On Whether or Not Biden Can Win the Fall Election

[Stephen3141]

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/10/democrats-split-strategy-biden-2024-election

I'm a believer in logic, and trying to demonstrate why a position held is compatible
with Christianity, or not compatible with Christianity.

This topic of the coming Fall election in contentious. But, I think that Christians
should consider some key points of the arguments.

The Democratic Party seem to be affirming...

1 Biden is old, but still competent
2 Biden did poorly in the last debate with Trump, but is still the "best"
Democratic candidate to beat Trump
3 Trump needs to be defeated, because Trump (and his 2025 Plan)
detail how the federal government can be transformed into a branch of the
Republican Party, led by Trump
4 Biden is behind in polling to Trump, but Biden can rebound
5 The strategy of the Democrats, should be the same as in past elections.

I would instead suggest that this election is very different.

It should be a referendum of whether America wants to keep the fair
rule of law that it currently has, and an independent federal government,
or whether Trump should make radical changes to "fix" what he thinks
is wrong in the current system. It will also be a referendum on Epistemology --
how Americans are to evaluate what is TRUE, and what is FALSE, and
what sound and relevant EVIDENCE is.

In the last debate with Biden, Trump repeated about 27 lies. (See my earlier
reference to fact-checking on this debate, from multiple news outlets.)

Trump has repeatedly spread the lie that the last presidential election
was stolen from him, although Trump-the-billionaire with almost unlimited
resources, has not been able to find ANY evidence of this "steal". And the
24 law suits that Trump filed to try to overturn the election, have ALL been
rejected by judges, for lack of sound and relevant evidence. (This is a question
involving what Trump thinks our shared reality is, and what Trump thinks "evidence"
is). That is, this is a BIG question of Epistemology.

Trump's continual repeating of lies, in the form of Deep State conspiracy theories,
is incompatible with the moral-ethical model that Christianity requires.
Specifically, "You shall not bear false witness" about our shared reality.

But what about the Democratic Party's current arguments, about what
is important?

Argument: the Democratic Party should represent registered Democrats.
I think that this is wrong, as this election is unique, and about a choice
to keep the fair rule of law in America, or dismantle it into a political
arm-wrestling contest.
Actually: This election should involve ALL of the moderate Middle of America,
regardless of how these citizens are registered as Democrat or Republican,
or Independent.

Argument: Joe Biden should bear down on the (tribal) Democratic Party
slogans, even if they alienate or offend many potential crossover voters.
Actually: The current polls of ALL American voters, say that Joe Biden is
behind Donald Trump, and will lose the Fall election.
Actually: The more that Biden insults potential crossover voters, the more
he will FALL in the polls, against Trump.

Argument: The only relevant concern, is how Biden looked at the last
candidate debate.
Actually: Almost all the potential crossover Republican voters, are looking for Biden to
attack Trump's lawlessness, and proven pension to break the law in America. Many
prefer voting for a younger Democratic candidate than Biden. But the first concern
is that the Democratic ticket will value the votes of ALL the moderate Middle in
America, to save the republic.
---------- ----------

What the Democratic Party needs to do, is...

1 Stop insulting and alienating potential Republican crossover voters
(by being pro-abortion, and representing abortion as a human right).
This includes stop identifying the Evangelicals, with the anti-intellectual
Protestant Fundamentalists.

2 Try to win back moderate religious voters (including the Evangelicals),
and conservative Catholic Christians. Being pro-abortion, means that Biden
is NOT a Catholic Christian. Stop trying to sell this BS.
Donald Trump is NOT a Protestant Christian.

3 Start to consider topics that are relevant to ALL the moderate Middle in
America, as the relevant topics in this election.

4 Stop all the knee-jerk reactions to decisions by the Supreme Court,
as if all the decisions you don't like, must be due to political corruption.
This is what Donald Trump does.
Stop trying to act like Donald Trump.
This undercuts the fair rule of law in America.

5 Stop arguing irrelevant statements that "Trump was behind in the polls,
yet in 2016 he won". Trump won, because Hillary Clinton insulted and
mocked the moderate religious groups in America, driving the Evangelicals
into the arms of Trump.

Using the real dynamic of this argument, Trump is AHEAD in the polls now.
And he will be even MORE AHEAD in the polls, if Biden continues to offend and
insult conservative religious people in America, just as Hillary Clinton did in
2016.

