A Republican ideal, work until you die

[BPPLEE]

Convenient wording in order to look down on others because of what little they have in relation to others around the world who have less.

Not how little they have, how much they have and for many it’s a trap , living on government assistance and voting for who promises to give the most and never reaching their potential

 

[BCP1928]

Not how little they have, how much they have and for many it’s a trap , living on government assistance and voting for who promises to give the most and never reaching their potential

Nice try, but here and now we are talking about people who work for a living.

 

[BPPLEE]

Well maybe but you still didn't answer it.

Also, not exactly kind to label her children as mistakes.

So she intended to have four children she can’t provide for? Somehow it’s more kind to imply that she’s a moron?

 

[BPPLEE]

Who do you think should decide what it takes for a working person to have more than merel subsistence?

The free market decides

 

[BPPLEE]

Nice try, but here and now we are talking about people who work for a living.

We’re talking about a woman who has four children that she can’t provide for and we don’t know how much child support or government assistance she receives

 

[BCP1928]

The free market decides

According to NxNW, the decision is solely that of the employer. Is that what you mean by a "free market?"

 

[BPPLEE]

No, many countries are richer than the USA, per capita. And many have much better social and health care system.

Maybe in oil rich countries but those people are not poor

 

[BPPLEE]

According to NxNW, the decision is solely that of the employer. Is that what you mean by a "free market?"

A person has marketable skills. The free market determines how much those skills are worth.
Wages are not only determined by how much an employer will pay but also by how much or how little an employee will work for. That’s one of the concerns about illegal immigrants

 

[BCP1928]

Maybe in oil rich countries but those people are not poor

No, who we are talking about are working people. Relative to the overall wealth of the country in question, working people in the US are not better off.

 

[rambot]

In the US, I'd bet 90% of 'poverty' is self-inflicted.

ROFL! Good stuff.

And if you have a cell phone, a roof over your head, electricity, plumbing, you're not truly poor.
Visit a third world country if you want to see true poverty.

It's hard for me not to curse when I see people living in the richest country the world has ever known; with a level of income desparity that goes into a perversion say to the poor in their own country "You're not poor. Go to a poor country to see poverty". Stop you're complaining because everything is your fault.

If those lives are so wonderful to live, I would heartily recommend you emulate their position. Unless perhaps you'd agree that those lives are hard, stressful, and lead to detrimental health impacts that can further push individuals further in debt, depending on medical insurance.

I've seen waaay too many people who are too lazy to get out of bed, and when they do get some money, they blow it on drugs/booze/fast food, and when rent's due, they complain about The System. The other 10% I'm happy to help.

Seems....what's the word...uncharacteristic of you to think that anecdotal experience carries more weight than data.

Well...the company you keep, I guess.

Of my nephews that have gone to school, they have struggled to find "well paying" jobs (though their degrees were pragmatic [BSc and BComm). Though a decade ago those jobs at those pirates would have been very acceptable, now those nephews have partners and scratch along in an apartment.

 

[trophy33]

Maybe in oil rich countries but those people are not poor

Luxembourg, Switzerland, Singapore, basically the whole Scandinavia...

Also, people in countries that are not richer per capita, but have free education, healthcare and livable social benefits may have a safer and "richer" life, even if financially receiving less money. Good public transport and livable cities may mean they also do not need a car etc.

There are poor people in every country. What differs is how it impacts their daily life and basic needs like food, health, housing, education, commuting - i.e. how their poverty impacts their social mobility and their (or their children) future.

 

[rambot]

So she intended to have four children she can’t provide for? Somehow it’s more kind to imply that she’s a moron?

Well there IS the option of you keeping your unkind labels to yourself in that circumstance I suppose.

A healthy tendency is to not kick people when they're down; doesn't really help them so much.

 

[BPPLEE]

No, who we are talking about are working people. Relative to the overall wealth of the country in question, working people in the US are not better off.

You can’t arbitrarily set a standard where everyone who works receives a “living wage “ other than a minimum wage unless you go to communism or socialism.
People who make lower wages are going to have to find ways to supplement their incomes or cut expenses. That’s what I did. I worked enough overtime to have worked two jobs when it was available and worked two jobs when it wasn’t available until I made my marketable skills valuable enough that I didn’t have to do it anymore

 

[BCP1928]

A person has marketable skills. The free market determines how much those skills are worth.
Wages are not only determined by how much an employer will pay but also by how much or how little an employee will work for. That’s one of the concerns about illegal immigrants

A market is free only if both the buyer and the seller have approximately equal bargaining power. That is one of the basic conditions of any free market. What it sounds like to me is that you are arguing for strong unions, and if that is so, then we agree.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Temporarily turning off Netflix and eating at home is 'mere subsistence'? Getting a roommate is somehow an unreasonable expectation if you can't afford to live alone?

You seem out of touch with reality. How about one of the 13.6 million single parents?

 

[BPPLEE]

Well there IS the option of you keeping your unkind labels to yourself in that circumstance I suppose.

A healthy tendency is to not kick people when they're down; doesn't really help them so much.

How are you helping her by implying that she didn’t have enough sense to know it would cost money to have four children?
I believe she is victim of being ill informed and ill prepared

 

[BCP1928]

You can’t arbitrarily set a standard where everyone who works receives a “living wage “ other than a minimum wage unless you go to communism or socialism.

Another red herring.

People who make lower wages are going to have to find ways to supplement their incomes or cut expenses. That’s what I did. I worked enough overtime to have worked two jobs when it was available and worked two jobs when it wasn’t available until I made my marketable skills valuable enough that I didn’t have to do it anymore

Good for you.

 

[rambot]

How are you helping her by implying that she didn’t have enough sense to know it would cost money to have four children?
I believe she is victim of being ill informed and ill prepared

Or perhaps for trusting in the man who fathered the children?

Also, I don't think you know how stupid some people are. It's harsh and it sounds abbrasive and mean but it's true. A lot of people did not have parents to guide them in sensible decision making and intelligent rational thought. A lot of those same people haven't really experienced the kind of deep, connected love that maybe you had and so they don't recognize the toll that children take on a person. Some people are also just cognitively low functioning; perhaps due to FAS or just, bad genetic luck.

There are also, of course, a pool of people who know better or who sHOULD know better. I am RIGHT there with you on those folks.

But when I was working with poor folk in CFS, they INVARIABLY fit the the former column and not the latter; like by a 15 to 1 margin.

 

[BPPLEE]

Another red herring.

Good for you.

I could have kicked back, worked 40 hours a week, and got by but I had a son in private school then college then law school.. I didn’t want him saddled by student loans indefinitely and I wanted a nice home and decent car

 

[BPPLEE]

Or perhaps for trusting in the man who fathered the children?

Also, I don't think you know how stupid some people are. It's harsh and it sounds abbrasive and mean but it's true. A lot of people did not have parents to guide them in sensible decision making and intelligent rational thought. A lot of those same people haven't really experienced the kind of deep, connected love that maybe you had and so they don't recognize the toll that children take on a person. Some people are also just cognitively low functioning; perhaps due to FAS or just, bad genetic luck.

There are also, of course, a pool of people who know better or who sHOULD know better. I am RIGHT there with you on those folks.

But when I was working with poor folk in CFS, they INVARIABLY fit the the former column and not the latter; like by a 15 to 1 margin.

Go back a few posts. I talked about people being ill prepared to succeed and it’s not their fault. As for me my father died when I was 17. I was own my own at 18 and had to depend on myself from then on. I wasn’t taught how to choose a profession and work towards it or get educated for it and I spent 10 years doing different things until I found what I wanted to do