Noah-Lots of Water in the Oceans and Subterranean Oceans

[Vambram]

The Bible is not a science textbook. Genesis was written in an ancient near east context with an ancient near east cosmological perspective.

2 Timothy 3:15-17


Just like the rest of the original manuscripts, the Book of Genesis is the inspired, inerrant written Word of God..... not something written with an ancient near east cosmological perspective.

 

[Diamond72]

The Bible is not a science textbook.

Every science book that has ever been written can be found in the Bible. John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Robert Boyle 1627 – 1691.
Said that a deeper understanding of science was a higher glorification of God

34 Great Scientists Who Were Committed Christians

Here are some of the greatest scientists in history who were also deeply committed to their Christian faiths. Robert Boyle 1627 – 1691. Said that a deeper understanding of science was a higher glorification of God. Defined elements, compounds, and mixtures. Discovered the first gas law - Boyle's...

www.famousscientists.org

 

[Job 33:6]

2 Timothy 3:15-17


Just like the rest of the original manuscripts, the Book of Genesis is the inspired, inerrant written Word of God..... not something written with an ancient near east cosmological perspective.

These two things are not mutually exclusive. Saying that the Bible has an ancient near East context is like saying that the Bible is written in ancient Hebrew. Or it's like saying that Moses is an ancient Israelite. It's an ancient text. And saying that the text was inspired, doesn't remove its ancient near east context, no more does it change the ancient Hebrew text into 21st century English.

 

[Ace777]

The scientists from Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois have discovered a reservoir of water that is three times the size of all of Earth's oceans, deep beneath the planet's surface. This underground water supply rests some 700 km beneath our feet.

it is not liquid, ice or vapor.

 

[The Barbarian]

it is not liquid, ice or vapor.

It is stoichiometrically tied up in rocks as water of hydration.

What Is Water of Hydration?

This is the definition of water of hydration as the term is used in chemistry and geology, along with examples.

www.thoughtco.com

You'd have to apply considerable energy to remove it from the minerals.

.

 

[HarleyER]

It is stoichiometrically tied up in rocks as water of hydration.

What Is Water of Hydration?

This is the definition of water of hydration as the term is used in chemistry and geology, along with examples.

www.thoughtco.com

You'd have to apply considerable energy to remove it from the minerals.

.

It is interesting how many "Christians" try to disprove a plausible possibility of evidence that supports the Scriptures. It's as thought they really don't want to believe what is written except for selected parts.

 

[Ace777]

You'd have to apply considerable energy to remove it from the minerals.

They talk about how exact and precise not only the earth but the entire universe, all of creation. This is where they get the butterfly effect from. A tiny bit can make a big difference. In this case rounding to the third decimal point can be the difference between a calm day and a major storm. Can you imagine trying to predict the weather before radar and satellites? They would talk to whatever city was west of them and figure tomorrow we will have the weather they are having today.

So the water maybe difficult for us to extract but no problem for God if He says: " the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." On the SAME DAY He can do both. Water from above and water from below to flood the earth. Yet during the depression hey had a great drought that we read about in the book "The Grapes of Wrath". All they had to do was drill, water was just a few feet from the surface but they did not know that. Yet Moses could hit a rock and produce water. Only Moses got in trouble for hitting it twice instead of once. For whatever that represents.

I am trying to show how all of this ties in with what you are saying. They do not always see the connection.

 

[Ace777]

Saying that the Bible has an ancient near East context is like saying that the Bible is written in ancient Hebrew.

James Breasted the great historian transferred to Yale University to study Hebrew.

 

[The Barbarian]

It is interesting how many "Christians" try to disprove a plausible possibility of evidence that supports the Scriptures. It's as thought they really don't want to believe what is written except for selected parts.

It's not that YE creationists don't believe the Bible; they just have a different interpretation than most Christians. God could,of course, have popped all that water of hydration out of the rock by a miracle.

But if one has to insert non-scriptural miracles into the text to make a particular interpretation work, that's a pretty good clue the interpretation is on shaky premises.