6 Choose candidates that the moderate Middle in America can vote for,
AND who are younger than Biden. If this is truly a unique referendum on
the fair rule of law in America, then pick candidates who uniquely reflect
that referendum. Regardless of what Biden says about this election being
unique, HE IS ACTING AS IF IT IS BUSINESS AS USUAL.

Biden really does not understand what the important topics are, in this
election.

It would be better if the Democratic Party shed its far left voters, and gained
20-30% of the moderate Middle Republican voters. If this election is REALLY a referendum on
the fair rule of law in America, then run a Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney ticket.

My guess is that the Democratic Party does not have the raw guts, to pick
candidates that could hand Trump a drubbing.

My guess is that the Democratic Party will not admit that it was responsible
for alienating and losing most Evangelicals in the 2016 election, and driving
them to vote for Trump.

My guess is that the Democratic delegates don't understand what their party
needs to really win.

My guess is that the Clintons, and Obamas, and Bidens, don't even
understand what I am saying.

 

[chevyontheriver]

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/10/democrats-split-strategy-biden-2024-election

I'm a believer in logic, and trying to demonstrate why a position held is compatible
with Christianity, or not compatible with Christianity.

This topic of the coming Fall election in contentious. But, I think that Christians
should consider some key points of the arguments.

The Democratic Party seem to be affirming...

1 Biden is old, but still competent
2 Biden did poorly in the last debate with Trump, but is still the "best"
Democratic candidate to beat Trump
3 Trump needs to be defeated, because Trump (and his 2025 Plan)
detail how the federal government can be transformed into a branch of the
Republican Party, led by Trump
4 Biden is behind in polling to Trump, but Biden can rebound
5 The strategy of the Democrats, should be the same as in past elections.

I would instead suggest that this election is very different.

It should be a referendum of whether America wants to keep the fair
rule of law that it currently has, and an independent federal government,
or whether Trump should make radical changes to "fix" what he thinks
is wrong in the current system. It will also be a referendum on Epistemology --
how Americans are to evaluate what is TRUE, and what is FALSE, and
what sound and relevant EVIDENCE is.

In the last debate with Biden, Trump repeated about 27 lies. (See my earlier
reference to fact-checking on this debate, from multiple news outlets.)

Trump has repeatedly spread the lie that the last presidential election
was stolen from him, although Trump-the-billionaire with almost unlimited
resources, has not been able to find ANY evidence of this "steal". And the
24 law suits that Trump filed to try to overturn the election, have ALL been
rejected by judges, for lack of sound and relevant evidence. (This is a question
involving what Trump thinks our shared reality is, and what Trump thinks "evidence"
is). That is, this is a BIG question of Epistemology.

Trump's continual repeating of lies, in the form of Deep State conspiracy theories,
is incompatible with the moral-ethical model that Christianity requires.
Specifically, "You shall not bear false witness" about our shared reality.

But what about the Democratic Party's current arguments, about what
is important?

Argument: the Democratic Party should represent registered Democrats.
I think that this is wrong, as this election is unique, and about a choice
to keep the fair rule of law in America, or dismantle it into a political
arm-wrestling contest.
Actually: This election should involve ALL of the moderate Middle of America,
regardless of how these citizens are registered as Democrat or Republican,
or Independent.

Argument: Joe Biden should bear down on the (tribal) Democratic Party
slogans, even if they alienate or offend many potential crossover voters.
Actually: The current polls of ALL American voters, say that Joe Biden is
behind Donald Trump, and will lose the Fall election.
Actually: The more that Biden insults potential crossover voters, the more
he will FALL in the polls, against Trump.

Argument: The only relevant concern, is how Biden looked at the last
candidate debate.
Actually: Almost all the potential crossover Republican voters, are looking for Biden to
attack Trump's lawlessness, and proven pension to break the law in America. Many
prefer voting for a younger Democratic candidate than Biden. But the first concern
is that the Democratic ticket will value the votes of ALL the moderate Middle in
America, to save the republic.
---------- ----------

What the Democratic Party needs to do, is...

1 Stop insulting and alienating potential Republican crossover voters
(by being pro-abortion, and representing abortion as a human right).
This includes stop identifying the Evangelicals, with the anti-intellectual
Protestant Fundamentalists.

2 Try to win back moderate religious voters (including the Evangelicals),
and conservative Catholic Christians. Being pro-abortion, means that Biden
is NOT a Catholic Christian. Stop trying to sell this BS.
Donald Trump is NOT a Protestant Christian.

3 Start to consider topics that are relevant to ALL the moderate Middle in
America, as the relevant topics in this election.

