Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness Plan Is An Illegal Scheme To Buy Back Young Votes

[Always in His Presence]

For the same reason that you pay taxes that cover any other services you don't use - there's a net benefit to society. Specifically as it relates to student loan forgiveness, borrowers not having to make crushing student loan payments means that they have more disposable income to contribute to the local economy, they're more likely to become homeowners (and thus pay property taxes), and they're more likely to be able to save for retirement, meaning that they'll be less of a burden on the system later in life, just to name a few.

I pay for public schools, even though my parents sent me to a private school and I don't have kids. I drive my car maybe once a week, but my taxes pay for roads all over the country. I've never used welfare, but I've spent almost 20 years paying for it.

Then let's completely get rid of private debt!

With Bidenomics in full gear - credit card debt is skyrocketing. It's the only way some make it. If we eliminated all public debt - they would have more disposable income to contribute to the local economy, they would be more likely to become homeowners etc. etc.

Sounds like good logic!

Off course those of us who have little or no credit card debt would end up paying their debt - just like the student loans - but hey! it helps the economy - ....... or does it?

 

[Valletta]

For the same reason that you pay taxes that cover any other services you don't use - there's a net benefit to society. Specifically as it relates to student loan forgiveness, borrowers not having to make crushing student loan payments means that they have more disposable income to contribute to the local economy, they're more likely to become homeowners (and thus pay property taxes), and they're more likely to be able to save for retirement, meaning that they'll be less of a burden on the system later in life, just to name a few.

I pay for public schools, even though my parents sent me to a private school and I don't have kids. I drive my car maybe once a week, but my taxes pay for roads all over the country. I've never used welfare, but I've spent almost 20 years paying for it.

Why not decide who is the most needy in our society and pay them off rather than violate orders of the Supreme Court and pay off those with student loans? Why pay off the loans of attorneys and Congressional staff who will make a lot of money in the future? A lot of people are suffering under Bidenomics, struggling to pay for groceries and rent.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Maybe I did not - and it has more to do with a persons character than the institution.

I can't speak for and entire people group - can you? If you take the time and re-read what I said - I was speaking for myself. From what I have read, what conservatives have expressed is that the position is not worth more. In my thinking - how can any sane person believe the position in fast food - dropping fries - making sandwiches is worth 40,000.00 a year, plus benefits (20.00 an hour - full time).

How that can be justified is beyond me.

There are two ways to justify it:

The first is that it just takes a minimum amount of food, shelter, health care, transportation, etc. to enable the worker to provide the labor required by their job. In a functioning market without certain distortions, wages would meet or exceed that threshold. The power imbalance in most labor situations (especially at the low end) distorts that market and often drives wages below the threshold. A minimum wage seeks to prevent that. If you don't understand why $20/hr is appropriate in California, then perhaps you fail to appreciate from your perch in Oklahoma just how expensive it is to live there.

The second was it's justified is by recognizing the fact that the job requires a person to do it. We're not talking about widgets. We're talking about people, and like it or not, our society attaches a great deal of dignity and pride to the ability to provide for one's self. And grinding the lowest wages possible out of workers is demeaning. Your side might try to restrict its comments to "the job" being worth a certain amount (though, as recent threads have illustrated, many don't even bother with that), but in doing so, you're still dehumanizing those workers.

 

[rambot]

I can't speak for and entire people group - can you? If you take the time and re-read what I said - I was speaking for myself. From what I have read, what conservatives have expressed is that the position is not worth more. In my thinking - how can any sane person believe the position in fast food - dropping fries - making sandwiches is worth 40,000.00 a year, plus benefits (20.00 an hour - full time).

I don't know. I've seen folks do certain construction work jobs and those jobs looked WAAAAAAAAAY easier than what a GOOD fast food worker goes through.
A person who screws 3 doors into the door of a Mazda on the assembly line gets paid 30+$/hr because they are in a union.

