Washed and clothed in Christ: The beauty of the Sacrament of Holy Baptism

[Xeno.of.athens]

Amen, amen. One must be born physically of flesh and water and one must be born from above by the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.

You are not in fact agreeing with what I wrote in post #39. You've repeated your interpretation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You are not in fact agreeing with what I wrote in post #39. You've repeated your interpretation.

Precisely. As I stated in Post #30 "You may wish to read into it the RCC rite of Christian baptism, even as you might also wish to read baptism into John 3 - born of the flesh and born of the Spirit. That is your prerogative. I humbly differ with you."

 

[Dan Perez]

according to Peter in 1 Peter 3 - the life changing .. saving action in Baptism has nothing to do with water but rather "an appeal to God for a clean conscience" -- by the one being baptized.

That fact alone - clears up a lot of confusion. This is not "baptismal regeneration" rather it is the outward act that testifies to a prior action by the sinner that is "the appeal to God for a clean conscience". It is one of the first actions of the born-again saved believer in following the Word of God... experiencing both a personal testimony given and the walk of obedience instead of continued rebellion.

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

It is a fitting symbol of , death ,burial and resurrection with Christ.
Rom 6: What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.

And you are right that 1 Peter 3:21 does not mean WATER // HUDOR is not in the Greek TEXT and the BIGGEST MISTRANSLTION is the Greek word BAPTISM , real is the Greek BAPTISMA and this Greek word is pointing to the HOLY SPIRIT ,

Eph 4:5 says ONE Lord , One FAITH , ONE BAPTISMA which is in the Greek Text .

This then means that there is ONLY ONE // HEIS and One means One and this means that that BAPTISMA means it is the HOLY SPIRIT , , is very simple .

Acts 1:5 says why , WATER BAPTISM , by John had to STOP !!

dan p

 

[LoveofTruth]

If, as Paul asserts in Ephesians, there is one baptism, and if that baptism is water baptism, then God, through Paul, is severely mistaken, because there are multitudes of rites of water baptism, not merely one. On the other hand, if baptism is through the Holy Spirit, there is, indeed, only one baptism, one faith, etc.

The one baptism cannot be water baptism in Ephesians. For we read that every believer has this one baptism, but not all may be water baptized . Every time we read the word baptism it does not refer to water baptism. Paul doesn't use the word water there. But he does say that all are baptized into Christ in places.

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor. 12;13 KJV)

the baptism into the body of Christ or baptized into Christ is the one saving baptism. This is an immersion into Christ where we put on Chris (not put on water). Water baptism was specifically attached to the old covenant diverse washings (baptismos in Greek) and to John s water baptism as jesus said in Acts 1 where he told us that john baptized (past tense) with water.

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” (Galatians 3:27 KJV)

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” (Romans 6:3 KJV not speaking of water but immersing into Jesus Christ.) Paul spoke of Jesus Christ being in believers in 2 Cor 13:3-5, and Jesus spoke of him being in men in John 15 and other places.)

 

[LoveofTruth]

"Baptism" implies water.

No, it does not always imply this. We read of baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire, we also read of men in OT times being baptized unto Moses, we read of the baptism into Christ, we also read of a baptism unto sufferings that Jesus spoke of. We also read of many diverse washings (baptismos in greek) in hebrews 9 from the OT times.

I see Johns water baptism and any outward ordinances using water as belonging to the Old Covenant times and these , along with many other old covenant laws and customs and rituals were attached to many believers all through Acts. The old covenant was to fade away and vanish, but many Jewish believers still were under the law and zealous of it and the customs and even did animal sacrifice again many years after Christ death Acts 21, etc. The Gentiles were not to come under the Old Covenant and then have to come out of that. Paul questioned peter why he tried to make the gentles live like the Jews in Galatians 2.

The one saving baptism is into Christ by the Sprit. as I understand from scripture .

