On Trump's 2025 Plan, if he gets re-elected as president

[ViaCrucis]

Considering one of the two is actually punishing his enemies and already addressed America dictator style, that seems a moot question.

View attachment 350612

I must have missed where Biden was sending political enemies into gulags, and acting as a dictator. Did this happen when I was taking a nap yesterday afternoon? I've been getting over a cold, so I took a nap yesterday afternoon.

Or are you just lying?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Servus]

I must have missed where Biden was sending political enemies into gulags, and acting as a dictator. Did this happen when I was taking a nap yesterday afternoon? I've been getting over a cold, so I took a nap yesterday afternoon.

Or are you just lying?

-CryptoLutheran

I think you know exactly what I'm talking about, which would make you the one who's being disingenuous.

BTW this is what Trump actually has to say about being a dictator:

Are you sure you're not being influenced by liberal media spin and propaganda?

 

[Servus]

Trump: I'm going to be a dictator for one day regarding two things; border control and drilling.

Which left-wing media quotes as: "I'm going to be a dictator" FULL STOP. Period, end of statement. So deceptive.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

house-democrats-project-2025-task-force-trump_n_66672287e4b0889986ac57cf

Trump's 2025 Plan is to simply replace the federal government, with people
who will support all his political agenda.

This is not American. It is not democracy.

Regarding the second line, no, it is not democracy, nor is the USA. The USA is a constitutional republic. That's why we have an electoral college and, before the 17th amendment, even federal senators were not chosen by popular vote. And even now, they are elected to represent us on issues. Democracy is mobocracy. That is fine at the city or county level since most people in such an area are relatively like minded and those that are not - can leave. Which is what I did when I left Seattle after 46 years and moved to rural Kentucky 13 years ago. And it was the best move of my life. I'm now surrounded by people that are at least mostly, "like me". Life is much less stressful when you live, geographically, within your own culture.

To be blunt, democracy is three wolves and two sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Democracy is three rapists and two women voting on how to spend the afternoon.

Regarding the first line, no. Trump doesn't have that many friends, nor the time to replace millions of workers. Of course, bringing in your own people and ousting the old is pretty standard procedure for incoming presidents: So Is This U.S. Attorney Purge Unprecedented Or Not?

In fact, one of the biggest mistakes I think Trump made - and I thought so at the time - was not getting rid of Fouci almost immediately. There were a lot of "Trump enemies" in his inner circle, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not for Trump replacing the federal government, but I'm DEFINITELY for him eliminating a lot of it. He can start with the department of Education. Heck, his expertise is as a CEO. That is the biggest strength he brings to the table. And the courts can let him know when he's attempting to run the country like a CEO when the law requires the use of the other branches to get things done. You know, like the SCOTUS did with Biden when he tried to forgive student loan debt via "decree".

 

[Reasonably Sane]

We have already seen that Trump despises judges who rule against him in law suits

What about the judges that rule against him and then are overturned in the higher courts? Happens all the time, especially in the case of Trump. It got so comical that my wife would tell me, "so, did you hear that Trump lost in court?", and I would reply, "Yeah, I assume this was a lower court...". And virtually every time the answer was "yes". Yet when he won, it was almost always the higher court. Meanwhile, for Biden it is the opposite. Be honest: Who didn't laugh out loud when Biden came out with that ludicrously unconstitutional student Debt forgiveness nonsense? And who isn't laughing at the verdict in the "hush money" trial? History is not going to be kind to that judge or Bragg.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

house-democrats-project-2025-task-force-trump_n_66672287e4b0889986ac57cf

Trump's 2025 Plan is to simply replace the federal government, with people
who will support all his political agenda. It would make much of the federal
government into an arm of his political party.

Whether or not you support some of the positions that Trump is taking --
and there are some positions that Christians could find appealing --
Trump wishes to dismantle the federal government.

Without an impartial federal government, America would be ruled by a single
political party, and this would be DISASTROUS.