FF is WAAAAAAY harder than that job. Actually, from what I've heard a LOT of front facing retail jobs suck because people look down on them and treat them poorly.

I'd be inclined to think that there are a LOT of Board room folks who could NOT handle a month working cash at one of their "more difficult" locations. Check that....a day.

So yeah, this idea that a "job" is "worth" something inherently, doesn't really add up to me.

 

[rambot]

Why not decide who is the most needy in our society and pay them off rather than violate orders of the Supreme Court and pay off those with student loans? Why pay off the loans of attorneys and Congressional staff who will make a lot of money in the future? A lot of people are suffering under Bidenomics, struggling to pay for groceries and rent.

It ALMOST could be implied that you would be okay with poor people (or those receiving post sec. that did not necessarily equate to greater pay opportunities) receiving loan assistance.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I don't know. I've seen folks do certain construction work jobs and those jobs looked WAAAAAAAAAY easier than what a GOOD fast food worker goes through.
A person who screws 3 doors into the door of a Mazda on the assembly line gets paid 30+$/hr because they are in a union.

FF is WAAAAAAY harder than that job. Actually, from what I've heard a LOT of front facing retail jobs suck because people look down on them and treat them poorly.

I'd be inclined to think that there are a LOT of Board room folks who could NOT handle a month working cash at one of their "more difficult" locations. Check that....a day.

So yeah, this idea that a "job" is "worth" something inherently, doesn't really add up to me.

Opinions vary.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I hope young people are paying attention to politics. Old ideas are screwing them up.I find it amusing that people support rich people. And don't care about the you people. At least Biden care.

 

[rjs330]

Oh, that's pretty rich. In every single discussion about the minimum wage and other protections for low-wage workers, it's libs who talk about how these folks deserve to be treated better, deserve to be paid better, and it's conservatives who talk about how they're not worth more, how they're lazy or unmotivated, and how they ought to better themselves if they want anything better than what they currently have.

What I see here is a serious disconnect. I thinks it because some really struggle to hear what is being said. Absolutely no one here has said minimum wage workers are lazy and unmotivated. We've all said the minimum wage workers are generally entry level positions. And People don't stay there. Often they work hard at the job they have. At least they have a job and we applaud them for that. Those that work minimum wage will move on and up to bigger and better things. Because they are motivated people and don't want to perpetually stay at their position. It's you guys that can't seem to get past the idea that these "poor souls" need all your help cause they are not competent or able enough to work their way into bigger and better things. In fact your suggested policies would be more likely to force them to stay at those positions instead of moving on and up.

Just because you didn't attend college doesn't make you a minimum wage worker. Most of those jobs that were mentioned pay pretty well and don't take a college degree. Those people aren't dumb. Far too often the left seems to think that only college educated folks are intelligent. That's utter nonsense. The jobs he mentioned are good jobs. Sometimes held by college educated folks along side those that weren't. Guess who's probably better off? The "uneducated" because they didn't get a worthless degree that has put them in debt they will have to pay on for the next 20 years. Who's smarter now?

 

[rjs330]

I hope young people are paying attention to politics. Old ideas are screwing them up.I find it amusing that people support rich people. And don't care about the you people. At least Biden care.

I hope the young ARE paying attention. The leftist way will be screwing them up for a long time as they struggle with paying for useless degrees that didn't actually help them get a better paying job than those that didn't go to school. That's why all the complaining now from you liberals. Oh the school debt is too much. Well it wouldn't be if they actually got a degree that would help them pay them off. And by the way, who's running these higher education places and setting the costs? It's the liberal leftists. It's your "gotta get a college degree" scam that's causing these kids to be in debt.

Quite frankly it's not just the left of though. The American culture has been duped into causing businesses to consider people with a college degree to be "better" than those without. Even though when they hire people they would pay them the same.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What I see here is a serious disconnect. I thinks it because some really struggle to hear what is being said. Absolutely no one here has said minimum wage workers are lazy and unmotivated.

