their rulings since they've been on the bench. For all the pearl clutching about Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, they've actually ruled/dissented with the more progressive judges several times. And John Roberts isn't certainly a "hardline conservative"

2023 term opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So far, they've done what they can to protect him from prosecution for trying to overthrow the government.

Here's Mike Pence on the issue:

So yeah, I already saw him try to do it. The Republican party saw him do it and renominated him. So, they support him. They attack voting rights at every turn. He doesn't see elections he loses as legitimate. He would now have immunity for crimes he commits as official acts. Now he is promising that people wont have to turn out to vote again because he'll have "fixed" things.

So no, he isn't just one man and I am not imagining that he poses a direct threat to the Republic. All you have to do is listen to him.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So far, they've done what they can to protect him from prosecution for trying to overthrow the government.

Here's Mike Pence on the issue:

So yeah, I already saw him try to do it. The Republican party saw him do it and renominated him. So, they support him. They attack voting rights at every turn. He doesn't see elections he loses as legitimate. He would now have immunity for crimes he commits as official acts. Now he is promising that people wont have to turn out to vote again because he'll have "fixed" things.

So no, he isn't just one man and I am not imagining that he poses a direct threat to the Republic. All you have to do is listen to him.

You don't get it.
They do not believe you. They do not believe he tried to overthrow anything. It just sounds like a twisted, made-up, almost silly narrative.

 

[variant]

You don't get it.
They do not believe you. They do not believe he tried to overthrow anything. It just sounds like a twisted, made-up, almost silly narrative.

I quoted the guy who was there. Can't deal with people who don't want to deal with reality.

If facts and reality aren't convincing I don't have other stuff.

 

[wing2000]

So when Kamala Harris says she wants to end all policing in America, we should either take her seriously, or assume she is unfit for office.

Did you just make that up?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Did you just make that up?

She wants to end all policing in America forever... Just like your news sources say Trump wants to end Democracy forever.

 

[KCfromNC]

Are we talking about the one with a couple hundred rednecks and a guy in a buffalo hat?

Plus all the people involved in the fake elector conspiracy, such as Trump's chief of staff. Don't forget about them (the DOJ certainly hasn't).

 

[KCfromNC]

As for Project 2025, that's something some independent group came up with.

JD Vance writes foreword for Project 2025 leader’s upcoming book

Republican VP nominee introduces book by Kevin Roberts, head of rightwing plan that Trump has tried to disavow

www.theguardian.com

The Republican senator and vice-presidential nominee JD Vance has written the foreword to a forthcoming book by the head of Project 2025, the vast rightwing plan for a second Trump administration Democrats say shows the authoritarian threat posed by the GOP – and which Donald Trump has tried to disavow.​

​

One of the many inconvenient facts which has to be ignored to believe the Trump campaign isn't planning something similar to what the candidate was talking about in the OP.

 

[wing2000]

She wants to end all policing in America forever... Just like your news sources say Trump wants to end Democracy forever.

Youtuber?

Cite Camela Harris statinng this.....else it never happened.

This is what you claimed she said:

"So when Kamala Harris says she wants to end all policing in America,...."

 

[Landon Caeli]

Youtuber?

Cite Camela Harris statinng this.....else it never happened.

This is what you claimed she said:

"So when Kamala Harris says she wants to end all policing in America,...."

Tell you what... You challenge post #2 first, and then I'll soften up my stance after. Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander. It goes both ways.

(The same post #2 you actually agreed with BTW)

...Either that, or you can explain where Trump says he wants to "end that whole democracy and peaceful fair transfer of power every 4 years" since you agreed to that statement.

 

[Merrill]

The above Looks like a misrepresentation of her policies by an opponent. Take a look at these sources.

What does Kamala Harris believe? Where the candidate stands on 9 issues

Here's where California Senator and 2020 White House candidate Kamala Harris stands on key issues.

www.pbs.org

Promises Kamala Harris has made so far in her campaign

In policy proposals, speeches and rallies, Vice President Kamala Harris has voiced support for continuing many of President Joe Biden's measures, but Harris is expected to put her own stamp and style on matters ranging from abortion to the economy to immigration.

www.cnn.com

The above Looks like a misrepresentation of her policies by an opponent. Take a look at these sources.

