ralliann
christian
- Jun 27, 2007
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1 Pet. 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;And I have said yes, there is submission; within a dynamic of mutual submission and cooperation and love and service. Not within a dynamic of one-way control.
And I have tried to get you to clarify and to spell out exactly what you mean by "headship," and how that should be expressed, and what limits (if any) there are to it turning into a dynamic of control, but the answers have been very vague. Setting the tone and getting the right to make a decision where there's disagreement, apparently; but then there's submission in "all things" which goes way beyond that and has no apparent limits.
So I have no idea what you're really advocating for, in terms of how people actually do life together.
No, I pointed out the key similarity, which was about the relationship, and what that means for how people cooperate and work together.
No, that is not what I am claiming. But perhaps I have not spelled out my chain of reasoning clearly enough.
We know that men who abuse their wives (or partners) tend to hold a trio, a cluster, of beliefs and attitudes, which drive that abuse; and that that cluster of beliefs is not held by men who don't abuse. That's the key differentiator between why some men abuse and some don't; the ones who abuse hold these beliefs.
That cluster of beliefs is:
- acceptance of violence
- belief in hierarchy, dynamics of power and control in the household
- rigid gender roles.
So, any time we put forward justification for any of these three beliefs which underpin abuse, we foster the attitudes which drive abuse.
Am I saying that makes a person who argues for hierarchy in marriage directly responsible for someone who beats his wife? No. But I am saying that all of us - especially those of us who claim authority as teachers and leaders in the church - are indirectly responsible to the extent that we contribute in any way to the formation of these attitudes.
It's not enough to say, "I believe in hierarchy and control, but not in violence." That's still building one leg of the tripod on which abuse rests, and we need to dismantle the religious justification for the whole tripod. (This is what the work of primary prevention that I've been involved with has been working on directly; building understandings of marriage which are profoundly Scriptural, take into account the whole of Scripture, and yet do so in a way which doesn't result in abuse as the fruit of it).
To the extent that headship means control, I believe this is true.
If you can put forward an understanding of headship which does not mean control, then I will be able to see what your "undistorted" view is. But I haven't seen that yet.
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Abrahams LORDSHIP in the matter ---- Authority brings responsibility to do right....
1. "my wrong be upon thee"
Gen 16:2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. {obtain … : Heb. be built by her }
3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
4 ¶ And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
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