SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

[rjs330]

There are certainly policies in this forum to that effect. And you would certainly have blotted your copybook if you tried it in your school or workplace whether there are policies against it or not.

There are no policies even on this forum that require you to proclaim a person a Chistian.

 

[BCP1928]

There are no policies even on this forum that require you to proclaim a person a Chistian.

You have to assent to his claim and not deny it.

 

[rjs330]

You have to assent to his claim and not deny it.

You actually don't have to do either. You can just ignore it.

 

[rjs330]

You have to assent to his claim and not deny it.

You actually don't have to do either. You can just ignore it.

Just curious how many Christians on this forum has demanded that you affirm they are a Christian or they will report you?

 

[BCP1928]

You actually don't have to do either. You can just ignore it.

Just curious how many Christians on this forum has demanded that you affirm they are a Christian or they will report you?

It's the other way around. You may not deny that I am a Christian if I claim to be one. It's the same as with the pronouns. In some workplaces you may not deny a person's beliefs about themselves by publically using "unrequested" pronouns.

 

[RileyG]

It's the other way around. You may not deny that I am a Christian if I claim to be one. It's the same as with the pronouns. In some workplaces you may not deny a person's beliefs about themselves by publically using "unrequested" pronouns.

Apparently, it’s conducted harassment if you don’t use a persons “preordered pronouns”, sadly.

 

[BCP1928]

Apparently, it’s conducted harassment if you don’t use a persons “preordered pronouns”, sadly.

And you may be guilty of "conducted harassment" if you deny a person's faith, if it is forbidden by the rules of your school, workplace or this forum.

 

[RileyG]

And you may be guilty of "conducted harassment" if you deny a person's faith, if it is forbidden by the rules of your school, workplace or this forum.

Yes. and?

 

[BCP1928]

Yes. and?

We're drawing a parallel here between two people.
One of them thinks he is a Christian
The other one thinks he is trans.

One of them, the rules of polite society and of this forum, among other places being what they are, one would have to agree with them whatever your private thoughts may be. In public, he's a Christian. What you say to him in private about it is up to you.

The other one could be handled the same way, but many people seem to just want to be able to taunt with pronouns.

 

[RileyG]

We're drawing a parallel here between two people.
One of them thinks he is a Christian
The other one thinks he is trans.

One of them, the rules of polite society and of this forum, among other places being what they are, one would have to agree with them whatever your private thoughts may be. In public, he's a Christian. What you say to him in private about it is up to you.

The other one could be handled the same way, but many people seem to just want to be able to taunt with pronouns.

Taunt? I mean, biology “taunts” him enough, but ok?

 

[rturner76]

That's false. Planned parenthood flatly states that's not required. WPATH flatly states that's not required. A quick consultation and we are off to the races.

Thus us a psychological problem that needs psychological therapy. But no psychological therapy is required

Even if this is true, it's done under a specialist's care, meaning a Doctor.

You can beg all you want, but as has been shown to you,

Not much has been shown to me but the policy of the British NHS not paying for it for young people anymore. The NHS is broke and they will take any opportunity to cut services.

What more could be going on in 20-30 minutes?

So I guess you have been sitting in on these 20-30 minute sessions? To tell the truth, you have no idea what's involved in an evaluation and you have no idea how it varies from state to state or clinic to clinic. Stop acting like you know what goes on between individual patients and their doctors if you want any credibility.

 

[rjs330]

It's the same as with the pronouns. In some workplaces you may not deny a person's beliefs about themselves by publically using "unrequested" pronouns.

So we go back to the biology thing. You can't prove one way or another if I am a Christian. There is no objective science behind it.

However I can prove whether you are or are not rhe opposite sex. We have a number of scientific ways to prove that. We have actual objective data to reference.

 

[rjs330]

Even if this is true, it's done under a specialist's care, meaning a Doctor.

And doctors lean on what WPATH had laid out. WPATH has said no therapy is required. Just cause rhe doctor conducts rhe care, doesn't mean the doctor is correct does it. Any idea how many doctors make errors in their care? The typical doctor like who's in planned parenthood can give a kid blockers and hormones in rhe correct dosages, but they really don't know if that is what the kid really needs. Becauae no psychotherapy was actually done.

Not much has been shown to me but the policy of the British NHS not paying for it for young people anymore. The NHS is broke and they will take any opportunity to cut services.

This is a desperate attempt at skirting the issues.

