SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

[BCP1928]

Biology is not a linguistic convention.

Yes you are making a profound statement. The fact you don't see it is extremely limited. It's nothing more than staring at the tree so you miss the entire forest.
Gender is a faith based concept. And you are free to choose whatever faith you choose. Just like I am. What neither of us should be doing is force our systems of faith on others.

Let me get this strait. If I use requested pronouns because I think a person is a trans woman, it makes me believe that person to actually be a biological woman--even though I still think she is a trans woman, not a biological woman. In other words, using pronouns can cause me to have beliefs that I am completely unaware of and are contrary to what I think I believe?

 

[Merrill]

Because, as everyone knows, the most qualified person to determine whether a medical treatment is harmful or not is a politician.

-- A2SG, that's why everyone trusts politicians to make all their medical decisions for them.....

and politicians don't make laws regarding vaccinations for children?

what about big city mayors creating laws demanding the use of "vaccine passports" for going out in public and eating at restaurants?

pretty sure the political left fully supports politicians making our medical decisions when they agree with those policies

 

[Pommer]

and politicians don't make laws regarding vaccinations for children?

Watch, it’ll turn out that polio actually made the survivors children much smarter, (or some such)!?

 

[BCP1928]

and politicians don't make laws regarding vaccinations for children?

what about big city mayors creating laws demanding the use of "vaccine passports" for going out in public and eating at restaurants?

pretty sure the political left fully supports politicians making our medical decisions when they agree with those policies

Yes. the political left fully supports politicians making decisions based on the best medical advice available. We realize that even the best medical advice may be wrong but in general will be more reliable than medical advice from politically motivated right-wing Christians.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes. the political left fully supports politicians making decisions based on the best medical advice available.

The best medical advice available has concluded that the research on transitioning treatments for children is of such poor quality that the practice should end immediately. The best medical research indicates puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy....are sterilizing children and stunting their physical development.

We realize that even the best medical advice may be wrong but in general will be more reliable than medical advice from politically motivated right-wing Christians.

Unfortunately, thanks to DEI, doctors aren't what they used to be in regards to competency and merit (but they are more diverse).

Apart from this though....the idea that the experts all agree (or even mostly agree) is nonsense. Germany just banned puberty blockers and HRT for children joining the growing number of nations doing so.....and Peru just reclassified being transgender as a mental illness.

 

[BCP1928]

The best medical advice available has concluded that the research on transitioning treatments for children is of such poor quality that the practice should end immediately. The best medical research indicates puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy....are sterilizing children and stunting their physical development.



Unfortunately, thanks to DEI, doctors aren't what they used to be in regards to competency and merit (but they are more diverse).

Apart from this though....the idea that the experts all agree (or even mostly agree) is nonsense. Germany just banned puberty blockers and HRT for children joining the growing number of nations doing so.....and Peru just reclassified being transgender as a mental illness.

OK, you won't hear from me that the US is doing a good job with trans kids. I have no use for either side of the issue. However, given the long time it takes to train a doctor and the relative novelty of DEI, I hardly think it iis the cause of medical decisions you disagree with.

Maybe, when the power of the preferred pronouns I use kicks in and I start believing that trans women are actually biological women I will change my mind.

 

[RileyG]

It's always instructive when my simple questions about a previous talking point require the talking point to be abandoned in favor of jumping to a different one.

If you want to call a biological man a woman because he identifies as one or vice versa, that’s fine.

Transgender people cannot force everyone to accept their identity.

They made their choice and they reap what they sow.

Simple.

 

[rjs330]

Weird how me simply asking a much less accusatory question led to an accusation of showing contempt to the groups in question. Seems like this sort of judgement is very fluid.

I gave no idea what you are trying to say. Would you not consider someone who thinks they are a bird delusional? Was the person who tossed their child into the water delusional because thought the child was a fish?

Let's see you dodge this.