4 Stop all the knee-jerk reactions to decisions by the Supreme Court,
as if all the decisions you don't like, must be due to political corruption.
This is what Donald Trump does.
Stop trying to act like Donald Trump.
This undercuts the fair rule of law in America.

5 Stop arguing irrelevant statements that "Trump was behind in the polls,
yet in 2016 he won". Trump won, because Hillary Clinton insulted and
mocked the moderate religious groups in America, driving the Evangelicals
into the arms of Trump.

Using the real dynamic of this argument, Trump is AHEAD in the polls now.
And he will be even MORE AHEAD in the polls, if Biden continues to offend and
insult conservative religious people in America, just as Hillary Clinton did in
2016.

6 Choose candidates that the moderate Middle in America can vote for,
AND who are younger than Biden. If this is truly a unique referendum on
the fair rule of law in America, then pick candidates who uniquely reflect
that referendum. Regardless of what Biden says about this election being
unique, HE IS ACTING AS IF IT IS BUSINESS AS USUAL.

Biden really does not understand what the important topics are, in this
election.

It would be better if the Democratic Party shed its far left voters, and gained
20-30% of the moderate Middle Republican voters. If this election is REALLY a referendum on
the fair rule of law in America, then run a Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney ticket.

My guess is that the Democratic Party does not have the raw guts, to pick
candidates that could hand Trump a drubbing.

My guess is that the Democratic Party will not admit that it was responsible
for alienating and losing most Evangelicals in the 2016 election, and driving
them to vote for Trump.

My guess is that the Democratic delegates don't understand what their party
needs to really win.

My guess is that the Clintons, and Obamas, and Bidens, don't even
understand what I am saying.

You ask the Democrats to make huge changes in less than six months. It can't happen in less than decades. What we are seeing now in the Democratic Party is the result of McGovernism. It showed itself in the 1968 Chicago convention. It is longstanding. Only a bit more extreme now.

Point is we need a different political party to get the attitudinal changes you want to see. The Democrats cannot change. At least not this year. This is whether Joe Biden is replaced or not replaced. The Republicans are similarly unable to change, although in four years I think they have a chance of discarding some of Trumpism, which Party insiders never particularly liked anyhow.

Lets say there was a different political party that would satisfy you and not alienate on purpose evangelicals and faithful Catholics and be somewhat centrist. Most people are sold out to their present political party and would vote only for their political party no matter what. They won't change. And the parties will change only ever so glacially slowly. So we have Biden vs Trump. You can vote for that other party but it's going to be 45% Biden and 48% Trump and 7% everybody else. People love to hate their political opponents.

What I'd like to see is 30% Biden, 33% Trump, and 35% Sonski, and everybody else 2%. But I'm delusional that way. We get the government we deserve.

Here's where everybody piles on about how I would be throwing away my vote not to vote for Biden or Trump. I think a vote for either Biden or Trump is a thrown away vote.

 

[Ace777]

Biden is old, but still competent

Nancy Pelosi does not seem to say that. She fells that Biden is not capable of being president. The party seems to be divided against itself. Now even more amazing is that Clinton and Obama are coming out in support of Trump.

Trump should make radical changes to "fix"

Fix is not always the same as restore.

 

[Roman57]

Now even more amazing is that Clinton and Obama are coming out in support of Trump.

Can you tell me what they said?

 

[Ace777]

Can you tell me what they said?

Former President Bill Clinton:

“Violence has no place in America, especially in our political process. Hillary and I are thankful that President Trump is safe, heartbroken for all those affected by the attack at today’s rally in Pennsylvania, and grateful for the swift action of the U.S. Secret Service.

Former President Barack Obama:


“There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy. Although we don’t yet know exactly what happened, we should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics. Michelle and I are wishing him a quick recovery.”

Shooting at Trump rally: Reaction after apparent assassination attempt from Biden, Obama, Clinton, Cheney, more

"There’s no place in America for this kind of violence," Biden said. "It’s sick. It’s sick."

www.nj.com

 

[Roman57]

Former President Bill Clinton:

“Violence has no place in America, especially in our political process. Hillary and I are thankful that President Trump is safe, heartbroken for all those affected by the attack at today’s rally in Pennsylvania, and grateful for the swift action of the U.S. Secret Service.

Former President Barack Obama:


“There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy. Although we don’t yet know exactly what happened, we should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics. Michelle and I are wishing him a quick recovery.”