We have shown you more than once it's not just the NHS.
You should read the Cass Report. You should also sound some time researching what other countries are doing and why. I'm tired of having to repeat it with you.

I guess you have been sitting in on these 20-30 minute sessions? To tell the truth, you have no idea what's involved in an evaluation and you have no idea how it varies from state to state or clinic to clinic. Stop acting like you know what goes on between individual patients and their doctors if you want any credibility.

WhatI have been doing is researching what has been going on in these sessions. I've listened to therapists who were doing these sessions. I heard from therapists who were doing these sessions and realized they were making a terrible mistake and are now trying g to rectify the situation. Including the first premier expert on these matters in the US.

I've been researching this stuff for a long time.

The medical community has an inadequate understanding of gender dysphoria itself. The NHS notes that healthcare providers cannot reliably predict how gender identity will unfold in prepubescent children and that gender identity "may evolve over time." For some people gender dysphoria is transient, while others experience it long term. Yet, as the French Academy of Medicine notes, there is no "test" to determine who will experience which.

French and Swedish health authorities cite the growing number of individuals who seek to detransition, with French authorities suggesting that there is a real risk of over-diagnosis. In other words, medical professionals have no reliable way of knowing which minors will outgrow gender dysphoria, and which minors will experience it as an ongoing condition.

A lack of supporting evidence for gender-affirming interventions
In reviewing the existing evidence, these national healthcare organizations are drawing the same conclusion: The medical profession doesn't have evidence that gender-affirming interventions reliably deliver on their promises to young people.

The U.K. and Sweden both commissioned studies to review the data and shared their results in 2022. What did they discover?

"Scarce and inconclusive evidence to support clinical decision making" (NHS)
"A lack of evidence to support families in making informed decisions about interventions that may have life-long consequences" (NHS)
"Existing scientific evidence is insufficient for assessing the effects of puberty suppressing and gender-affirming hormone therapy on gender dysphoria” (Socialstyrelsen)
“The efficacy and safety, benefits and risks of treatments are not proven” (Socialstyrelsen)
Likewise, in light of its clinical review, the Finnish Health Authority states that no evidence-based medical treatments exist for minors.

Europe has reversed course. The US hasn't. Until it does we will continue to push for banning the Affirmative Carw model for kids.

If America decides to declare the treatment as experimental and limit it to a research facility where kids have to be accepted into rhe research program, we can accept that. That's what other countries have done.

 

[BCP1928]

So we go back to the biology thing. You can't prove one way or another if I am a Christian. There is no objective science behind it.

However I can prove whether you are or are not rhe opposite sex. We have a number of scientific ways to prove that. We have actual objective data to reference.

If you say you believe you are a Christian, I cannot disprove it.
If I say I believe I am trans, you cannot disprove it.

 

[rjs330]

If you say you believe you are a Christian, I cannot disprove it.
If I say I believe I am trans, you cannot disprove it.

So we are returning back to faith then. That faith is required in order to accept that someone is trans. So it's a religious thing. No objective reality behind either then.

 

[BCP1928]

So we are returning back to faith then. That faith is required in order to accept that someone is trans. So it's a religious thing. No objective reality behind either then.

No, you still don't get it. It's the faith required to believe that they think they're trans. Can you really not see the difference?

It's the same with a Christian. You tell me you are a Christian. I believe you, that is I believe you think you are a Christian. Whether I believe you are a Christian or not is besides the point. I don't have to think that you are a Christian in order to believe that you think you are a Christian.

 

[rjs330]

No, you still don't get it. It's the faith required to believe that they think they're trans. Can you really not see the difference?

It's the same with a Christian. You tell me you are a Christian. I believe you, that is I believe you think you are a Christian. Whether I believe you are a Christian or not is besides the point. I don't have to think that you are a Christian in order to believe that you think you are a Christian.

Right it's based on faith. There is no objectivity involved.

Except there is. You can't prove in any way that I'm not a Christian if I say I am.
When someone says they are trans you have no way of proving if they are or aren't. You take it on faith. That's how men end up in women's spaces. It's a faith based belief.

But it gies much deeper than that. What is a transwoman claiming to be? A man that claims to be a woman. But in order to be a woman you have to have the biology of a woman which a man doesn't have. Therfore they too have to have faith in things unseen. They too have to take it on faith that they are a woman.