Really? Then what did you mean when you wrote this a few weeks ago:

In my area people who are waiting on tables are either very young. Those who are doing it in their 40s are working the high end jobs at the high end restaurants where the pay and tips are very good. Those working at IHOP are young or if they are middle aged they are the managers or convicts who are entering the work force. There are those also who who have no drive to do better.

There are humans who are like that you know.

There are people who are just not motivated enough to move on to something else. Why would you stay in a career that doesn't pay you well for your whole life? I'm talking about normal run of the mill everyday people. Not those who are addicted or disabled or severely mentally ill etc.

And then, a little later, you said this:

Well I do t know about 90% but the majority of the poor are that way due to self infliction. Bad decisions mostly. Which range all the way from addictions to irresponsibility to laziness.

I also posted other reasons for it as well so I won't list and cover them all here.

No one is holding people back here and holding them in poverty. Except maybe the government.

And then/url]:

Exactly, that's why they need to make better decisions. They shouldn't have a problem unless there are other circumstances such as disabilities and such. There's plenty to be had here if you are willing to work for it.

We've all said the minimum wage workers are generally entry level positions. And People don't stay there. Often they work hard at the job they have. At least they have a job and we applaud them for that. Those that work minimum wage will move on and up to bigger and better things. Because they are motivated people and don't want to perpetually stay at their position.

No, that isn't what you said. That's only part of what you said. The other part of what you said put the people who are stuck there as being unmotivated and having made poor choices.

It's you guys that can't seem to get past the idea that these "poor souls" need all your help cause they are not competent or able enough to work their way into bigger and better things. In fact your suggested policies would be more likely to force them to stay at those positions instead of moving on and up.

How many of these folks actually do move up into bigger and better things? How long do people typically get stuck there?

Just because you didn't attend college doesn't make you a minimum wage worker. Most of those jobs that were mentioned pay pretty well and don't take a college degree. Those people aren't dumb. Far too often the left seems to think that only college educated folks are intelligent. That's utter nonsense. The jobs he mentioned are good jobs. Sometimes held by college educated folks along side those that weren't. Guess who's probably better off? The "uneducated" because they didn't get a worthless degree that has put them in debt they will have to pay on for the next 20 years. Who's smarter now?

What are you talking about?

 

[Always in His Presence]

It ALMOST could be implied that you would be okay with poor people (or those receiving post sec. that did not necessarily equate to greater pay opportunities) receiving loan assistance.

ALMOST could - but if it was - it would be in complete error - on the level of slander. The poster has never said or implied such things you almost imply.

 

[Bradskii]

we would not have effective health care...

Checks to see which country the poster lives. Does double take. Checks to see which state the poster lives. Does another double take. Reads post again. Then looks up 'effective' in online dictionary, just in case it's changed meaning over the last day or so.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Checks to see which country the poster lives. Does double take. Checks to see which state the poster lives. Does another double take. Reads post again. Then looks up 'effective' in online dictionary, just in case it's changed meaning over the last day or so.

Checks whether or not the clerks - account specialist - administrative secretaries - etc have a college education - Does single take and goes - ah.... that is what he meant. Feels vindicated - pats himself on back - good job!

 

[Bradskii]

Checks whether or not the clerks - account specialist - administrative secretaries - etc have a college education - Does single take and goes - ah.... that is what he meant. Feels vindicated - pats himself on back - good job!

If you want your posts to be a little quirky, it's best not to copy the post to which you're replying. Looks lazy.

And that you might have accounts and admin workers with college education (I'll bet you didn't check, but I did - a high school diploma is good enough for admin in your state) it doesn't alter the fact that the US health care system is perhaps the worst out of all western nations, and Oklahoma is 48th in regard to states. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/health-care

'...we would not have effective health care...'

My apologies if that was sarcasm. So hard to tell these days.

