'Challenges our authority': School board in Florida bans book about book bans

[Pommer]

I’m in my late 20s and fear getting old! LOL

Oh it’s easy, expect everything to hurt and be comfortable with that fact.

 

[Pommer]

Before you jump to conclusions…try to understand the other persons point of view.

The irony fairly oozes from this.

 

[RileyG]

The irony fairly oozes from this.

???? I’m always learning, sooo

 

[Reasonably Sane]

They are trying to put The Onion out of a job.

Heck, the Babylon Bee has already done that. And MSNBC is giving them a run for their money.

BTW, I try to deal with absolutes. I only consider it a book "banning" if we're talking about taking away adult access to materials. Books are not "banned" in school libraries. Rather, they are deemed inappropriate for children in some way. And that is reasonable.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

The good news about removing books from school libraries is that if you think your child should be exposed to it, you have the freedom to either buy it or check it out from the public library.

At least, that's how it works in the member countries in the United States.

 

[BCP1928]

Heck, the Babylon Bee has already done that. And MSNBC is giving them a run for their money.

BTW, I try to deal with absolutes. I only consider it a book "banning" if we're talking about taking away adult access to materials. Books are not "banned" in school libraries. Rather, they are deemed inappropriate for children in some way. And that is reasonable.

Quite right. The question is, who gets to do the "deeming?"

 

[RileyG]

Quite right. The question is, who gets to do the "deeming?"

I remember in my public library, they had a copy of Mein Kamph. I don’t know if anyone read it, but it was there.

 

[FireDragon76]

I read lots and lots of stuff in my teen years. It hasn’t harmed me as an adult, and it’s always good to keep an open mind and keep learning.

I even read material for people who disagree with me. Why? BECAUSE it’s important to keep learning and have an attempt to understand the other person’s point of view.

I read Native Son and Brave New World in school. Both have some violent or sexual content that I am sure wouldn't be acceptable to some folks. But they deal with important topics like racism or the nature of human life.

Well done. It's just a shame that some people now want to stop what you did. And I can't think of another book that deals so much with censorship than 1984.

“To Kill a Mockingbird,” by Harper Lee is one of the top ten most challenged and banned books of 2020. The same book, along with “1984” by George Orwell, “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” by Mark Twain, and “The Catcher in the Rye” by J. D. Salinger, are among the 100 most banned and challenged books of the past decade (2010-2019), according to the American Library Association.' Are These the Most Banned Books in Public Schools and Libraries in the US?

There are parts of Florida that are very much "deep South", for all the systemic evils that entails. A mixture of racist mythology, economic inequity and stagnation, anti-intellectualism (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle), and the most grotesque forms of Christianity baked into the culture.

 

[RileyG]

I read Native Son and Brave New World in school. Both have some violent or sexual content that I am sure wouldn't be acceptable to some folks. But they deal with important topics like racism or the nature of human life.



There are parts of Florida that are very much "deep South", for all the systemic evils that entails. A mixture of racist mythology, economic inequity and stagnation, anti-intellectualism (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle), and the most grotesque forms of Christianity baked into the culture.

I’ve never been to Florida, so I wouldn’t know.

 

[BCP1928]

I’ve never been to Florida, so I wouldn’t know.

It's enough that they promote the PragerU curriculum.

 

[Belk]

Heck, the Babylon Bee has already done that. And MSNBC is giving them a run for their money.

The Babylon Bee was really on the same wavelength as the Onion.

BTW, I try to deal with absolutes. I only consider it a book "banning" if we're talking about taking away adult access to materials. Books are not "banned" in school libraries. Rather, they are deemed inappropriate for children in some way. And that is reasonable.

Most of the ones I have seen I have not found reasonable. When people are trying to get books removed that are not even in the library in question it does call their methods into question.

 

[RileyG]

It's enough that they promote the PragerU curriculum.

I don't know what that is.

 

[RileyG]

Oh it’s easy, expect everything to hurt and be comfortable with that fact.

My late grandmother always knew when winter was coming when her knees were hurting, apparently.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Quite right. The question is, who gets to do the "deeming?"

School board, as far as I know. They are elected and should reflect the sensibilities of the community they serve. That being said, if I had kids that were public school age. I'd just home school them. I consider public schools to be a 19th century paradigm that outlived its usefulness in the early 21st century. It's main purpose now is to provide free daycare to parents that have sold themselves into indentured slavery.

IMO.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

When people are trying to get books removed that are not even in the library in question it does call their methods into question.

Can't argue with that. Some people are just looking for something to protest.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Sure. It happens. I even did that exact thing myself back in the day.

Ok - so you can understand why a parent may want to be more in the loop?

Which is different from censoring books due to the moralistic values of certain busybodies who are more interested in promoting an agenda than anything else.

You don't find this to be a bit hypocritical?

Both sides of this issue are promoting an agenda.

So don't check them out.

-- A2SG, other people have different sensibilities than you do, y'know.

You just admitted that you would check out books and hide the fact that you were reading them from your parents.