Shooting at Trump rally: Reaction after apparent assassination attempt from Biden, Obama, Clinton, Cheney, more

"There’s no place in America for this kind of violence," Biden said. "It’s sick. It’s sick."

www.nj.com

That has nothing to do with supporting his candidacy. This is simply saying that murder is not acceptable, regardless of whom you are trying to murder. Which is a common sense thing to say.

If anything, they might have used it as a political opportunity to promote Democrat party, by showing that Democrats are even handed and can be supportive of their opponent when its the right thing to do.

 

[Ace777]

That has nothing to do with supporting his candidacy.

Believe what you want, you are entitled to your opinion even if I do not agree with you.

Democrats are even handed and can be supportive of their opponent when its the right thing to do.

How is that different from what I am saying?

 

[Roman57]

How is that different from what I am saying?

Its different because they are not trying to help out Trump, they are trying to help out themselves by showing how good they are. Politically they are sacrificing nothing since they didn't say they agree with Trump on any single issue, yet socially they shown themselves in a good light by saying they can be honest enough to say something that sounds supportive of their opponents. In fact they didn't even say anything nice about him as a person. They literally only said murder is wrong. Yet still made themselves look good.

 

[Ace777]

Its different because they are not trying to help out Trump,

I still see it as an endorsement. I think Hillary and Biden are ready to retire and would have no issue with giving the country to Trump. What amazes me is that Pelosi seems to be undermining Biden. She has been anti Trump from the beginning. Although maybe they are just making up stories about her. There is always the issue of fake news. Can not believe much of anything in that arena. Although the traditional belief is that you cannot believe political promises.

 

[Roman57]

I still see it as an endorsement.

I don't see how not wanting someone killed would be the same as wanting that person to be a president.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I think there is a VERY good chance Biden will be dead by November. Frankly, I suspect he's being kept upright via all sorts of medical "magic" that is not normally available to the general public, but even then, people in his condition are not long for this world.

But then, when he was elected I said that his condition would require him to leave office in the first year. And in a sane world, he would have. But we're not in a sane world now, as the first half of the OP shows. So for me, this is fun theater, but the only way Biden wins is if he's able to stay alive and Trump dies, which is highly unlikely. I'm still dumbfounded that he's even in the white house. For me, the REAL issue is not whether or not he will win, but that the US is currently leaderless, and all the bad players in the world know it. And don't be too calm about their lack of action. Their window of opportunity doesn't close until he is out of office, so there is no hurry on their part.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think there is a VERY good chance Biden will be dead by November. Frankly, I suspect he's being kept upright via all sorts of medical "magic" that is not normally available to the general public, but even then, people in his condition are not long for this world.

Don't discount the AI Biden. Looking a tiny bit more youthful every month, awake, with it, cogent, on top of everything. We have the technology.

But then, when he was elected I said that his condition would require him to leave office in the first year. And in a sane world, he would have. But we're not in a sane world now, as the first half of the OP shows. So for me, this is fun theater, but the only way Biden wins is if he's able to stay alive and Trump dies, which is highly unlikely. I'm still dumbfounded that he's even in the white house. For me, the REAL issue is not whether or not he will win, but that the US is currently leaderless, and all the bad players in the world know it. And don't be too calm about their lack of action. Their window of opportunity doesn't close until he is out of office, so there is no hurry on their part.

We aren't 'leaderless'. We just don't know who the string-puller leaders are. We could guess but who knows who is leading this country right now.

 

[Merrill]

Former President Bill Clinton:

“Violence has no place in America, especially in our political process. Hillary and I are thankful that President Trump is safe, heartbroken for all those affected by the attack at today’s rally in Pennsylvania, and grateful for the swift action of the U.S. Secret Service.

Former President Barack Obama:


“There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy. Although we don’t yet know exactly what happened, we should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics. Michelle and I are wishing him a quick recovery.”

Shooting at Trump rally: Reaction after apparent assassination attempt from Biden, Obama, Clinton, Cheney, more

"There’s no place in America for this kind of violence," Biden said. "It’s sick. It’s sick."

www.nj.com

Neither Bill Clinton nor Barak Obama has engaged in the kind of extremist rhetoric other Democrats have engaged in (for the most part)

and unlike Biden, they both have some class

I don't remember Bill Clinton ever calling Trump Hitler, demanding people do "something to stop him", declaring that a lost election will mean "the end of Democracy and our Republic", etc.

 

[Merrill]

I think there is a VERY good chance Biden will be dead by November. Frankly, I suspect he's being kept upright via all sorts of medical "magic" that is not normally available to the general public, but even then, people in his condition are not long for this world.