 

[rjs330]

And either way, most of those required, less-than-totally-relevant courses tend to get loaded into your first two years. By the time you're a junior, you're mostly taking stuff that's degree-focused

Exactly. Iv been there and so has my wife and a bunch of my kids. One who is a Computer Programming Engineer, one who is a psychology doctor and one who is studying to be a pediatrician. So yes there are a lot of useless things they had to take in school.

All those other classes you and I and the kids took the hat supposedly taught you critical thinking skills? A total waste of time and money. You were bamboozled into thinking that's what you had to do. I knew how to do all that before College.

Did you seriously go to College and think gee I learned how to think critically. I had no idea how to do that before.

Now when it comes to the specific subject you are going to school for, then certainly you learn some important thinking skills in that. It's not like we are being taught how to engineer a rocket in highschool.

 

[rjs330]

can't speak for and entire people group - can you? If you take the time and re-read what I said - I was speaking for myself. From what I have read, what conservatives have expressed is that the position is not worth more. In my thinking - how can any sane person believe the position in fast food - dropping fries - making sandwiches is worth 40,000.00 a year, plus benefits (20.00 an hour - full time).

How that can be justified is beyond me.

Well if the job is worth that much for flipping burgers then being a plumber must be worth at least a million. A psychologist, probably 2. Your doctor 4-5 (and even start complaining how much medical care costs. And don't even ask me how much a CEO is worth.

But man I love m my $50 burger and fries.

 

[rjs330]

For the same reason that you pay taxes that cover any other services you don't use - there's a net benefit to society.

I might buy that argument if the education actually benefited society for the cost. However it's pretty hard to swallow that when the kid graduates with a degree he can't actually get a job for so now we are coughing up money for things that aren't actually doing anything. Just another example of foolish waste.

I thought people who went to college got taught critical thinking skills. Going to college on my dime only to waste it, Well That doesn't sound like good critical thinking to me.

 

[rjs330]

Then let's completely get rid of private debt!

With Bidenomics in full gear - credit card debt is skyrocketing. It's the only way some make it. If we eliminated all public debt - they would have more disposable income to contribute to the local economy, they would be more likely to become homeowners etc. etc.

Sounds like good logic!

Off course those of us who have little or no credit card debt would end up paying their debt - just like the student loans - but hey! it helps the economy - ....... or does it?

It appears that college doesn't provide critical thinking skills after all. Does it. I would think with all that education our government would be running pretty clean.

But they seem to be more worried about getting men into the women's rooms and making sure we use the correct pronouns than a out any of that silly money stuff.

Yup college edjimatated critical think on display.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Exactly. Iv been there and so has my wife and a bunch of my kids. One who is a Computer Programming Engineer, one who is a psychology doctor and one who is studying to be a pediatrician. So yes there are a lot of useless things they had to take in school.

All those other classes you and I and the kids took the hat supposedly taught you critical thinking skills? A total waste of time and money. You were bamboozled into thinking that's what you had to do. I knew how to do all that before College.

Did you seriously go to College and think gee I learned how to think critically. I had no idea how to do that before.

Now when it comes to the specific subject you are going to school for, then certainly you learn some important thinking skills in that. It's not like we are being taught how to engineer a rocket in highschool.

I had the beginnings of those skills, but my college courses developed them, forced me to use them in ways I wouldn’t otherwise have, and exposed me to other ways of thinking about things.

I’d be interested to hear what your highly-educated kids think of those classes and whether they think they were as useless as you do.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Then let's completely get rid of private debt!

With Bidenomics in full gear - credit card debt is skyrocketing. It's the only way some make it. If we eliminated all public debt - they would have more disposable income to contribute to the local economy, they would be more likely to become homeowners etc. etc.

Sounds like good logic!

Off course those of us who have little or no credit card debt would end up paying their debt - just like the student loans - but hey! it helps the economy - ....... or does it?

The government cannot forgive loans that it did not make.