A Republican ideal, work until you die

[rambot]

Go back a few posts. I talked about people being ill prepared to succeed and it’s not their fault.

But it's not only about being "ill prepared", some people just don't have the capacity to hold down jobs long enough to build up reputation/skills/value.

 

[rambot]

I could have kicked back, worked 40 hours a week, and got by but I had a son in private school then college then law school.. I didn’t want him saddled by student loans indefinitely and I wanted a nice home and decent car

Given your job history, it sounds like you also had the physical capacity to do some pretty labourious jobs. Good for you.

But some don't

 

[BPPLEE]

Or perhaps for trusting in the man who fathered the children?

Also, I don't think you know how stupid some people are. It's harsh and it sounds abbrasive and mean but it's true. A lot of people did not have parents to guide them in sensible decision making and intelligent rational thought. A lot of those same people haven't really experienced the kind of deep, connected love that maybe you had and so they don't recognize the toll that children take on a person. Some people are also just cognitively low functioning; perhaps due to FAS or just, bad genetic luck.

There are also, of course, a pool of people who know better or who sHOULD know better. I am RIGHT there with you on those folks.

But when I was working with poor folk in CFS, they INVARIABLY fit the the former column and not the latter; like by a 15 to 1 margin.

Or the men who fathered her children. That’s more often the case, we agree on that and I would say those people are ignorant, not necessarily stupid.

 

[BPPLEE]

But it's not only about being "ill prepared", some people just don't have the capacity to hold down jobs long enough to build up reputation/skills/value.

True.

 

[BPPLEE]

Given your job history, it sounds like you also had the physical capacity to do some pretty labourious jobs. Good for you.

But some don't

I can’t do it now. I had to develop marketable skills that were worth more, and you’re right, some people can’t do that

 

[BPPLEE]

Who gives them that unilateral right?

They don’t force anyone to take it

 

[BPPLEE]

ROFL! Good stuff.


It's hard for me not to curse when I see people living in the richest country the world has ever known; with a level of income desparity that goes into a perversion say to the poor in their own country "You're not poor. Go to a poor country to see poverty". Stop you're complaining because everything is your fault.

If those lives are so wonderful to live, I would heartily recommend you emulate their position. Unless perhaps you'd agree that those lives are hard, stressful, and lead to detrimental health impacts that can further push individuals further in debt, depending on medical insurance.


Seems....what's the word...uncharacteristic of you to think that anecdotal experience carries more weight than data.

Well...the company you keep, I guess.

Of my nephews that have gone to school, they have struggled to find "well paying" jobs (though their degrees were pragmatic [BSc and BComm). Though a decade ago those jobs at those pirates would have been very acceptable, now those nephews have partners and scratch along in an apartment.

@rambot said “If those lives are so wonderful to live, I would heartily recommend you emulate their position. Unless perhaps you'd agree that those lives are hard, stressful, and lead to detrimental health impacts that can further push individuals further in debt, depending on medical insurance.”
If their lives are so bad why do they bring children into the world to share in their misery?

 

[rambot]

@rambot said “If those lives are so wonderful to live, I would heartily recommend you emulate their position. Unless perhaps you'd agree that those lives are hard, stressful, and lead to detrimental health impacts that can further push individuals further in debt, depending on medical insurance.”
If their lives are so bad why do they bring children into the world to share in their misery?

As an officer, certainly you've worked with people in this situation before so I'm sure you probably have your own answers to this. I'd imagine you've seen some of this.

Here is my short list:

1) Some people have babies LITERALLY for the oxytocin hit. Some people are unable to feel that level of love and connection with another being. They love their newborns because that is something they can love. It doesn't talk back and it's just so cute! In my experience, these people tend to have FAS (but that's just my experience).

2) Didn't want to get an abortion...or, as is apparently now probability, they cannot get an abortion

3) Once upon a time, their life had more hope. Now, not so much. Circumstances change. Imagine if that single parent ends up hospitalized or one of their children breaks their leg.

