ATF ID'd Buyer of Crooks' Gun in 30 Minutes; Process Usually Takes 8 Days

[iluvatar5150]

Why? Because the gun lobby got laws into place that prevent the ATF from creating a searchable digital database, forcing them to manually sift through paper records (or photo scans of paper records).

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/17/politics/how-atf-identified-trump-rally-shooter/index.html

Some back story and details:

The ATF's Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained

The trace starts with a call or fax to the National Trace Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia. A police department has recovered a gun at a crime scene that was bought at a dealer that has since gone out of business. The inquiring officer turns to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and...

www.thetrace.org

I wonder how the folks opposed to government waste and inefficiency feel about this.

 

[HTacianas]

Why? Because the gun lobby got laws into place that prevent the ATF from creating a searchable digital database, forcing them to manually sift through paper records (or photo scans of paper records).

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/17/politics/how-atf-identified-trump-rally-shooter/index.html

Some back story and details:

The ATF's Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained

The trace starts with a call or fax to the National Trace Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia. A police department has recovered a gun at a crime scene that was bought at a dealer that has since gone out of business. The inquiring officer turns to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and...

www.thetrace.org

I wonder how the folks opposed to government waste and inefficiency feel about this.

I don't see why it is imperative to find out where a gun was bought during the investigation of a crime. Especially this one. A man with a gun shot at someone. There's no pressing need to know where it came from.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I don't see why it is imperative to find out where a gun was bought during the investigation of a crime. Especially this one. A man with a gun shot at someone. There's no pressing need to know where it came from.

In cases where the shooter got away, quickly searching the gun records could conceivably help find them more quickly.

In the case of an assassination attempt, it might prove useful to find potential co-conspirators.

Following the chain of ownership could help identify elements of trafficking rings.

Generally, it just makes the process of police work faster and more efficient. This system is gumming up the works just to appease some paranoid gun lovers.

 

[Laodicean60]

I wonder how the folks opposed to government waste and inefficiency feel about this.

I don't like waste and inefficiency. Because of the rhetoric from the left about guns and the rights paranoia data search will not be possible. But they should allow serial number searches and it might speed up investigations.

 

[Pommer]

Why? Because the gun lobby got laws into place that prevent the ATF from creating a searchable digital database, forcing them to manually sift through paper records (or photo scans of paper records).

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/17/politics/how-atf-identified-trump-rally-shooter/index.html

Some back story and details:

The ATF's Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained

The trace starts with a call or fax to the National Trace Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia. A police department has recovered a gun at a crime scene that was bought at a dealer that has since gone out of business. The inquiring officer turns to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and...

www.thetrace.org

I wonder how the folks opposed to government waste and inefficiency feel about this.

Mmmmmeh?
Yes, usually the gun that had been fired in an attempt to harm a Presidential Candidate, is going to “jump to the front of the line”.
This is a normal occurrence of the extraordinary getting “special treatment” (which in itself is one of the hallmarks of something being part of something “extraordinary”, in a somewhat circular fashion, I’ll grant), “the system” can operate on Turbo, but as I learned from “Galaxy Quest”, turbo’s are only meant to be used in short bursts, otherwise you might crack one’s beryllium sphere!.

It takes eight days ordinarily, because no one’s going to get fired for taking eight days over a gun used in a hold-up.

 

[Pommer]

I don't like waste and inefficiency. Because of the rhetoric from the left about guns and the rights paranoia data search will not be possible. But they should allow serial number searches and it might speed up investigations.

Everything is “in place” should the politicians decide that maybe we should do something about the guns themselves, people have the right to bear arms, but do arms have a ”right” to be manufactured?

We import guns all of the time, just cease domestic production, most nations would love to sell us guns, and if that puts the price of guns “too high” for many people, they still enjoy the ”right” to bear them when they can afford them.

Oh, it might not ever happen but when it does, (2038?), this is how it will begin.

 

[Laodicean60]

Oh, it might not ever happen but when it does, (2038?), this is how it will begin.

I am more inclined to believe you because of my worldview. Either stop manufacturing or raise insurance costs. It's not the guns it's the mind behind it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Generally, it just makes the process of police work faster and more efficient. This system is gumming up the works just to appease some paranoid gun lovers.

I think the reasons that make people slightly uneasy about an easily searchable database aren't confined to just the conspiratorial ideas about "the gubmint tyranny!!".

I think people also have concerns about what happens if that data somehow fell into the wrong hands via a leak or a hack, or got released by a newspaper (like what happened in NY where they have a registry, and a local news publication used a FOIA request to obtain that information, and then published an article with an interactive map called "The Gun Owner Next door" where you could basically scroll around neighborhoods and see which houses have firearms which creates a couple of legitimate concerns for the gun owners themselves both in the form of political backlash, and in the form of their house become a bigger target for robbery when they're not home)

 

[BPPLEE]

Everything is “in place” should the politicians decide that maybe we should do something about the guns themselves, people have the right to bear arms, but do arms have a ”right” to be manufactured?

We import guns all of the time, just cease domestic production, most nations would love to sell us guns, and if that puts the price of guns “too high” for many people, they still enjoy the ”right” to bear them when they can afford them.

Oh, it might not ever happen but when it does, (2038?), this is how it will begin.

Just make bullets cost $1,000 each. Then no one would get hit by a stray bullet. There would be no drive bys. “I’m gonna shoot your butt when I get the money!”