The "Fountains of the Deep" referred to the Sumerian idea of the universe, which pretty much all Mesopotamian people accepted:

 

[HarleyER]

It's not that YE creationists don't believe the Bible; they just have a different interpretation than most Christians. God could,of course, have popped all that water of hydration out of the rock by a miracle.

But if one has to insert non-scriptural miracles into the text to make a particular interpretation work, that's a pretty good clue the interpretation is on shaky premises.

The "Fountains of the Deep" referred to the Sumerian idea of the universe, which pretty much all Mesopotamian people accepted:

"It's not that YE creationists don't believe the Bible; they just have a different interpretation than most Christians. "

You won't get any argument from me on this one. According to the latest poll, only 20% of Christians today believe that the Scriptures are the literal word of God while 29% (of Christians) believe it is a collection of "fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man."

Fewer in U.S. Now See Bible as Literal Word of God

Coinciding with a general decline in religiosity in the U.S., a record-low 20% of Americans now say they believe the Bible is literally true.

news.gallup.com

"But if one has to insert non-scriptural miracles into the text to make a particular interpretation work, that's a pretty good clue the interpretation is on shaky premises."

What would you say about an iron axehead floating on the water, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection? Would this be considered inserting "non-scriptural miracles" to make the text work? Where do you rate yourself on the gallup poll in believing:

1) the literal word of God, and

2) collection of gables, legends...

 

[HarleyER]

They talk about how exact and precise not only the earth but the entire universe, all of creation. This is where they get the butterfly effect from. A tiny bit can make a big difference. In this case rounding to the third decimal point can be the difference between a calm day and a major storm. Can you imagine trying to predict the weather before radar and satellites? They would talk to whatever city was west of them and figure tomorrow we will have the weather they are having today.

So the water maybe difficult for us to extract but no problem for God if He says: " the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." On the SAME DAY He can do both. Water from above and water from below to flood the earth. Yet during the depression hey had a great drought that we read about in the book "The Grapes of Wrath". All they had to do was drill, water was just a few feet from the surface but they did not know that. Yet Moses could hit a rock and produce water. Only Moses got in trouble for hitting it twice instead of once. For whatever that represents.

I am trying to show how all of this ties in with what you are saying. They do not always see the connection.

"Can you imagine trying to predict the weather before radar and satellites? They would talk to whatever city was west of them and figure tomorrow we will have the weather they are having today."

I don't know where you live, but here despite all the fancy radars and satelites, the weather forecasting isn't all that its cracked up to be. They are constantly changing, modifying and adjusting the weather forecast almost every two hours to fit with the actual weather.

 

[Ace777]

"Can you imagine trying to predict the weather before radar and satellites? They would talk to whatever city was west of them and figure tomorrow we will have the weather they are having today."

I don't know where you live, but here despite all the fancy radars and satelites, the weather forecasting isn't all that its cracked up to be. They are constantly changing, modifying and adjusting the weather forecast almost every two hours to fit with the actual weather.

I live in the great lakes and we have our own weather pattern here from the lakes. Buffalo is the one that gets hit the hardest. They can get 18 or even 24 inches of snow. But if Texas gets one inch everything everywhere shuts down.

 

[The Barbarian]

What would you say about an iron axehead floating on the water, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection?

As scripture documents, God does miracles from time to time, as a means of teaching us things.

Would this be considered inserting "non-scriptural miracles" to make the text work?

Since they are in scripture, how would you figure they are non-scriptural?

Inventing non-scriptural miracles just to patch over flaws in man-made doctrines is quite another thing. All things are possible for God, but that doesn't mean He's obligated to perform a miracle to save someone's story.

 

[The Barbarian]

Where do you rate yourself on the gallup poll in believing:

The Bible is the word of God. Some of it is literal history. Some of it is parable or allegory. Some of it is poetry. It's all true, but it's not all meant to be literal history.

Would you be outraged and disillusioned if you learned that there was never an actual Good Samaritan who stopped to help a traveler who had been beaten and left for dead? Would you consider the Bible false if you learned that the sky isn't a solid dome with windows in it through which rain falls?

 

[The Barbarian]

But if Texas gets one inch everything everywhere shuts down.