But then, when he was elected I said that his condition would require him to leave office in the first year. And in a sane world, he would have. But we're not in a sane world now, as the first half of the OP shows. So for me, this is fun theater, but the only way Biden wins is if he's able to stay alive and Trump dies, which is highly unlikely. I'm still dumbfounded that he's even in the white house. For me, the REAL issue is not whether or not he will win, but that the US is currently leaderless, and all the bad players in the world know it. And don't be too calm about their lack of action. Their window of opportunity doesn't close until he is out of office, so there is no hurry on their part.

My father died of vascular dementia in 2018

ALL the symptoms Biden is showing are consistent to what I saw with my father. It looks exactly the same

1. Glassy-eyed look
2. Mumbled words, incoherence
3. Falling down
4. Anger issues, lashing out
5. Open-mouthed, "frozen" gaze

it is like I am watching a repeat of a movie

my father started showing serious symptoms in April 2018, and by December he was dead. The decline was dramatic in the last 2-3 months.

Vascular dementia is diagnosed through MRI/CT scans, and full neurological workups. Biden refuses to have any of this done, because he knows he will fail these exams

so I agree 100% that he could die within 9 months.

it is totally irresponsible for the Democrats to put the country in this situation, and the political fallout is going to be epic if Biden dies and it is revealed that many people knew he was very sick, going back 1-2 years, and lied to the public about it

 

[Reasonably Sane]

My father died of vascular dementia in 2018

ALL the symptoms Biden is showing are consistent to what I saw with my father. It looks exactly the same

1. Glassy-eyed look
2. Mumbled words, incoherence
3. Falling down
4. Anger issues, lashing out
5. Open-mouthed, "frozen" gaze

it is like I am watching a repeat of a movie

my father started showing serious symptoms in April 2018, and by December he was dead. The decline was dramatic in the last 2-3 months.

Vascular dementia is diagnosed through MRI/CT scans, and full neurological workups. Biden refuses to have any of this done, because he knows he will fail these exams

so I agree 100% that he could die within 9 months.

it is totally irresponsible for the Democrats to put the country in this situation, and the political fallout is going to be epic if Biden dies and it is revealed that many people knew he was very sick, going back 1-2 years, and lied to the public about it

First, sorry about your dad. Seriously.

Second, I think everybody knows a vote for Biden is really a vote for his running mate. I think that is also a first.

 

[expos4ever]

Now even more amazing is that Clinton and Obama are coming out in support of Trump.

What is so amazing? Does it really surprising that Clinton and Obama are horrified about the attack on Trump?

Your wording is a little ambiguous - if it were not so absurd to suggest this, what you say here could be taken to mean that Clinton and Obama support Trumps bid for the presidency.

Which would, of course, be a ridiculous claim.

 

[Ace777]

I don't remember Bill Clinton ever calling Trump Hitler

That was the Obama Hillary crowd that did that. Bill did campaign for Hillary but he was very tame.

 

[Ace777]

could be taken to mean that Clinton and Obama support Trumps bid for the presidency.

There is FOR, there is AGAINST and there is NEUTRAL. IF you want to deny that they are helping Trump then go for neutral. It just looks like Hillary and Obama are having serious concerns about Biden. Nancy is the only one that is openly vocal. Clearly the democratic party is divided against itself and a house divided can not stand. Of course they use double talk, so you have to interpret that. She says she FULLY supports his choice or decision NOT TO RUN. We all know Biden has already decided to run so why is she coming out with this rhetoric at this stage of the game.

 

[expos4ever]

There is FOR, there is AGAINST and there is NEUTRAL. IF you want to deny that they are helping Trump then go for neutral. It just looks like Hillary and Obama are having serious concerns about Biden. Nancy is the only one that is openly vocal. Clearly the democratic party is divided against itself and a house divided can not stand. Of course they use double talk, so you have to interpret that. She says she FULLY supports his choice or decision NOT TO RUN. We all know Biden has already decided to run so why is she coming out with this rhetoric at this stage of the game.

I have no problem with any of this. My only point was that for anyone to imply that Obama and Clinton actually support Trump's presidential bid is the very definition of silliness.

I suspect they share my view: that even if he is in in a state of complete catatonia, Mr Biden is the better option than Mr. Trump

 

[Ace777]

I have no problem with any of this. My only point was that for anyone to imply that Obama and Clinton actually support Trump's presidential bid is the very definition of silliness.

As I said the democrat's are divided against themselves. WE still have a two party system. That may change when Jesus returns.