4) Once upon a time, they were a 2 income family, now dad is gone (or mom, I suppose).

5) Babies intrinsically are a sign of hope.

6) Some people just have always wanted to be a mom and don't recognize EVERYTHING involved in that and are then selfish about it and don't think about the child's struggle. But...at LEAST those children will be loved. That's good.

 

[BPPLEE]

As an officer, certainly you've worked with people in this situation before so I'm sure you probably have your own answers to this. I'd imagine you've seen some of this.

Here is my short list:

1) Some people have babies LITERALLY for the oxytocin hit. Some people are unable to feel that level of love and connection with another being. They love their newborns because that is something they can love. It doesn't talk back and it's just so cute! In my experience, these people tend to have FAS (but that's just my experience).

2) Didn't want to get an abortion...or, as is apparently now probability, they cannot get an abortion

3) Once upon a time, their life had more hope. Now, not so much. Circumstances change. Imagine if that single parent ends up hospitalized or one of their children breaks their leg.

4) Once upon a time, they were a 2 income family, now dad is gone (or mom, I suppose).

5) Babies intrinsically are a sign of hope.

6) Some people just have always wanted to be a mom and don't recognize EVERYTHING involved in that and are then selfish about it and don't think about the child's struggle. But...at LEAST those children will be loved. That's good.

#7. I get a check for my baby and additional money for each one I have. I use the emergency room as a Doctor’s office and I get WIC, SNAP and section 8 housing. If my children do poorly in school, I can have them tested and get more checks for that.

 

[BCP1928]

They don’t force anyone to take it

A market where one party sets the price unilaterally and the other has to take it or leave it is not a free market. It's a basic principle of economics.

 

[BPPLEE]

A market where one party sets the price unilaterally and the other has to take it or leave it is not a free market. It's a basic principle of economics.

You don’t have to take it. You have the option of working somewhere else, working more than one job, or getting educated or developing the skills necessary to get a higher paying job.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You don’t have to take it. You have the option of working somewhere else, working more than one job, or getting educated or developing the skills necessary to get a higher paying job.

No, sometimes you do have to take it. Leaving the workforce isn’t an option for most people because they have to eat, so they have to accept some terms before their money runs out. In economic terms, low-skill workers are typically “price takers”, meaning they have to accept prevailing market prices because they have a lot of competition and they lack the economic leverage to negotiate anything better.

 

[BPPLEE]

No, sometimes you do have to take it. Leaving the workforce isn’t an option for most people because they have to eat, so they have to accept some terms before their money runs out. In economic terms, low-skill workers are typically “price takers”, meaning they have to accept prevailing market prices because they have a lot of competition and they lack the economic leverage to negotiate anything better.

There are a myriad of ways to improve yourself and make more money

 

[rambot]

#7. I get a check for my baby and additional money for each one I have. I use the emergency room as a Doctor’s office and I get WIC, SNAP and section 8 housing. If my children do poorly in school, I can have them tested and get more checks for that.

I'm happy she can survive with her children.

 

[BPPLEE]

I'm happy she can survive with her children.

To have them grow up to be the people you described as stupid?

 

[iluvatar5150]

There are a myriad of ways to improve yourself and make more money

Over time, perhaps. But in the near-term, one likely has to accept the wages offered lest one run the risk of going homeless and starving.

 

[rambot]

There are a myriad of ways to improve yourself and make more money

So long as you ha e the capacity

 

[rambot]

To have them grow up to be the people you described as stupid?

I honestly don't even know what your position is anymore

There's no straight line from that situation to stupid people.

 

[rambot]

Besides it's expensive to be poor.

https://walletgenius.com/financial-advice/why-being-poor-is-more-expensive-the-economic-theory-of-boots/

 

[rambot]

You don’t have to take it. You have the option of working somewhere else, working more than one job, or getting educated or developing the skills necessary to get a higher paying job.

The point is SOMEONE has to take it....or what happens? People will not want to work anymore. Someone has to suffer through it. Just because it's not you doesn't mean it should then be justifiable.