Many miss this because they rush to Acts and say that the believers did something there so we should also. But many of the events we se recorded in Acts show the jewish believers still zealous of the law and also I believe they carried Johns water baptism into the time after as well. If we say, "well Peter did this or that in Acts and Paul also so we should also". Then all should still keep the law and customs of the Jews and animal sacrifices , circumcision (as Paul circumcised Timothy in Acts 16) and have a high priest and all the ordinances of the law as they did for a long tome after Christ death, as scripture shows. But this is not what we are to do.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

in OT times being baptized unto Moses

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV)
sea is water, Israel was baptised in the cloud (God's presence) and the Red Sea (water).

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

"Baptism" implies water.

"But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!" (Lk 12:50)

 

[Danthemailman]

"But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!" (Lk 12:50)

Yes, and of course, Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but was distressed about being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Yes, and of course, Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but was distressed about being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.

Yes, the fact that He would be "made sin" (2 Cor 5:21) weighed heavy on His heart.

 

[LoveofTruth]

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV)
sea is water, Israel was baptised in the cloud (God's presence) and the Red Sea (water).

this is not the baptism of John or the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

this is not the baptism of John or the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Baptism into Moses through the cloud and sea is a baptism, specifically a pre-Christian baptism, and it implies water because baptism implies water. And before someone leaps to say, "not always", of course it isn't always, that isn't the point, but in the case of Christian baptism water is used, it is implied by the word baptism.

 

[bbbbbbb]

this is not the baptism of John or the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

In actual fact, it was a baptism of wrath, given the fact that the Red Sea drowned Pharaoh's army, as was the Flood, which drowned all of humanity except Noah and his family. In a similar way there will be a baptism of fire to come in the lake of fire which burns forever.

 

[Danthemailman]

In regard to 1 Corinthians 10:2, "baptized into Moses" does not mean water baptized into the body of Moses, just like baptized into Christ does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ, which is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be water baptized "into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were baptized "into Moses," which signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that sense.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Baptism into Moses through the cloud and sea is a baptism, specifically a pre-Christian baptism, and it implies water because baptism implies water. And before someone leaps to say, "not always", of course it isn't always, that isn't the point, but in the case of Christian baptism water is used, it is implied by the word baptism.

No the word “baptism” is a transliteration of two words. And it does not always imply water. To immerse into something (or someone in the salvation sense, it is immersed into Christ and he in us) but it is the spiritual immersion that is the one baptism.

All the diverse washings (baptismos) in the old covenant were types of the reality. We read about these things not able to make the conscience clean or perfect only through the Spirit and the blood of Christ can our conscience be made good, clean, perfect.

Hebrews 9: 9. Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation….14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

This word washings here, in Greek 909 is,
baptismos.

Also the word “conscience” is important here. It connects to the inward spiritual saving baptism and the conscience cannot be clean by outward baptismos or outward rituals. It is an inward work.

1 Peter 3: 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

The word “conscience” speaks of people “with knowledge”. The knowledge of Christs finished work and his resurrection was not known in the Old Testament except in shadows.. That’s why they still had to do the sacrifices and outward washings etc. But the answer or inquiry of a good conscience was only found as we have a full assurance of hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ abd our inward witness also being risen with him.


The story of Noah and the ark and flood speak to this saving aspect of being baptized into or immersed into Christ. The ark being a type of being in Christ . Noah meaning rest and the old earth or old world and life passed away and we are raised up above the judgement of the water into the heaven lies then come into a new world. That speaks of our salvation in Christ. Not an outward washing with water.

And the baptism unto Moses is not the water baptism of John . There were many figures in the OT. But when the water parted they were told to stand still and see the salvation of the Lord. Stand still , no works you can do. There is much more about that typed of salvation but maybe for another post.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

In regard to 1 Corinthians 10:2, "baptized into Moses" does not mean water baptized into the body of Moses, just like baptized into Christ does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ, which is only accomplished through Spirit baptism.

On all three counts this interpretation is incorrect.