A political party is a group of people who want the same (sort of) agenda
carried out by the president. But, the current system of 2 main political
parties was NEVER contemplated by the founding fathers of America, and
they NEVER meant federal employees (such as the military, the Department
of Justice, the Treasury, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security,
etc.) to be a tool for one political party to enforce its wishes on all American
citizens. The federal government was to serve ALL CITIZENS.

We have already seen that Trump despises judges who rule against him in law suits
(Trump wants to be free of the rule of law in America, for himself), and threatens the
families of these judges, and threatens all politicians who disagree with him. In this
behavior, it is clear that Trump CANNOT live with the American democratic ideals,
of representation of ALL opinions of citizens.

Trump is seeking the end of American democracy, and wishes to bring that about
by taking over the federal government.

His goal is to avoid prosecution. He doesn't want the fair rule of law in America,
to apply to him.

We saw clearly in the January 6th hearings, that traditional Republicans testified
against Trump's lawless behavior. Observing Trump acting outside the rule of law in
America, is not a political party thing. Trump has started political behavior that is
DIRECTLY AGAINST historical Republican values, in that Trump is attacking the
fair rule of law in America.

Trump's 2025 agenda, if he is voted in as President, is to upend the fair rule of
law in America, and make it into a system of political kangaroo courts, that will
do whatever he wants.

This is not American. It is not democracy. It is not justice.
It is not compatible with historic Christian values.

I don't know your political affiliation, but if you were a democrat I would call that whole post "projection", with a dash of gaslighting. I especially liked the "kangaroo court" part.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Trump: I'm going to be a dictator for one day regarding two things; border control and drilling.

Which left-wing media quotes as: "I'm going to be a dictator" FULL STOP. Period, end of statement. So deceptive.

A lot of people don't remember this or were not born yet, but before the internet there was a lot of debate about whether or not the MSM was leftist in its bias. Looking back it's kinda comical. The internet may contain a lot of nonsense, but so does a public library. And both contain a lot of very good information and true wisdom. And it seems to be finally working. People are waking up and tired of the nonsense. DEI is getting slaughtered, as is transgenderism as a "thing". And the truth about masking up and even vaccines regarding Covid-19 is getting out. They can't cancel enough people fast enough to stop the actual sanity.

One reason I don't really spend too much time arguing this stuff any more (I've been doing it since 1997 when I accessed the internet through a mainframe computer) is that I grasped the concept of different people having different schemas. It's like Jews and Arabs arguing. It's a waste of time. Different core values.

Oh, and for "those in Rio Linda", What Role Do Schemas Play in the Learning Process?

 

[Stephen3141]

I am encouraged that some people have joined the discussion.
These are important issues.

There are some inescapable characteristics about Trump, and that makes
a precise discussion about "what he will do" very difficult.

I didn't mention "tyrant" during the initial post. That Trump perhaps later
said that he would limit his "tyranny" to specific actions, does not give
me any comfort. Nor is it particularly relevant to the 2025 Plan.

I am more concerned that Trump has, in his actions, shown that he has
very little respect for parts of the federal government (such as the judiciary).

-- Trump has threatened a judge in his court case, and the judge's family members.
-- He has shown, through his actions, such as arguing that a president of the
United States should have global immunity from prosecution (even after
his term is over), for whatever decision he made as president. This is a
radical argument, that essentially would set aside the fair rule of law in America,
with regard to any president.
-- When president, Trump agreed with the sentiment that Nancy Pelosi and
Mike Pence, should be hung. By a lynch mob.
-- Trump has toyed with the idea that a sitting president should have the
power to execute his political enemies.
-- As a sitting president, Trump used incendiary language to invite his followers
to go down to the Capital Building and "fight like Hell". The rioting that followed
on January 6th, killed 4 people (I believe that that is the body count). And, if
this lynch mob had not been protected by the capital police, many more people
likely would have been murdered.
-- Trump has appealed, over and over again, that the right of "freedom of
speech" gives him immunity for saying whatever he wants to say, no matter
how violent or abusive, or suggestive.
---------- ----------

It is the level of Trump's strident, violent, sometimes lawless, rhetoric,
COMBINED WITH this Republican 2025 Plan, that should raise all sorts of
red flags, before American citizens.