 

[rjs330]

Let me get this strait. If I use requested pronouns because I think a person is a trans woman, it makes me believe that person to actually be a biological woman--even though I still think she is a trans woman, not a biological woman. In other words, using pronouns can cause me to have beliefs that I am completely unaware of and are contrary to what I think I believe?

You are absolutely participating in that faith system. Because the person believes they are a woman and therefore should have the right to be treated as such. Including controlling your speech. Just like if I demanded that you acknowledge and say that being gay is a sin. You may say you don't believe but once you affirm my belief and say it you have just confirmed that what I believe is true. And if mire than just you keros affirming it as true you have just given me power to create law and policy to support that.

By affirming them as a women you no longer have the power to tell them they can't make others say it too through force of law or policy. Would you tell the, hey I didn't say you are a woman I just said you are a transwoman?

You have affirmed tbier faith they they are indeed a woman. Correct?

 

[BCP1928]

I gave no idea what you are trying to say. Would you not consider someone who thinks they are a bird delusional? Was the person who tossed their child into the water delusional because thought the child was a fish?

Let's see you dodge this.

Dodge what? If people who are delusional about something but are otherwise capable of functioning as productive citizens. Look at you: you're delusional, You are deluded into thinking that you know more about what I truly believe about trans persons than I do myself. If you are otherwise harmless I can just ignore your delusion if I want. Certainly, if I ignore it that doesn't mean I must share it.

 

[BCP1928]

You are absolutely participating in that faith system. Because the person believes they are a woman and therefore should have the right to be treated as such. Including controlling your speech.

Mostly they believe they are trans women who want to be treated as biological women. They make that distinction themselves and there is no reason to think otherwise The notion that all trans women are trying to deceive others (or themselves) into thinking they are real biological women is unfounded. Some, of course, are clinically dimorphic, but even then there is no reason I have to believe that they really are biological women.

Just like if I demanded that you acknowledge and say that being gay is a sin. You may say you don't believe but once you affirm my belief and say it you have just confirmed that what I believe is true.

You lose on that one. All I have to agree to is that you think gay is a sin.

And if mire than just you keros affirming it as true you have just given me power to create law and policy to support that.

By affirming them as a women you no longer have the power to tell them they can't make others say it too through force of law or policy. Would you tell the, hey I didn't say you are a woman I just said you are a transwoman?

You have affirmed tbier faith they they are indeed a woman. Correct?

No, that's not true and you have repeated it so often that I think we can upgrade it's status to bald-faced lie.

 

[Ana the Ist]

OK, you won't hear from me that the US is doing a good job with trans kids. I have no use for either side of the issue. However, given the long time it takes to train a doctor and the relative novelty of DEI, I hardly think it iis the cause of medical decisions you disagree with.

The relative novelty of DEI is....as far as I can tell....informal implementation in universities as far back as 10-15 years ago and not at all uncommon. The formal implementation (by federal diktat) is certainly newer....but it really all depends upon when the medical school adopted the whole DEI nonsense.

Maybe, when the power of the preferred pronouns I use kicks in and I start believing that trans women are actually biological women I will change my mind.

I hope you don't mind this question about pronouns....since I answered a somewhat random question about pronouns from you....

If you're using preferred pronouns despite not seeing trans women as women and trans men as men.....is it clear to the trans person/people who are asking you to alter your language that despite your compliance, you don't agree with them and you're essentially lying on request?

 

[BCP1928]

The relative novelty of DEI is....as far as I can tell....informal implementation in universities as far back as 10-15 years ago and not at all uncommon. The formal implementation (by federal diktat) is certainly newer....but it really all depends upon when the medical school adopted the whole DEI nonsense.

And the effect it may have had on general physician competence is still unknown, really.

I hope you don't mind this question about pronouns....since I answered a somewhat random question about pronouns from you....

If you're using preferred pronouns despite not seeing trans women as women and trans men as men.....is it clear to the trans person/people who are asking you to alter your language that despite your compliance, you don't agree with them and you're essentially lying on request?