• First, it is in the cloud and the sea that Paul says that Israel was baptised into Moses: For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud: and all passed through the sea. And all in Moses were baptized, in the cloud and in the sea: And did all eat the same spiritual food: And all drank the same spiritual drink: (And they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ.) (1 Corinthians 10:1-4 DRB)
• Second, Christians baptised in a Baptism like burial and like rising from a grave are baptised into Christ: Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death? For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. (Romans 6:3-5 DRB)
• Third, there is only one baptism for Christians, as the scripture says: Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. (Ephesians 4:3-6 DRB)

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 teaches that Israel of old was baptised under the cloud and through the sea. Surrounded by these elements Israel experienced sacramental union with Moses into through whom they were brought into familiarity with God. Moses being their mediator, and as a type of Christ Moses was, for Israel, like Christ. And in Romand 6:3-5 the waters of baptism are a sign and symbol of union with the Lord, Jesus Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection to communion in life through Christ with God. And Ephesians 4:3-6 reminds Christians that their life in Christ is through the one Lord, faith, and baptism that brought all into communion with the one God and Father who is in all of his people.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

the word “baptism” is a transliteration

Yes, it is a transliteration of a word that means washing. Like nearly all words, baptism has other meanings as well as washing. In English baptism is a specific kind of washing, it is sacramental washing which incorporates into Christ's body, the church and which washes away sins and infuses the Holy Spirit.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Yes, it is a transliteration of a word that means washing. Like nearly all words, baptism has other meanings as well as washing. In English baptism is a specific kind of washing, it is sacramental washing which incorporates into Christ's body, the church and which washes away sins and infuses the Holy Spirit.

Sins are washed away by the blood of Christ and through faith . Without the shedding of blood is no remission. And it’s God’s righteousness for the remission of sins that is declared through faith in the blood. As scripture shows.

Revelation 1: 5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,”

Romans 3: 25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Hebrews 9: 20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”

Salvation is not by works of righteousness that we have done.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sins are washed away by the blood of Christ and through faith

Of course this is so, and sins are also washed away by baptism, as the holy apostle said: And he said, 'The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from his mouth; for you will be a witness for him to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.' (Acts 22:14-16 RSV-CE)

 

[Dan Perez]

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV)
sea is water, Israel was baptised in the cloud (God's presence) and the Red Sea (water).

And my KJV reads differently !!

And ALL // PAS , is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and that means the case , ALL means ALL of Jews and Egyptians and CLOUND

and SEA // THALESSA ,

The word THE // HO is pointing to BAPTIZO 11

So how were the were all BAPTIZO into Moses , unto the CLOUD and unto the SEA ??

They were ALL // PAS is in the SINGULAR unto MOSES , and the CLOUD and also the SEA , ALL at the SAME TIME !!!

Read it again and see !!

No WATER // HUDOR is in the Greek Text .

dan p

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

And my KJV reads differently !!

You are welcome to use the KJV but that version carries no authority for me.

But the Knox Bible says:
1 Let me remind you, brethren, of this. Our fathers were hidden, all of them, under the cloud, and found a path, all of them, through the sea;
2 all alike, in the cloud and in the sea, were baptized into Moses’ fellowship.
3 They all ate the same prophetic food,✻

‘Prophetic’; literally, ‘spiritual’. The sense may be merely that of ‘supernatural’, but it seems more likely that St Paul is regarding the manna, the water, and the rock as types of things to come; cf. Apoc. 11.8.​

4 and all drank the same prophetic drink, watered by the same prophetic rock which bore them company, the rock that was Christ.✻

St Paul is no doubt alluding to a Jewish legend, according to which the rock from which the water came was enabled, by a miracle, to accompany the wanderings of the Israelites; he means, perhaps, to attribute this abiding presence to the thing signified rather than to the rock itself.​

​

And as the Douay Rheims spoke of being baptised in Moses (in verse 2) it offers this footnote: in Moses. Under the conduct of Moses, they received baptism in figure, by passing under the cloud, and through the sea; and they partook of the body and blood of Christ in figure, by eating of the manna, (called here a spiritual food, because it was a figure of the true bread which comes down from heaven,) and drinking the water, miraculously brought out of the rock, called here a spiritual rock, because it was also a figure of Christ.

One cannot deny that the sea is watery, and that baptism as used here does imply water.