You could argue that Trump has not yet released a detailed document, on
how he would carry out this Republican 2025 Plan. But in his own actions,
already, he has shown that he sees the instantiation of his radical rhetoric,
as completely justified.

You could argue that Trump is laying out some "rhetorical theater" for the
American people, and this does not mean that he will carry out this radical
language of these radical threats (against judges, or their families, or
political opponents, or whomever). But this is a naive argument.

The sociopathic killer Eric Harris fantasized about the Columbine school
killing, years before he carried it out. We have his personal notebooks, filled
with his hate. Somewhere along the line, this fantasizing crossed the line into
planning the killing. This progression between fantasizing, and then execution
of the fantasies, is a real possibility. In the case of the Columbine massacre,
law enforcement and mental health counsellors should have put together that
Eric had crossed the line between fantasizing, and being a credible threat.

I'm not saying that Trump is a sociopath. I am saying that Trump is collecting
his public announcements of radical and violent language (he is publishing
his personal "notebook" of fantasizing/intent). And even if Trump turns out
to be "just a talker" (he did not take part personally in the January 6th Capital
Building rioting), he is creating a "legend" (aka conspiracy theory) that he is
a persecuted well-wisher, that all sorts of "Deep State" actors are lining up
to persecute.

As long as this 2025 Plan is given tacit support by Trump, it becomes part of his
"legend/conspiracy theory".
---------- ----------

I included the thread on "conspiracy theories", because these are largely
created and propagated by the media, and in the case of the Columbine
school massacre (and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt), this "legend" and the
surrounding conspiracy theories, are ALMOST ALL WRONG. YET, there
have been about 50 shooters in multiple countries, who have claimed
that they were "inspired" or "influenced" by the legend of the Columbine
school shooters (even though, this legend is almost completely FALSE).

Those who are willing to live out these conspiracy theoty legends, are
not particularly open to carefully researching whether or not they are
true. The FBI profiler who examined all the Columbine evidence, and
came to the conclusion that the "legend of the Columbine shooters"
was almost completely false, still could not convince the online supporters
of the Eric and Dylan conspiracy theories, that they were completely
wrong.

Whether or not Donald Trump believes the radical things that he
says, he is creating a "legend/conspiracy theory" that many people in
America WILL TAKE AS A PLAN TO ACTION. And, Donald Trump's
continual mocking of the federal government agencies, and his open
threatening of judges or political opponents (and their families), makes
it seem to these "Punisher" conspiracy theory types, and vigilantes, that
Donald Trump really does mean all his radical rhetoric to been taken literally.

That is, it is reasonable for American citizens to take Donald Trump's
threats seriously, and to consider Donald Trump as a credible threat
to all sorts of American institutions. Donald Trump is signing on to the
"Deep State" legend, and there are Americans who will try to LIVE IT OUT.
More murders have been committed by the admirers of the Columbine
legend, than were ever committed by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt.
So far, more murders have been committed by those who claim to be
ardent followers of Donald Trump, than by Trump himself. But those
who killed on January 6th, claimed to be following the wishes of
Donald Trump.

These are not political conclusions. They are conclusions regarding the
statements that Donald Trump has made, the actions that he has already
taken, the language of the Republican 2025 Plan, and the rioting that
happened at the Capital Building that killed 4 Americans.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I am encouraged that some people have joined the discussion.
These are important issues.

Yes but I suspect we are so p[polarized that discussion is fruitless.
Thanks for trying.

 

[Servus]

I am encouraged that some people have joined the discussion.
These are important issues.

There are some inescapable characteristics about Trump, and that makes
a precise discussion about "what he will do" very difficult.

I didn't mention "tyrant" during the initial post. That Trump perhaps later
said that he would limit his "tyranny" to specific actions, does not give
me any comfort. Nor is it particularly relevant to the 2025 Plan.

I am more concerned that Trump has, in his actions, shown that he has
very little respect for parts of the federal government (such as the judiciary).

