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Trump found guilty on all 34 counts

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essentialsaltes

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Here is another perspective may be this one. He is an eyewitness to what was happening in the courtroom when the press was cleared out:

If he stayed when everyone in the public including the press was removed, Dersh wasn't a member of the public or media. He was there as an invited ally of Trump, like the MAGA politicians and his family. How can we view his opinions on the "validity" of the trial and process as anything *but* as a committed Trump ally.

Alan Dershowitz, Bernie Kerik, Vernon Jones join Trump trial guest list

NEW YORK — Former President Donald Trump attended his trial Monday with a large entourage that included lawyer Alan Dershowitz, former New York Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik and Democrat-turned-Republican Vernon Jones, a former state representative from Georgia and outspoken champion of the former president.

Mr. Dershowitz’s presence is notable. He is one of the most famous lawyers in America and represented Mr. Trump during his first impeachment trial.

He has worked with celebrities and public figures, serving on the defense team for Harvey Weinstein and negotiating a non-prosecution agreement for Jeffrey Epstein, a financier and sex offender who killed himself in prison in 2019.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I think a Harvard law professor with 60 years of experience choosing to be an ally of Trump is a positive reflection on Trump. Ben Shapiro who's a lawyer has also pointed out how the trial went as it shouldn't have. Even Elon Musk who's rather brilliant wrote:

In the clips posted Dershowitz's bias has been fully revealed and so has his lying on behalf of Mr. Trump. (As Cohen demonstrates, this is exactly what Trump likes -- people who will lie for him. It demonstrates both loyalty and an exploitable deficiency of character.)

Ben Shapiro went to law school? Who knew. He's been a poltical commentator continuously since he was in college or HS (I forget which). Has he ever practiced law?

Elon Musk is irrelevant and is working hard to have Dunning-Kruger effect renamed after himself. His "brilliance" in what ever it is he is actually brilliant in has lead him (and his fans) to think of himself as universally brilliant. No one is "universally brilliant.
 
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ozso

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You know, I’ve heard this from so, so many republicans in the past few years especially after he left office so disgracefully and yet somehow, Trump isn’t just ahead of his challengers on the right, he’s completely cleared the field for himself and that only happens with millions upon millions of republicans going out, supporting and voting for the guy in the primaries over all his challengers. You’ve all had many chances to prove he’s not your main man yet, here we are. A convicted felon is somehow your only choice in this election.
Yeah that "convicted felon" line is really being put to use as a political weapon as no doubt was intended.
 
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Postvieww

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No, I haven't ignored it. But, I do recognize that Detshowitz is a defense attorney, not a prosecutor, and therefore his analysis would come from that perspective.
Totally irrelevant. He has vast court room experience and is
more than qualified to recognize improper court room procedure by a rogue judge and improperly used legal statutes..
I bet he's sure he could get Trump's case reversed on appeal, and would be more than happy to be hired for the case.


My qualifications, I bet, equal your own.

I do not claim legal qualifications, but I do have common sense and can tell a qualified legal expert from a political hack.

I'm simply not seeing any procedural or legal irregularities that might warrant a reversal of the verdict, but I'm more than willing to accept the verdict of the appeals court, when it eventually comes.

-- A2SG, facts do seem in short supply, though we do have an overabundance of opinions....
Irregularities have been pointed out in many posts on this thread but apparently you refuse to accept any analysis that does not conform to your personal political bias.
 
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ozso

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In the clips posted Dershowitz's bias has been fully revealed and so has his lying on behalf of Mr. Trump. (As Cohen demonstrates, this is exactly what Trump likes -- people who will lie for him. It demonstrates both loyalty and an exploitable deficiency of character.)

Ben Shapiro went to law school? Who knew. He's been a poltical commentator continuously since he was in college or HS (I forget which). Has he ever practiced law?
Harvard Law School (Juris Doctor).
Elon Musk is irrelevant and is working hard to have Dunning-Kruger effect renamed after himself. His "brilliance" in what ever it is he is actually brilliant in has lead him (and his fans) to think of himself as universally brilliant. No one is "universally brilliant.
I'm seeing pure unadulterated bias.
 
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Hans Blaster

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He was there and you weren’t but you know he’s lying?
Because the way he described jury selection was false. I know you are familiar with basic court procedures and would reject the claim that a jury was chosen by the prosecutor and the judge as Dershowitz made. (Reporting of jury selection also made it clear that wasn't what happened in this particular case.)
 
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Hans Blaster

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Harvard Law School (Juris Doctor).
Doesn't stop them from lying. There are a huge pool of national politicians with vocational doctorates (JD) from Harvard including ones I suspect you can't stand as well as ones I can't stand.
I'm seeing pure unadulterated bias.
From Dersh if you look carefully.
 
