Starting to struggle with something.

[Lady Bug]

Hi, gosh darn it you've seen this kind of thing - not from me, though, but elsewhere, so here I go. I hate to say this but I don't understand what's wrong with wanting a doctrine to be only in the Bible itself.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Hi, gosh darn it you've seen this kind of thing - not from me, though, but elsewhere, so here I go. I hate to say this but I don't understand what's wrong with wanting a doctrine to be only in the Bible itself.

Can you give an example of a doctrine that folks want only in the Bible? It would help all of us a lot in order to answer your question, sister.

 

[Lady Bug]

Can you give an example of a doctrine that folks want only in the Bible? It would help all of us a lot in order to answer your question, sister.

Well, one example was that even though there is a passage in Revelation about "prayers of the saints," there is no example of anyone (that I know of) in the Bible actually petitioning the saints for prayers like we often do.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Well, one example was that even though there is a passage in Revelation about "prayers of the saints," there is no example of anyone (that I know of) in the Bible actually petitioning the saints for prayers like we often do.

Well, Revelation 5:8 has slightly different meanings. The saints are God's chosen people. Here are four of my favorite translations. 75% use "saints", while 25% use "God's people".

Rev 5:8 (NIV): And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

Rev 5:8 (ESV): And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Rev 5:8 (NRSV-CE): When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Rev 5:8 (NKJV): Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

 

[Offline4Better.]

@Lady Bug , what is your favorite Bible translation? Mine are the four used above. What other doctrines outside of scripture do folks want only in the Bible? Your question might be touching on tradition (church history) and scripture, where both are needed in the Catholic Church.

ESV, NIV, NKJV, and NRSV-CE are my favorite.

 

[Michie]

Hi, gosh darn it you've seen this kind of thing - not from me, though, but elsewhere, so here I go. I hate to say this but I don't understand what's wrong with wanting a doctrine to be only in the Bible itself.

Early Christian history/ tradition?? You have problems with that? Doesn’t it all gel with Scripture? The whole CCC has Scriptural references… I guess I do not get where you are coming from. what does Sola Scriptura even mean without spiritual guidance? Isn’t Christianity an offshoot from Judaism? As an ex-Protestant, I can tell you Sola Scriptura can mean everything and anything. There is no reference…So could you go into more detail?

 

[Lady Bug]

Can someone close this thread for the time being? I guess I jumped the gun. I should have written down any problems first. Sorry about all this.

 

[Offline4Better.]

Can someone close this thread for the time being? I guess I jumped the gun. I should have written down any problems first. Sorry about all this.

You can ask @FreeinChrist to close it for you. But, these are valid questions for new Catholics. You can ask the mods (private message) to reopen the thread on your dime.

 

[RileyG]

There was no canon of scripture for the first 400 years of Christianity.

The first gospel was probably written around 30 years after the death and resurrection of Christ.

Therefore, sola scriptura is not logical or consistent.

Be blessed.

 

[Diamond72]

Well, one example was that even though there is a passage in Revelation about "prayers of the saints," there is no example of anyone (that I know of) in the Bible actually petitioning the saints for prayers like we often do

We are all called to be saints. We are called to be Holy and Sanctified to enter boldly before the throne of God. Not everyone is willing to pay the price so they ask those that are to intercede for them. This is not what God hears the prayers of the saints is a sweet aroma before God. This is a testimony to their purity before God. Holy, Sanctified and Set apart for His good service. A part of that is to intercede for others in the Church.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi, gosh darn it you've seen this kind of thing - not from me, though, but elsewhere, so here I go. I hate to say this but I don't understand what's wrong with wanting a doctrine to be only in the Bible itself.

Sola Scriptura, the Bible alone, would be a great idea if it worked. But it doesn’t. To work it would have to be a doctrine found itself in the Bible alone. It’s not. Close but no cigar. Second, it would have to provide clarity and agreement. It doesn’t. All sorts of people claim the Bible alone says such and such, or the complete opposite, or something entirely different. That’s how you get thousands of denominations.

Not everything is in Scripture. Following Bible alone would mean having to be silent on some moral issues for example if Scripture wasn’t clear on it. I have seen a (not very convincing) Bible alone defense of abortion based on when a baby takes her first breath. Catholic moral tradition is based on more than someone’s interpretation of the Bible alone. Thankfully.

Tradition and Scripture and the Magisterium together still make a more stable and rational approach. AND a careful reading of Scripture very often backs up Traditional belief where a superficial reading of the Bible can be made to look contrary to Catholic beliefs.

 

[tampasteve]

Can someone close this thread for the time being? I guess I jumped the gun. I should have written down any problems first. Sorry about all this.

I can help out with that. Let me know if you want it re-opened or you can create a new thread.


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