-- Trump has threatened a judge in his court case, and the judge's family members.
-- He has shown, through his actions, such as arguing that a president of the
United States should have global immunity from prosecution (even after
his term is over), for whatever decision he made as president. This is a
radical argument, that essentially would set aside the fair rule of law in America,
with regard to any president.
-- When president, Trump agreed with the sentiment that Nancy Pelosi and
Mike Pence, should be hung. By a lynch mob.
-- Trump has toyed with the idea that a sitting president should have the
power to execute his political enemies.
-- As a sitting president, Trump used incendiary language to invite his followers
to go down to the Capital Building and "fight like Hell". The rioting that followed
on January 6th, killed 4 people (I believe that that is the body count). And, if
this lynch mob had not been protected by the capital police, many more people
likely would have been murdered.
-- Trump has appealed, over and over again, that the right of "freedom of
speech" gives him immunity for saying whatever he wants to say, no matter
how violent or abusive, or suggestive.
---------- ----------

It is the level of Trump's strident, violent, sometimes lawless, rhetoric,
COMBINED WITH this Republican 2025 Plan, that should raise all sorts of
red flags, before American citizens.

You could argue that Trump has not yet released a detailed document, on
how he would carry out this Republican 2025 Plan. But in his own actions,
already, he has shown that he sees the instantiation of his radical rhetoric,
as completely justified.

You could argue that Trump is laying out some "rhetorical theater" for the
American people, and this does not mean that he will carry out this radical
language of these radical threats (against judges, or their families, or
political opponents, or whomever). But this is a naive argument.

The sociopathic killer Eric Harris fantasized about the Columbine school
killing, years before he carried it out. We have his personal notebooks, filled
with his hate. Somewhere along the line, this fantasizing crossed the line into
planning the killing. This progression between fantasizing, and then execution
of the fantasies, is a real possibility. In the case of the Columbine massacre,
law enforcement and mental health counsellors should have put together that
Eric had crossed the line between fantasizing, and being a credible threat.

I'm not saying that Trump is a sociopath. I am saying that Trump is collecting
his public announcements of radical and violent language (he is publishing
his personal "notebook" of fantasizing/intent). And even if Trump turns out
to be "just a talker" (he did not take part personally in the January 6th Capital
Building rioting), he is creating a "legend" (aka conspiracy theory) that he is
a persecuted well-wisher, that all sorts of "Deep State" actors are lining up
to persecute.

As long as this 2025 Plan is given tacit support by Trump, it becomes part of his
"legend/conspiracy theory".
---------- ----------

I included the thread on "conspiracy theories", because these are largely
created and propagated by the media, and in the case of the Columbine
school massacre (and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt), this "legend" and the
surrounding conspiracy theories, are ALMOST ALL WRONG. YET, there
have been about 50 shooters in multiple countries, who have claimed
that they were "inspired" or "influenced" by the legend of the Columbine
school shooters (even though, this legend is almost completely FALSE).

Those who are willing to live out these conspiracy theoty legends, are
not particularly open to carefully researching whether or not they are
true. The FBI profiler who examined all the Columbine evidence, and
came to the conclusion that the "legend of the Columbine shooters"
was almost completely false, still could not convince the online supporters
of the Eric and Dylan conspiracy theories, that they were completely
wrong.

Whether or not Donald Trump believes the radical things that he
says, he is creating a "legend/conspiracy theory" that many people in
America WILL TAKE AS A PLAN TO ACTION. And, Donald Trump's
continual mocking of the federal government agencies, and his open
threatening of judges or political opponents (and their families), makes
it seem to these "Punisher" conspiracy theory types, and vigilantes, that
Donald Trump really does mean all his radical rhetoric to been taken literally.

That is, it is reasonable for American citizens to take Donald Trump's
threats seriously, and to consider Donald Trump as a credible threat
to all sorts of American institutions. Donald Trump is signing on to the
"Deep State" legend, and there are Americans who will try to LIVE IT OUT.
More murders have been committed by the admirers of the Columbine
legend, than were ever committed by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt.
So far, more murders have been committed by those who claim to be
ardent followers of Donald Trump, than by Trump himself. But those
who killed on January 6th, claimed to be following the wishes of
Donald Trump.

