My take on mortal and venial sins

[tonychanyt]

When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording. The terms "mortal sin" and "venial sin" are not in the Bible. I would not bother using these terms in the formal doctrinal sense. When others use them in an argument, I would not give them much weight.

 

[AV1611VET]

When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording. The terms "mortal sin" and "venial sin" are not in the Bible. I would not bother using these terms in the formal doctrinal sense. When others use them in an argument, I would not give them much weight.

Mortal sins deserve Hell.

Venial sins deserve Purgatory.

Right?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording. The terms "mortal sin" and "venial sin" are not in the Bible. I would not bother using these terms in the formal doctrinal sense. When others use them in an argument, I would not give them much weight.

But you would admit some sins are more serious than others. (e.g., A white lie verses murder?)

 

[HTacianas]

When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording. The terms "mortal sin" and "venial sin" are not in the Bible. I would not bother using these terms in the formal doctrinal sense. When others use them in an argument, I would not give them much weight.

Mortal means deadly. It's simply another word for it. Venial means minor. All throughout the old testament there are sacrifices to atone for minor sins, also known as sins of ignorance.

Lev 5:15 “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the LORD, then he shall bring to the LORD as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

There was no sacrifice to atone for an intentional mortal sin. It required the death penalty:

Lev 20:10 ‘The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

In one case you have a minor sin atoned for by sacrifice, in the other an intentional sin requiring death. One is venial while the other is mortal.

 

[tonychanyt]

Venial sins deserve Purgatory.

See My take on purgatory and follow up there.

 

[tonychanyt]

But you would admit some sins are more serious than others. (e.g., A white lie verses murder?)

Right. See Are all sins equal?

 

[tonychanyt]

Mortal means deadly. It's simply another word for it.

What precisely is "it"? Please be exact. I prefer to debate with people who can.

 

[AV1611VET]

See My take on purgatory and follow up there.

Done.

 

[HTacianas]

What precisely is "it"? Please be exact. I prefer to debate with people who can.

Mortal is another word for deadly.

 

[St_Worm2]

There was no sacrifice to atone for an intentional mortal sin. It required the death penalty:

Interestingly however, while King David, who was guilty of committing three intentional ("mortal") sins (covetousness, adultery and 1st degree murder) was forgiven of all three by God on the one hand (his forgiveness being granted w/o a sacrifice of any kind, apparently), Adam and Eve (on the other hand) chose to take a bite out of an apple from a tree in their own garden (which would typically be described as being "venial", at worst) and caused not only their own deaths (spiritual and then physical), but the eventual deaths of the entirety of their progeny (as well being the cause of decay and death entering into the whole of our realm).

--David

 

[HTacianas]

Interestingly however, while King David, who was guilty of committing three intentional ("mortal") sins (covetousness, adultery and 1st degree murder) was forgiven of all three by God on the one hand (his forgiveness being granted w/o a sacrifice of any kind, apparently), Adam and Eve (on the other hand) chose to take a bite out of an apple from a tree in their own garden (which would typically be described as being "venial", at worst) and caused not only their own deaths (spiritual and then physical), but the eventual deaths of the entirety of their progeny (as well being the cause of decay and death entering into the whole of our realm).

--David

Actually David was punished by the death of his son for the murder of Uriah. He didn't walk scot free. As to Adam and Eve, they also committed a mortal sin by eating the fruit. They had been warned for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

 

[David Lamb]

Mortal sins deserve Hell.

Venial sins deserve Purgatory.

Right?

Not according to the bible:

“For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Ro 6:23 NKJV)

Not "the wages of some sins." And as has been said, there is no mention of purgatory in God's Word.

 

[tonychanyt]

Mortal is another word for deadly.

Can you quote the verse? Do you know the difference between a noun, an adjective, and a preposition? I prefer to argue with people who do.

 

[HTacianas]

Can you quote the verse? Do you know the difference between a noun, an adjective, and a preposition? I prefer to argue with people who do.

1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

A sin leading to death is a mortal sin. Mortal means deadly. Leading to death.

 

[AV1611VET]

We Baptists have basically the same thing:

We have "sins of omission" and "sins of commission."

 

[tonychanyt]

A sin leading to death is a mortal sin.

That's pretty good and I put some weight to that but I need more precision. Can you parse the above English sentence? After that, please match the words' grammatical categories against the original Greek verse. If you can do it, you will see that they don't match.

 

[eleos1954]

When it comes to doctrines, I prefer to adhere to Scripture's wording. The terms "mortal sin" and "venial sin" are not in the Bible. I would not bother using these terms in the formal doctrinal sense. When others use them in an argument, I would not give them much weight.

Mortal sins are those which result in the death of the sinner. All have sinned ... all are subject to death.. What is sin? Transgression of the law.

Through Christ one can escape the ultimate penalty of sin (death for eternity) ... for those in Christ the first death is temporal ... they will be fully pardoned by Jesus and will receive eternal life at the 1st resurrection ... amen to that one!!!!

According to the Bible all sin (transgression of the law) can be forgiven, except one.

The scriptures say that the unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. God works in our hearts through the Holy Spirit but one can ignore the Holy Spirit continuously ... and if we continue to do so then God will remove His Spirit at some point that only He decides.

The law is written in the heart ... it leads us to Christ ... after one receives Christ as their Lord and Savior ... we are led back to the law and given the power to overcome sin through the love of Christ.

The thing about the law is there isn't anything wrong with it as some may propose .... rather it's about our motive of why we keep it ... the law is to be kept out of love (agape) of our creator and for no other reasons ... that is why it is said thou shalt love (agape)

Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ" (1 Jn 4:9,10), i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power. 25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16).

Laws when kept with the correct motive the outcome is love. Living through Christ is the correct motive.

 

[St_Worm2]

Actually David was punished by the death of his son for the murder of Uriah. He didn't walk scot free. As to Adam and Eve, they also committed a mortal sin by eating the fruit. They had been warned for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Hello HTacianas, you said, "There was no sacrifice to atone for an intentional mortal sin. It required the death penalty:" I was attempting to point out that this was not always the case because, as the Bible tells us, God forgave King David of 3 sins that were all intentional (sins that the CC would surely refer to as "mortal").

As far as our progenitors and their sin goes (the sin that caused the universe to go into a tailspin, that is), I agree that it should be classified as "mortal", just like every other sin should be. IOW, sin is sin in the sense that it all needs to be atoned for and forgiven, and that by the precious blood of our Savior alone. What I mean is that no matter how insignificant a foible or peccadillo may seem to us (like stealing a piece of gum from someone else's pack of gum, for instance), it still falls under the command, "thou shalt not steal", does it not, and as such, requires both atonement and forgiveness.

Perhaps a little closer look into what the Lord actually meant when He had the Apostle John talk about "sin leading to death" and "sins not leading to death" is in order here

Finally, one last question (back to David, Bathsheba and the loss of their first baby), is it your belief that the death of David and Bathsheba' newborn baby somehow atoned for the sins that he (David) had just committed, and that it was on that basis that God was able to forgive David of his sins? If not, then on what basis was God able to forgive him in this case?

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--David

 

[tonychanyt]

on that basis that God was able to forgive David of his sins?

Good question. See How did God forgive David's sin of adultery with Bathsheba? and follow up there