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ozso

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Because the way he described jury selection was false. I know you are familiar with basic court procedures and would reject the claim that a jury was chosen by the prosecutor and the judge as Dershowitz made. (Reporting of jury selection also made it clear that wasn't what happened in this particular case.)
I'm pretty sure Shapiro talks about jury selection and orders in there somewhere:

 
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childeye 2

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Ironically this is you projecting your opinion.
Actually, it's not my opinion. Everything I said is observable fact about the differences between positive and negative prejudice, and about carnal vanity. The last paragraph is a hypothetical scenario, but it is facts based. Those facts being that some people know more than others as a matter of circumstance and it's not anyone's fault this occurs.
Do you apply all this you've said when talking about Trump?
Yes, it applies to everyone.
Both Hilary and Biden have been in politics for decades. Neither had ever been president before. Being vice president isn't the same as being president and requires different duties. Hilary was the wife of a president and followed him around during most of his duties, so she would be able to learn first hand what being a president is like.
I don't disagree that Hillary had knowledge gained from her experience as a first lady, senator, and secretary of state. If she believes she would be the best president, I would not call her a narcissist because, it's just her OPINION.
So of all people, Hilary seems was better suited than others as a matter of circumstance.
That's an opinion.
How do you know Biden knew more about the job than Hilary?
I don't. I just know Biden had more experience as a senator and as a vice President. In a competent administration the vice president is just as informed and included in all matters as the President, so that they can effectively step in and takeover at a moment's notice.
How do you know Hilary didn't have the experience of governing or knew how government works?
I don't, and I never thought she didn't.
Just about any other democrat that isn't Biden.

And as you yourself said: "He actually would be stupid to run for President if he thought the other candidate would make a better President."

As this video on narcissism explains, clinging to power is a trait of a narcissist.


Your own words condemn him.



Him being stupid is reference to your own comment about Biden stupid to run for president if he thought other candidates would make a better President.
You need to rethink this. I said he would be stupid to run IF he thought the other candidate would make a better President. It's a provisional statement. The FACT IS he didn't run, because he felt he didn't have the passion to do the job. Since in the interview he thinks he would be the better President IF HE HAD THE PASSION, then obviously the provisional requirement that qualifies stupidity in my statement, doesn't exist.
Him being a forgetful, frail old man should be enough for him to step down.
That's a valid argument, but IF Joe believes he can do the job and IF he is the one best suited to defeat Trump, those would be valid reasons to not step down.
The self-defamatory joke could also be seen as deflection.
It could, and it probably would be seen that way by any cynic who projects cynicism. But if it were deflection, then it's even a quicker wit than if it wasn't. The point being that it's a contradiction for a cynic to both claim it's proof Biden is stupid and then claim it's a calculated deflection.
Constantly evoking his dead son's name to garner sympathy.
Well, he talked about this in the video you posted. He felt he would be the best President but because Beau died, he felt he had lost his soul, and he did not have the passion to do what the job required. So, despite his expressed confidence in his experience and knowledge which you see as narcissism, he did not run.

He was grieving then, and he may now be using Beau's memory to pick himself up and do something meaningful in his last years, believing Beau would want that. So, when he mentions Beau, if he is thinking within himself, he's doing this for Beau, then I can see how he can come across as using Beau to garner sympathy for Joe's cause. Even so, that does not qualify as false humility.


How do you know that's what he was thinking when he said that?
I study semantics particular to psycholinguistics. Words are expressed sentiments and therefore they have power/energy. Since a singular word can carry positive, neutral or negative connotations depending on how it is qualified; by using true dichotomies, I can conduct a subjective semantic analysis and thereby discern the underlying intentions, where they are coming from in their approach to the objective truth, and whether they are informed or misinformed.
Do you apply this same level of grace and understanding to Trump?
I understand he is carnal minded and can't help himself.
This also doesn't explain Biden's insults and racist comments, which appropriately demonstrates one of my points about Biden supporters. They just ignore it.

Do you realize I have no idea what so called insults and racist comments you could be referring to? I'm just saying if you're going to say something bad about someone, you need to have proof; otherwise, it's just slander.

There's a firehose of disinformation out there and people get tired of debunking lies. It should be expected that at some point people ignore it.



Could you give an example that you've seen regarding Biden?
I was simply pointing out that a person can't justify slander, but they can justify standing up against slander. Are you asking me to show where Biden is standing up against the wickedness of slander?
I've already provided "convincing proof" to you in regards to Biden. You must have missed the post or ignored it.
As far as I remember, I've debunked everything you've called "convincing proof" of narcissism that was directed at me.
Could you point out the slander regarding Biden? Because pointing out Joe Biden's lies, insults and racism isn't slander, it's exposing evil.
I recall saying you should first prove he mocked Christianity before you move on to trying to prove he's done all the things God hates. All you showed me was one man's opinion that when Joe made the sign of the cross it was Joe's intention to make a mockery of the Catholic faith. That is slandering Joe.
 