These are not political conclusions. They are conclusions regarding the
statements that Donald Trump has made, the actions that he has already
taken, the language of the Republican 2025 Plan, and the rioting that
happened at the Capital Building that killed 4 Americans.

Personally I don't think his 2nd presidency will be any worse than his 1st. And pretty much all of the extreme predictions of what all horrible evil catastrophic things he was going to do or cause the first time around never came true. I heard and read the same kind of stuff above in 2016.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I am encouraged that some people have joined the discussion.
These are important issues.

There are some inescapable characteristics about Trump, and that makes
a precise discussion about "what he will do" very difficult.

I didn't mention "tyrant" during the initial post. That Trump perhaps later
said that he would limit his "tyranny" to specific actions, does not give
me any comfort. Nor is it particularly relevant to the 2025 Plan.

I am more concerned that Trump has, in his actions, shown that he has
very little respect for parts of the federal government (such as the judiciary).

-- Trump has threatened a judge in his court case, and the judge's family members.
-- He has shown, through his actions, such as arguing that a president of the
United States should have global immunity from prosecution (even after
his term is over), for whatever decision he made as president. This is a
radical argument, that essentially would set aside the fair rule of law in America,
with regard to any president.
-- When president, Trump agreed with the sentiment that Nancy Pelosi and
Mike Pence, should be hung. By a lynch mob.
-- Trump has toyed with the idea that a sitting president should have the
power to execute his political enemies.
-- As a sitting president, Trump used incendiary language to invite his followers
to go down to the Capital Building and "fight like Hell". The rioting that followed
on January 6th, killed 4 people (I believe that that is the body count). And, if
this lynch mob had not been protected by the capital police, many more people
likely would have been murdered.
-- Trump has appealed, over and over again, that the right of "freedom of
speech" gives him immunity for saying whatever he wants to say, no matter
how violent or abusive, or suggestive.
---------- ----------

It is the level of Trump's strident, violent, sometimes lawless, rhetoric,
COMBINED WITH this Republican 2025 Plan, that should raise all sorts of
red flags, before American citizens.

You could argue that Trump has not yet released a detailed document, on
how he would carry out this Republican 2025 Plan. But in his own actions,
already, he has shown that he sees the instantiation of his radical rhetoric,
as completely justified.

You could argue that Trump is laying out some "rhetorical theater" for the
American people, and this does not mean that he will carry out this radical
language of these radical threats (against judges, or their families, or
political opponents, or whomever). But this is a naive argument.

The sociopathic killer Eric Harris fantasized about the Columbine school
killing, years before he carried it out. We have his personal notebooks, filled
with his hate. Somewhere along the line, this fantasizing crossed the line into
planning the killing. This progression between fantasizing, and then execution
of the fantasies, is a real possibility. In the case of the Columbine massacre,
law enforcement and mental health counsellors should have put together that
Eric had crossed the line between fantasizing, and being a credible threat.

I'm not saying that Trump is a sociopath. I am saying that Trump is collecting
his public announcements of radical and violent language (he is publishing
his personal "notebook" of fantasizing/intent). And even if Trump turns out
to be "just a talker" (he did not take part personally in the January 6th Capital
Building rioting), he is creating a "legend" (aka conspiracy theory) that he is
a persecuted well-wisher, that all sorts of "Deep State" actors are lining up
to persecute.

As long as this 2025 Plan is given tacit support by Trump, it becomes part of his
"legend/conspiracy theory".
---------- ----------

I included the thread on "conspiracy theories", because these are largely
created and propagated by the media, and in the case of the Columbine
school massacre (and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt), this "legend" and the
surrounding conspiracy theories, are ALMOST ALL WRONG. YET, there
have been about 50 shooters in multiple countries, who have claimed
that they were "inspired" or "influenced" by the legend of the Columbine
school shooters (even though, this legend is almost completely FALSE).