No. I haven't been required to believe that trans men are biological men and trans women are biological women. At least none of the trans people I actually know and/or use requested pronouns in reference to have required that I believe anything at all about their underlying biology. I'm just using the terms out of social courtesy, anyway, and have no sense within myself of making a profound statement about the fundamental nature of men and women. No doubt you feel differently, but my experience of trans, especially in the workplace, may not be the same as yours.

 

[rjs330]

Dodge what? If people who are delusional about something but are otherwise capable of functioning as productive citizens. Look at you: you're delusional, You are deluded into thinking that you know more about what I truly believe about trans persons than I do myself. If you are otherwise harmless I can just ignore your delusion if I want. Certainly, if I ignore it that doesn't mean I must share it.

Good I'm glad you agree it's delusional. And I certainly agree we can ignore the delusion. I would love to have ability to ignore it.

Except we can't. You can't and don't. You also support the we can't ignore it ideology. You've spent this whole thread telling us we shouldn't ignore it. That we need to buy into it. On other threads you supported policies forcing people to support it by action and words.
We also are supposed to support men going into women's spaces.

The ability to ignore it would be, you do what you want and you don't force us to support it through law and policy.

 

[rjs330]

Mostly they believe they are trans women who want to be treated as biological women.

Why would you want to gave all access to biological women spaces and control peoples speech when you aren't one? No they don't believe they are just trans women, they believe they are women.

You lose on that one. All I have to agree to is that you think gay is a sin.

No you have to agree that being gay is sin.

, that's not true and you have repeated it so often that I think we can upgrade it's sttus to bald-faced lie.

I don't think so. Would you tell a transwoman they are not a woman? If they asked you if you believe they are a woman what would you say?

 

[BCP1928]

Why would you want to gave all access to biological women spaces and control peoples speech when you aren't one? No they don't believe they are just trans women, they believe they are women.

So a trans woman who does not believe she believes she is a real woman is deluded, because she actually does believe she is a real woman, even though she is not aware of it.

No you have to agree that being gay is sin.

Why?

I don't think so. Would you tell a transwoman they are not a woman? If they asked you if you believe they are a woman what would you say?

In my personal experience of trans people they are open about it so it is already known that they are trans*. Of, course, I may have interacted with some and not known about it, in which case I would have no reason to denounce her, having no idea whether she was deluded into not believing she was a real woman or not. Or something. How do you find out that people really believe something that they don't think they believe? It sounds like you have some kind of sinister mind reading superpower.

*Of course I only have met trans women who apparently have already been deluded into believing that they don't believe that they are real women. I have no experience of transwomen who are aware that they believe they are real women.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And the effect it may have had on general physician competence is still unknown, really.

I know that a lot of the people on the left that adopted a lot of the woke beliefs don't understand statistics....right? Otherwise, it would be extremely difficult to get them to accept much of what they now believe as true.

Your statement above essentially proves this point. We do know the effect on competency...it's something statistically predictable. Doctor competency will decline...and overall health outcomes will decline with them.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/06/ucla-woke-medical-school-dei/678606/

In order to believe otherwise, I'd have to believe that the white and asian male doctors weren't getting their degrees based on competence and instead were achieving these goals due to some other factor like "privilege" instead....and that we could insert whomever didn't fit my racial preferences and they would succeed just like the whites and asian men.

Of course, that's not how reality works, and it's already killing the reputation of our medical schools.

No. I haven't been required to believe that trans men are biological men and trans women are biological women. At least none of the trans people I actually know and/or use requested pronouns in reference to have required that I believe anything at all about their underlying biology.

Sure...but what I'm asking is if they know you're lying to them? If a trans woman asked you to be completely honest and answer the question...."Do you think I'm a real woman?" Does this person know that you'd answer "no"? Or would you lie?

I'm just using the terms out of social courtesy

Again, do they know that? That it's just a "polite lie" to you?