Years ago, in North Texas, we had an ice storm. Bottom of our hill had several guys in the ditch after failing to go up and sliding off the road. My wife (grew up in New York area) approached in her minivan. The look on the faces of those guys as she calmly went up the hill and turned into our driveway was priceless.

 

[Ted-01]

2 Timothy 3:15-17


Just like the rest of the original manuscripts, the Book of Genesis is the inspired, inerrant written Word of God..... not something written with an ancient near east cosmological perspective.

I agree @Vambram there are huge differences as I see things.

While I'm by no means an expert on the subject, I could never understand way some folks make the claim in the first place... it doesn't make sense to me to just say that the Mesopotamians were from the ME and the Hebrews too, therefore their cultures and literature will be exactly alike. Closeness in geography doesn't necessarily mean much at all in... either in ancient cultures or in modern times.

The theology was vast different, and I think that mentioning monotheism vs. polytheism would be enough to end that discussion. But Scripture/the Bible were written in a much different fashion that any ancient ME literature, as far as I'm aware of. Ancient ME legends/myths clearly myth with some contextual aspects written as, pretty much, singular stories/narratives. Scripture is written as an historical narrative that's given relatively, consecutively and is also comprehensive in nature. It has a rather detailed creation story that's not really found in ME legends. When ME legends do speak of creation it's always about gods and whatnot fighting and chaos abounds, the aftermath being "creation". Genesis talks about order and intention. I'm not aware of any "Then God said..." statements in old ME mythology, but it's a constant throughout Scripture.

Anyway, maintain the Faith!

 

[johansen]

Actually, we can, because they would have physical effects that would leave evidence.

the christian faith is one of the only places where there is this weird.. coexistence of logic and miracles sharing time and space like Schrodinger's cat, alive and dead at the same time, waiting for someone to open the scriptures and choose their own interpretation.

I once got excited when i calculated that it might be possible to speed up the earth's rotation if you were to suspend 600 feet of water above the atmosphere and then have it all come crashing down.. from 360 days per year to 365.. but if you were to do that, the earth would be boiled alive and nothing would survive. but.. "God works miracles" --yes, but why would God send a flood one time, and an angel of death another? why not just send the black plague (of which many other plagues may have wiped out 30-60% of the earth many times before)

(even just increasing the rotation from 365 to the current 365.24xxx would boil everything) but, since creation was alledgedly perfect, why did God pick an irrational number for the days in a year?)

my sister had a dream showing her the flood was a local event in the middle east and the reason why was because God was sick of their child sacrifice. she had that dream when she was still a christian, yet had concerns about what was taught. perhaps my mom's homeschooling taught us critical thinking skills.. turns out both my sister and two younger brothers all knew the worship lyrics were theologically inaccurate, and woefully so!

anyhow, as many others have shown, all cultures have a flood myth, which Graham hancock has showed fairly well that it corresponds to the ice age of 12000 years ago. as such, anyone who had prophetic knowledge and convinced their tribe to move ahead of a catastrophe (whether drought or water) would have been regarded as a hero and the stories would be passed down.

yes the ice and flooding was global, but not all at the same time, otherwise we would not have the diversity of dna that we have today.

 

[HarleyER]

The Bible is the word of God. Some of it is literal history. Some of it is parable or allegory. Some of it is poetry. It's all true, but it's not all meant to be literal history.

Would you be outraged and disillusioned if you learned that there was never an actual Good Samaritan who stopped to help a traveler who had been beaten and left for dead? Would you consider the Bible false if you learned that the sky isn't a solid dome with windows in it through which rain falls?

"It's all true, but it's not all meant to be literal history."

It's rather difficult to argue they are NOT literal history with the genealogies that are written in Genesis 1-11 as well as Matthew and Luke.

 

[The Barbarian]

It's rather difficult to argue they are NOT literal history with the genealogies that are written in Genesis 1-11 as well as Matthew and Luke.

Seeing as the two genealogies for Jesus are contradictory, I don't see those can be literal histories.

 

[trophy33]

It's rather difficult to argue they are NOT literal history with the genealogies that are written in Genesis 1-11

In which textual version they are meant to be literal history? MT or Septuagint?