Those who are willing to live out these conspiracy theoty legends, are
not particularly open to carefully researching whether or not they are
true. The FBI profiler who examined all the Columbine evidence, and
came to the conclusion that the "legend of the Columbine shooters"
was almost completely false, still could not convince the online supporters
of the Eric and Dylan conspiracy theories, that they were completely
wrong.

Whether or not Donald Trump believes the radical things that he
says, he is creating a "legend/conspiracy theory" that many people in
America WILL TAKE AS A PLAN TO ACTION. And, Donald Trump's
continual mocking of the federal government agencies, and his open
threatening of judges or political opponents (and their families), makes
it seem to these "Punisher" conspiracy theory types, and vigilantes, that
Donald Trump really does mean all his radical rhetoric to been taken literally.

That is, it is reasonable for American citizens to take Donald Trump's
threats seriously, and to consider Donald Trump as a credible threat
to all sorts of American institutions. Donald Trump is signing on to the
"Deep State" legend, and there are Americans who will try to LIVE IT OUT.
More murders have been committed by the admirers of the Columbine
legend, than were ever committed by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebolt.
So far, more murders have been committed by those who claim to be
ardent followers of Donald Trump, than by Trump himself. But those
who killed on January 6th, claimed to be following the wishes of
Donald Trump.

These are not political conclusions. They are conclusions regarding the
statements that Donald Trump has made, the actions that he has already
taken, the language of the Republican 2025 Plan, and the rioting that
happened at the Capital Building that killed 4 Americans.

Didn't read. But I will respond to this: "...
and that makes a precise discussion about "what he will do" very difficult."

My response: No, it doesn't. Two things to consider are, first, he was president for four years and has a track record. Second, our constitution protects us from crazy presidents for the most part. Look at how it has constrained Biden, and even trump in the first four years. I'm not the least bit worried about trump. I am, however, quite concerned about Biden's handlers if his regime gets another four years. At least we knew what a woman was, and which restroom to use before he became president.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think you know exactly what I'm talking about, which would make you the one who's being disingenuous.

You can think whatever you want.

Fortunately the Constitution still exists and freedom of thought still exists. I don't know that that will be true four years from now if Trump gets elected again.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Servus]

You can think whatever you want.

Fortunately the Constitution still exists and freedom of thought still exists. I don't know that that will be true four years from now if Trump gets elected again.

-CryptoLutheran

They'll exist the same as they existed after the last four years. Whenever I ask what exactly Trump did that was so terrible as president the first time around, I hear things like he never completed the wall and he issued tariffs. Never a fulfillment any of the doom prophecies made back in 2016, that are being recycled now.

 

[expos4ever]

Maybe you should answer that for yourself. We are called the right for a reason.

If trying to intimidate a public official to "find me votes" is not an attempt to gain power illegally, what is it exactly?

 

[FireDragon76]

Considering one of the two is actually punishing his enemies and already addressed America dictator style, that seems a moot question.

View attachment 350612

This reframing and practicing doublespeak is decidedly postmodern. It's vain and empty rhetoric to anybody with an ethical compass. There is no equivalence between opposing fascism, and being a fascist yourself.

 

[Servus]

This reframing and practicing doublespeak is decidedly postmodern. It's vain and empty rhetoric to anybody with an ethical compass. There is no equivalence between pointing out demagoguery and fascism, and being a fascist yourself.

That sounds so sophisticated.

 

[FireDragon76]

The fact that you can't even recognize just how ridiculous this statement was is one of the reasons why it is impossible to believe the right has anything of value to offer in terms of a consistent or meaningful world view.

-CryptoLutheran

The US has never had a principled, Burkean conservative movement in the Republican party. It's always come down to corrupt kleptocrats hiding behind hack economic theories and demagoguery.

 

[FireDragon76]

That sounds so sophisticated.

To be more direct, all Biden has done is insist on the rule of of law and political norms based on civility.

 

[Servus]

To be more direct, all Biden has done is insist on the rule of of law and political norms based on civility.

Has he ever been called a dictator?

 

[Postvieww]

If trying to intimidate a public official to "find me votes" is not an attempt to gain power illegally, what is it exactly?

If Trump had the vote counting infrastructure Joe had he could have found those votes!