 

[BCP1928]

I know that a lot of the people on the left that adopted a lot of the woke beliefs don't understand statistics....right? Otherwise, it would be extremely difficult to get them to accept much of what they now believe as true.

Your statement above essentially proves this point. We do know the effect on competency...it's something statistically predictable. Doctor competency will decline...and overall health outcomes will decline with them.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/06/ucla-woke-medical-school-dei/678606/

In order to believe otherwise, I'd have to believe that the white and asian male doctors weren't getting their degrees based on competence and instead were achieving these goals due to some other factor like "privilege" instead....and that we could insert whomever didn't fit my racial preferences and they would succeed just like the whites and asian men.

Of course, that's not how reality works, and it's already killing the reputation of our medical schools.

OK

Sure...but what I'm asking is if they know you're lying to them? If a trans woman asked you to be completely honest and answer the question...."Do you think I'm a real woman?" Does this person know that you'd answer "no"? Or would you lie?





Again, do they know that? That it's just a "polite lie" to you?

No, it's not a polite lie to me. In the first place, all of the trans women I know (just a few, really) are open about being trans. When I use requested pronouns for them they already know it's not because I think they are real women. If I don't know (and it's likely that I have met trans women who I don't know are trans) then the subject wouldn't come up.

 

[rjs330]

So a trans woman who does not believe she believes she is a real woman is deluded, because she actually does believe she is a real woman, even though she is not aware of it.

So transwomen don't believe they are women? I think you'll have to support that.

Why?

Because I believe it. And if you don't want to offend me you have to say it too. You know, to be polite. You do t actually have to believe it, just say it

my personal experience of trans people they are open about it so it is already known that they are trans*. Of, course, I may have interacted with some and not known about it, in which case I would have no reason to denounce her, having no idea whether she was deluded into not believing she was a real woman or not. Or something. How do you find out that people really believe something that they don't think they believe? It sounds like you have some kind of sinister mind reading superpower.

That's not what I asked. You said they already know they are trans. If course they do. Do they believe they are a woman?
What is a trans woman?

If they asked you if you believed they are a woman, what would you say?

Trans Women Are Women. This Isn’t a Debate.

If a transgender woman was assigned male at birth, are they still a male? If so, then why do they want to change their birth certificates to.indicatw they are female. And what is a female?
What is a woman?
What is a transwoman.
You claim they are not women, but would affirm they are women. It's a double minded position.

trans woman (short for transgender woman) is a woman who was assigned male at birth.

Trans woman - Wikipedia

A trans woman is a woman who is trans. They were assigned a masculine sex and gender at birth and have since transitioned to a feminine gender.

What Does It Mean to Be Transgender?

Trans Women Are (or Are Becoming) Female: Disputing the Endogeneity Constraint | Hypatia | Cambridge Core

Trans Women Are (or Are Becoming) Female: Disputing the Endogeneity Constraint - Volume 37 Issue 2

www.cambridge.org

• A transgender woman is a woman (lives as a woman, identifies as a woman) and was assigned male at birth.
• A transgender man is a man (lives as a man, identifies as a man) and was assigned female at birth.

Trans 101

You see the claim is they ARE men or ARE Women despite what they were born as.

You dont believe they are women. But you are.willing to lie to them about it? Confirm to them they are a woman?

.

 

[KCfromNC]

If you want to call a biological man a woman because he identifies as one or vice versa, that’s fine.

Transgender people cannot force everyone to accept their identity.

They made their choice and they reap what they sow.

Simple.

Can we substitute in other groups whose self-identity isn't based on empirical verifiable facts?

Because the last time I tried, that was labeled as showing contempt for the group. But for some reason the post I'm responding to seems to say it is fine.

Wonder when it will flip flop back yet again? Perhaps it depends less on the details of how individuals come to their conclusions about self-identification and more on whether the individual is part of the in group or is one of the minority groups GOP propaganda is attacking to score cheap political points.