If books I consider to be inappropriate are included in these public-school libraries - then my child could check them out without my knowledge.

Not having these books in the public-school library does not stop any child from reading any book their parent would approve of - they may just need to gain access to the book by another means.

 

[essentialsaltes]

If books I consider to be inappropriate are included in these public-school libraries - then my child could check them out without my knowledge.

Why should libraries cater to your parenting choices? And apply those choices for all students, regardless of their parents' choices?

Just because you apparently can't control your own children doesn't mean you should be able to control everybody's children.

 

[A2SG]

Ok - so you can understand why a parent may want to be more in the loop?

Then it's on them to be more in the loop. Letting a moralistic group of busybodies do their job for them isn't the solution.

You don't find this to be a bit hypocritical?

Do I find these moralistic busybodies to be hypocritical? Yeah, probably. I don't know their personal proclivities, though, so I can't be certain...but I'd hazard a guess.

Both sides of this issue are promoting an agenda.

"We don't allow this book!"

vs.

"Let us read what we want!"

I know which side of that debate I come down on.

You just admitted that you would check out books and hide the fact that you were reading them from your parents.

I wouldn't do that now, no. Then again, I'm over 60. I don't have to hide anything from my mother.

I did it when I was a kid, though. But I found out my parents (particularly my mother) was a lot more willing to let me explore things than I thought. And she was also willing to explain things I didn't understand, so it wasn't really necessary.

Live and learn.

If books I consider to be inappropriate are included in these public-school libraries - then my child could check them out without my knowledge.

Yup. Inappropriate is a large umbrella, though...who determines what is appropriate and what isn't? I feel parents should make that call for their own children, not a group of moralistic busybodies with an agenda.

But, granted, that's me. If you're okay with that, that's your business.

When my kid was younger, my approach was to let them choose what they wanted to read. If the subject matter was too "adult", I'd try to explain what wasn't understood as best I can. But kids can't learn if they can't explore new ideas, particularly ones that challenge them.

Not having these books in the public-school library does not stop any child from reading any book their parent would approve of - they may just need to gain access to the book by another means.

But kids have easier access to school libraries, so there's a better chance they'll read stuff there than elsewhere. Which is exactly why the moralistic busybodies are targeting them.

I guess I just have more of a problem with moralistic busybodies than I do the content of banned books.

-- A2SG, that may be a personal preference, though....some people seem perfectly okay with moralistic busybodies making decisions for them....

 

[Zaha Torte]

But give me a break here, you think a novel about censorship is inappropriate.

I have not read the book and do not know everything it contains.

Any book about any subject could also contain material I might find inappropriate.

And I would not consider any of this be about censorship if the books banned from public-school libraries are still widely available elsewhere.

And I'm assuming that children check the book out from school libraries and bring it home. I can't see them sitting in the library for hour after hour reading books. If your child brings home a book that you find inappropriate, then explain why to the kid and take it from him. Exactly like you'd stop him or her viewing inappropriate content online.

That is exactly what any concerned parent would do.

Let's say I caught my child reading from a book with explicit sexual content - I would obviously take it from them and explain why it was inappropriate for them to have - yet you don't think I would also ask them where they got it from?

If they ended up getting it from their daycare - you don't think I would have something to say to them as well?

There would not no excuse for that.

But you are not in a position to dictate what other parents decide is appropriate.

I am not doing that.

Any parent is free to have any book they want in their home and allow their children to read it.

If there were no copies of the Bible or Book of Mormon in a public-school library - I would not care - because that would not infringe on what I decided was appropriate for my children.

I have grandkids. And they know what we deem inappropriate when they're round our place. But we can't watch them every second they're online. It's trust again. It starts at home.

It starts at home and extends to all people that I have entered into an agreement with.

If my child spent the night at their friend's house and my child later called me to come get them because the parents of their friend began watching a porno with them - you don't think I would have some words for those parents?

My child may have done the right thing - because I taught them right - but that does not mean no violation took place.

We all share reasonable expectations when it comes to our children and any public school that allows smut and makes it freely available for children - even if my children choose to not read it - is still a violating that reasonable expectation that we all agree on.

Then you explain to them why they can't read it. You tell them they can't. That you don't want them knowing about censorship. And then they'll start wondering why their friends have all read it and they're not allowed. Maybe the penny will drop at that point. Maybe you also should stop them reading any book that deals with irony.

Again - it is not really about censorship if the books are available elsewhere.

And I would read it first before telling them that they cannot read it.

There's a general acceptance in English speaking countries that Americans just don't get irony. Maybe they expurgated all references to it from libraries.

That doesn't make all books acceptable for children. I don't even know what you are arguing for anymore.

 

[Zaha Torte]

But...hang on. You said the book in question should be banned from the school library but available in the public one. Now you are saying that's not going to work either.

Parents tend to take their children to the public library, and they check the books out for them.

Or they can track what books the child has checked out.

Much easier for parents to know what the children are reading.