What does Kamala Harris believe? Where the candidate stands on 9 issues

Here's where California Senator and 2020 White House candidate Kamala Harris stands on key issues.

www.pbs.org

Promises Kamala Harris has made so far in her campaign

In policy proposals, speeches and rallies, Vice President Kamala Harris has voiced support for continuing many of President Joe Biden's measures, but Harris is expected to put her own stamp and style on matters ranging from abortion to the economy to immigration.

www.cnn.com

OK, let's look at the links you provided and some others to get the details

1. Abortion: according to CNN, Harris supports unlimited access to abortion, no restrictions, and an end to the Hyde Amendment, which would allow for publicly funded abortions. That is exactly what I said above

2. Defunding police: On a radio show in 2020, Harris said " in the June radio interview the movement “rightly” called out the amount of money spent on police departments instead of community services such as education, housing, and healthcare, emphasizing that more police did not equate to more public safety." In another interview (Good Morning America) "applauded Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti’s decision to slash police funding by $150 million"

A Democratic priority back in the 1990s, launched by Clinton, was to put MORE police on the streets and increase funding--and it worked. Harris said she wants to do the opposite: the defund the police

3. Equity and socialism: Harris has repeatedly used the term "equity" and other socialist concepts, like "everyone needs to end up in the same place"

4. Ukraine: as CNN points out, Harris will continue the Biden police: "we will work to secure critical weapons and resources that Ukraine so badly needs." --so she will continue subsidizing the military-industrial complex with taxpayer money

5. SCOTUS measures: Harris supports Biden's initiatives to impose term limits (18 years) on judges, subject them to greater ethics policies, etc. But Harris is also open to packing the court:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/443841-harris-open-to-adding-seats-to-supreme-court/

 

[rjs330]

JD Vance writes foreword for Project 2025 leader’s upcoming book

Republican VP nominee introduces book by Kevin Roberts, head of rightwing plan that Trump has tried to disavow

www.theguardian.com

The Republican senator and vice-presidential nominee JD Vance has written the foreword to a forthcoming book by the head of Project 2025, the vast rightwing plan for a second Trump administration Democrats say shows the authoritarian threat posed by the GOP – and which Donald Trump has tried to disavow.​

​

One of the many inconvenient facts which has to be ignored to believe the Trump campaign isn't planning something similar to what the candidate was talking about in the OP.

I know a lot of the left hate the Heritage Foundation and project 2025. They treat it like it's the devil himself. Vance wrote the the forward to a book. Not project 2025. Now I haven't read the book, I don't know what it says, but tve fact is the Heriage Foundation is an independent group. Neither Trump nor Vance were involved in writing project 2025. Project 2025 is a boogy man for the left. The monster under the bed.

The left came up with the 1619 project and defended it with server. They even worked to implement it in the educational system.

I've been reading the plan and so far I like it. It's a good plan to reinstitute Constitution and Law, and common sense back into government. I haven't read super far yet, so I may run I to things I disagree with.

But as humans we will not agree on everything no matter who we are. But so far I haven't read anything that is dangerous or earth shattering.

It remains in the realm of a boogie man for the left at this point. Maybe I'll change my mind as I read some more. I guess we'll see.

Do you have the book? Have you read it?

 

[KCfromNC]

I know a lot of the left hate the Heritage Foundation and project 2025. They treat it like it's the devil himself. Vance wrote the the forward to a book. Not project 2025.

Let me get this straight. Trump's VP pick wrote a foreward to a book by the head of project 2025. And pointing out that fact is "hate"?

Reads a lot like an attempt to shoot the messenger rather than address the issues that causes to the claims that Trump isn't involved with that project.

But I'm sure there's more fact-based substance to the reply than that.

Now I haven't read the book, I don't know what it says

Oh. Never mind.