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ozso

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Doesn't stop them from lying. There are a huge pool of national politicians with vocational doctorates (JD) from Harvard including ones I suspect you can't stand as well as ones I can't stand.

From Dersh if you look carefully.
It seems pretty clear to me that you automatically reject anyone who's not anti-Trump.
 
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Paulos23

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Current liberalism is to blame for all that I listed.
Nope, I don't buy it. It is too simple and easy to answer these issues and doesn't address the underlying causes. These issues are far more complex just to be caused by liberalism and liberalism alone. Just being conservative is not going to solve those issues.

Take the housing issue. It is too expensive to buy a house for many reasons. Too many people want houses, not enough supply, rents and the cost of living are too high for people to save for a home. There is more behind that: the American dream of having a home on land they own, the dream of the suburbs, and the dependency on cars (another expense). I could go on.

Many of those issues can't be solved by the government, at least not by the federal government. Most of it depends on the local government, and many are not very forward-looking. One way would be to make low-income housing, but that is the feel-good solution that doesn't address the market forces or what we look for in a home these days. In the long term, they could rezone areas for multi-unit buildings and lessen the building codes on some things, but not too much since building codes do exist for a reason.

There is more to it, but I think you see my point. There are multiple causes for those issues and multiple solutions that need to be applied to each one. No one ideology or solution will fix each issue.
 
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ozso

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Nope, I don't buy it. It is too simple and easy to answer these issues and doesn't address the underlying causes. These issues are far more complex just to be caused by liberalism and liberalism alone. Just being conservative is not going to solve those issues.

Take the housing issue. It is too expensive to buy a house for many reasons. Too many people want houses, not enough supply, rents and the cost of living are too high for people to save for a home. There is more behind that: the American dream of having a home on land they own, the dream of the suburbs, and the dependency on cars (another expense). I could go on.

Many of those issues can't be solved by the government, at least not by the federal government. Most of it depends on the local government, and many are not very forward-looking. One way would be to make low-income housing, but that is the feel-good solution that doesn't address the market forces or what we look for in a home these days. In the long term, they could rezone areas for multi-unit buildings and lessen the building codes on some things, but not too much since building codes do exist for a reason.

There is more to it, but I think you see my point. There are multiple causes for those issues and multiple solutions that need to be applied to each one. No one ideology or solution will fix each issue.
Right but in the case of this thread the focus is which party is more likely to start making things better.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Yeah that "convicted felon" line is really being put to use as a political weapon as no doubt was intended.
It’s an election year. You’ll get used to it.

Just who do you think intended this, though? The jury who convicted him? There’s always this air of conspiracy in every allegation from the right. Why is that?
 
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Reasonably Sane

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If he stayed when everyone in the public including the press was removed, Dersh wasn't a member of the public or media. He was there as an invited ally of Trump, like the MAGA politicians and his family. How can we view his opinions on the "validity" of the trial and process as anything *but* as a committed Trump ally.
Everyone is biased. Or are you saying he's lying?
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Right but in the case of this thread the focus is which party is more likely to start making things better.
I’d say it’s not the party trying to place a criminal in charge of the country.
 
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Paulos23

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Right but in the case of this thread the focus is which party is more likely to start making things better.
No, this is a sideline to the thread. The thread is about Trump getting a guilty verdict. People are just turning it into about which party is better.

My point is that no one party has all the answers, and taking the extreme line of one party or the other to address complex problems is not solving or improving these problems. It takes a complex approach in the middle to make things better.
 
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Reasonably Sane

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Alan Dershowitz, Bernie Kerik, Vernon Jones join Trump trial guest list

NEW YORK — Former President Donald Trump attended his trial Monday with a large entourage that included lawyer Alan Dershowitz, former New York Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik and Democrat-turned-Republican Vernon Jones, a former state representative from Georgia and outspoken champion of the former president.

Mr. Dershowitz’s presence is notable. He is one of the most famous lawyers in America and represented Mr. Trump during his first impeachment trial.

He has worked with celebrities and public figures, serving on the defense team for Harvey Weinstein and negotiating a non-prosecution agreement for Jeffrey Epstein, a financier and sex offender who killed himself in prison in 2019.
I knew there was a reason I liked Dershowitz. He seems like a pretty intelligent man and calls 'em pretty well. I'm anxious to see how this plays out. As I listen to "experts" on all sides of issues like this, I listen with an ear to what actually happens to see how it plays out when the fat lady finally stops singing. This is one I file away.
 
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BPPLEE

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Because the way he described jury selection was false. I know you are familiar with basic court procedures and would reject the claim that a jury was chosen by the prosecutor and the judge as Dershowitz made. (Reporting of jury selection also made it clear that wasn't what happened in this particular case.)
I have heard several people say that the judge has been partial, including Trey Gowdy. I have heard legal analysts on CNN criticizing the case. I don’t think it’s the legal masterpiece that some people are making it out to be
 
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