I can absolutely prove beyond any doubt that they are not a woman. But they have faith they are anyway. And you have faith in their faith. Because you are willing to completely alter society for their faith. Which you aren't Willing to do for any other.

Which is quite fascinating.

 

[BCP1928]

Right it's based on faith. There is no objectivity involved.

Except there is. You can't prove in any way that I'm not a Christian if I say I am.
When someone says they are trans you have no way of proving if they are or aren't. You take it on faith.

I take it on faith that they think they are trans. I don't have to conclude that they are trans in fact, only that they think they are trans.

That's how men end up in women's spaces. It's a faith based belief.

But it gies much deeper than that. What is a transwoman claiming to be? A man that claims to be a woman. But in order to be a woman you have to have the biology of a woman which a man doesn't have. Therfore they too have to have faith in things unseen. They too have to take it on faith that they are a woman.

When a trans woman says "I am a trans woman" why would I conclude that she has female reproductive organs? In fact, the obvious conclusion would be that she did not.

I can absolutely prove beyond any doubt that they are not a woman.

Something they would agree with, because they are trans women and know full well what gonads they have.

But they have faith they are anyway. And you have faith in their faith. Because you are willing to completely alter society for their faith. Which you aren't Willing to do for any other.

Which is quite fascinating.

I have to alter very little important about society. to accommodate trans people.

 

[rturner76]

The typical doctor like who's in planned parenthood can give a kid blockers and hormones in rhe correct dosages, but they really don't know if that is what the kid really needs.

Neither do you. Every case is different and every medication affects every person in a different way.

We have shown you more than once it's not just the NHS.
You should read the Cass Report. You should also sound some time researching what other countries are doing and why. I'm tired of having to repeat it with you.

Do we live in another country or the United States? Also, people like you and I'm sure even more in Europe because of their high taxes don't want the government to have to pay for these treatments.

Yet, as the French Academy of Medicine notes, there is no "test" to determine who will experience which.

That is why it's done one one with between the patient and doctor. Every case is individual and has an individual treatment.

In other words, medical professionals have no reliable way of knowing which minors will outgrow gender dysphoria, and which minors will experience it as an ongoing condition.

I don't think there is a reliable way to predict anything a teenager might change their mind about but if we deny them the treatment they request it opens up a whole other list of legal consequences. So while it's legal and that is the medical model, doctors aren't going to refuse treatment and risk a civil rights lawsuit. People love suing doctors.

The medical profession doesn't have evidence that gender-affirming interventions reliably deliver on their promises to young people.

I think it does deliver to those who are serious and honest in their evaluation. Some people like with pain killers say the keywords they need to say in order to qualify for the medication they want. Doctors are compelled to take patients at their word when they report symptoms. So the Doctor's hands are tied. You need to work harder at banning these treatments because it's going to continue until laws are changed.

Europe has reversed course. The US hasn't. Until it does we will continue to push for banning the Affirmative Carw model for kids.

If America decides to declare the treatment as experimental and limit it to a research facility where kids have to be accepted into rhe research program, we can accept that. That's what other countries have done.

Europeans don't have the same level of freedom as most European countries so we have the philosophy across the board with our laws that the individual knows what they want and they are allowed get it unless it endangers other people.

 

[rjs330]

When a trans woman says "I am a trans woman" why would I conclude that she has female reproductive organs? In fact, the obvious conclusion would be that she did not.

I would agree. But a man thinks they are a woman despite the fact they don't have a female biology. At least you have to have faith he thinks he is a woman. You don't know if he really does or doesn't. Just becauae he says he is a woman doesn't mean he actually does think that. He could be lying.

But let's say that he does think he's a woman. He has to have faith that he is a woman, because all evidence is contrary to that. I feel like I woman is nothing more that a belief system. A faith system that is based on things that are unseen and untestable. In fact it's in belief to all evidence to the contrary.

Something they would agree with, because they are trans women and know full well what gonads they have.

And yet they often undergo body transforming drug therapy and surgerie in order to be as close to things that they aren't. They also work to get into women's spaces and be called women's pronouns that have always been reserved to biological women. None of the surgeries or drugs make them something they aren't. So what exactly are they trying to become?

I have to alter very little important about society. to accommodate trans people.

Yet society is being altered with or without your personal involvement. And if you do involve yourself you absolutely are altering society. Because society is never altered without the permission and support of those within it. And in your case you are getting involved and are aiding the alteration.