 

[BCP1928]

I don't see why it is imperative to find out where a gun was bought during the investigation of a crime. Especially this one. A man with a gun shot at someone. There's no pressing need to know where it came from.

If he commits a crime with it then whoever provided him with the gun may be an accessory.

 

[BCP1928]

I think the reasons that make people slightly uneasy about an easily searchable database aren't confined to just the conspiratorial ideas about "the gubmint tyranny!!".

I think people also have concerns about what happens if that data somehow fell into the wrong hands via a leak or a hack, or got released by a newspaper (like what happened in NY where they have a registry, and a local news publication used a FOIA request to obtain that information, and then published an article with an interactive map called "The Gun Owner Next door" where you could basically scroll around neighborhoods and see which houses have firearms which creates a couple of legitimate concerns for the gun owners themselves both in the form of political backlash, and in the form of their house become a bigger target for robbery when they're not home)

Then let the NRA keep the database. Once upon a time they were a useful organization. Maybe they could become one again.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Then let the NRA keep the database. Once upon a time they were a useful organization. Maybe they could become one again.

Yeah, I don't know that they'd be a trustworthy "keeper of the list either".

We see mega corporations (even ones whose line of business is security products) getting hacked. Like when Equifax got breached.


The list of a "here's which houses have guns in them" falling into the wrong hands presents a number of safety concerns.

 

[BCP1928]

Yeah, I don't know that they'd be a trustworthy "keeper of the list either".

We see mega corporations (even ones whose line of business is security products) getting hacked. Like when Equifax got breached.


The list of a "here's which houses have guns in them" falling into the wrong hands presents a number of safety concerns.

Right. I need my guns to protect myself against the government, but if the government knows I have them they'll come and take them away and I won't be able to protect myself against the government any more.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Right. I need my guns to protect myself against the government, but if the government knows I have them they'll come and take them away and I won't be able to protect myself against the government any more.

As I noted before, that's not the primary concern for a lot of people...

The concern is that if the bad guys know there's potentially some expensive guns at "123 Main St." via an indexed easily searchable data dump, that's gonna be the first house they try to hit when they know the owners are away from home or on vacation.

I wouldn't want a "here's the houses in this neighborhood that have expensive guns inside" database published for the same reason I wouldn't want a "here's all the people on the block who made an expensive jewelry purchase in the last 12 months" list getting published.

 

[iluvatar5150]

As I noted before, that's not the primary concern for a lot of people...

The concern is that if the bad guys know there's potentially some expensive guns at "123 Main St." via an indexed easily searchable data dump, that's gonna be the first house they try to hit when they know the owners are away from home or on vacation.

I wouldn't want a "here's the houses in this neighborhood that have expensive guns inside" database published for the same reason I wouldn't want a "here's all the people on the block who made an expensive jewelry purchase in the last 12 months" list getting published.

And yet cars are typically an order of magnitude more expensive than either guns or jewelry, but get parked in plain sight all the time. Yes, they get stolen, but far less often than they normally would because they're all uniquely identifiable and all have to be registered in order to use.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why? Because the gun lobby got laws into place that prevent the ATF from creating a searchable digital database, forcing them to manually sift through paper records (or photo scans of paper records).

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/17/politics/how-atf-identified-trump-rally-shooter/index.html

Some back story and details:

The ATF's Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained

The trace starts with a call or fax to the National Trace Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia. A police department has recovered a gun at a crime scene that was bought at a dealer that has since gone out of business. The inquiring officer turns to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and...

www.thetrace.org

I wonder how the folks opposed to government waste and inefficiency feel about this.

That's pretty old news...it's been this way for awhile now.

I thought the father already admitted to buying the son the gun?

 

[rambot]

Just make bullets cost $1,000 each. Then no one would get hit by a stray bullet. There would be no drive bys. “I’m gonna shoot your butt when I get the money!”

There is an Australian comedian wrote that joke. Jim jeffries was his name I think

 

[Dave G.]

I don't see why it is imperative to find out where a gun was bought during the investigation of a crime. Especially this one. A man with a gun shot at someone. There's no pressing need to know where it came from.

You must be kidding !! Knowing who bought the gun can lead back to any kind of group who could be behind all this. It's one way to help conclude if the gunman worked alone or not.

I personally am of the suspicion that the 20 year old kid was not a one man show. I'd like that idea confirmed or dismissed. And we can move on. Because if there is more than the obvious involved, we have a whole different condition afoot.

This isn't about pro or con Trump, it's about getting to the bottom of what went down that day. Truth needs to be revealed.

 

[BCP1928]

As I noted before, that's not the primary concern for a lot of people...

The concern is that if the bad guys know there's potentially some expensive guns at "123 Main St." via an indexed easily searchable data dump, that's gonna be the first house they try to hit when they know the owners are away from home or on vacation.

I wouldn't want a "here's the houses in this neighborhood that have expensive guns inside" database published for the same reason I wouldn't want a "here's all the people on the block who made an expensive jewelry purchase in the last 12 months" list getting published.

I think the more usual version of that argument is that criminals could hack the database to find out which households didn't have a gun so it would be safe to attack.

But it would be interesting to look at burglary statistics for NYC to see if there was an uptick in burglaries of home protection handguns after the data leak.

 

[BPPLEE]

There is an Australian comedian wrote that joke. Jim jeffries was his name I think

Chris Rock