A Republican ideal, work until you die

[BCP1928]

Temporarily turning off Netflix and eating at home is 'mere subsistence'? Getting a roommate is somehow an unreasonable expectation if you can't afford to live alone?

In a prosperous modern country? Absolutely and certainly an unreasonable expectation. Besides, who are you to determine what their expectations should be?

In the US, I'd bet 90% of 'poverty' is self-inflicted. And if you have a cell phone, a roof over your head, electricity, plumbing, you're not truly poor. Visit a third world country if you want to see true poverty. I've seen waaay too many people who are too lazy to get out of bed, and when they do get some money, they blow it on drugs/booze/fast food, and when rent's due, they complain about The System. The other 10% I'm happy to help.

That is ugly, self-serving balderdash.

BTW, I have spent years working on development projects in the third world, often living at the same level as the working classes there, so don't try blowing that smoke at me.

 

[BPPLEE]

You'll note that was a question.

That question was directed at you and not a statement about me. I know you don't like abortion hence the tone.

I don’t know how you would know my position on abortion. I oppose making it illegal because that would just turn people to illegal and unsafe ways to have an abortion and I oppose the ridiculous restrictions that force women to carry to term fetuses that have no chance of survival or in cases that endanger the mother.
I am pro choice but I would prefer that the choice be life for the baby when that is possible. So your gotcha question kind of falls flat

 

[BPPLEE]

In a prosperous modern country? Absolutely and certainly an unreasonable expectation. Besides, who are you to determine what their expectations should be?

That is ugly, self-serving balderdash.

BTW, I have spent years working on development projects in the third world, often living at the same level as the working classes there, so don't try blowing that smoke at me.

I’ve always thought we have the richest poor people in the world here in the US

 

[NxNW]

You presume to know what her situation was when she had those kids.

I could bring up something about abortion, but that would derail the thread. I should point out that I personally know a woman whose husband left her after their second child was born. He drained the bank accounts and left her on the verge of being evicted, so he could chase other women. It was heinous. She has since remarried and everything is fine, but she scuffled for awhile, so I do understand how life can take a turn.

But getting back to servers: if you can wait tables, you can count money. If you can count money, you can get a job as a bank teller, and work your way into an office job at a bank as a loan officer, which could lead to a higher level job paying six figures, even with just a high school diploma. People work their way up all the time, but it takes some effort.

 

[BCP1928]

I could bring up something about abortion, but that would derail the thread. I should point out that I personally know a woman whose husband left her after their second child was born. He drained the bank accounts and left her on the verge of being evicted, so he could chase other women. It was heinous. She has since remarried and everything is fine, but she scuffled for awhile, so I do understand how life can take a turn.

But getting back to servers: if you can wait tables, you can count money. If you can count money, you can get a job as a bank teller, and work your way into an office job at a bank as a loan officer, which could lead to a higher level job paying six figures, even with just a high school diploma. People work their way up all the time, but it takes some effort.

And who is to decide how much effort that should be?

 

[BCP1928]

I’ve always thought we have the richest poor people in the world here in the US

We don't have the richest working poor, and they are falling further behind day by day.

 

[BPPLEE]

And who is to decide how much effort that should be?

You have to do what it takes if you want to succeed. No one said it was easy.

 

[BCP1928]

You have to do what it takes if you want to succeed. No one said it was easy.

Who decides "what it takes?"

 

[JustOneWay]

I’ve always thought we have the richest poor people in the world here in the US

Convenient wording in order to look down on others because of what little they have in relation to others around the world who have less.

 

[NxNW]

Wow. I’m 50 and I’m semi retired. The States treat people awfully.

The article is heavy sarcasm, if you didn't catch that.

 

[trophy33]

I’ve always thought we have the richest poor people in the world here in the US

No, many countries are richer than the USA, per capita. And many have much better social and health care system.

 

[rambot]

I don’t know how you would know my position on abortion. I oppose making it illegal because that would just turn people to illegal and unsafe ways to have an abortion and I oppose the ridiculous restrictions that force women to carry to term fetuses that have no chance of survival or in cases that endanger the mother.
I am pro choice but I would prefer that the choice be life for the baby when that is possible. So your gotcha question kind of falls flat

Well maybe but you still didn't answer it.

Also, not exactly kind to label her children as mistakes.

 

[NxNW]

In a prosperous modern country? Absolutely and certainly an unreasonable expectation. Besides, who are you to determine what their expectations should be?

If your expectations are to cut expenses so you can improve your situation, those seem like reasonable choices.

That is ugly, self-serving balderdash.

"Rent's due in a week, but I've got money in my pocket right now so it's time to PARTY! I'll worry about rent later."

BTW, I have spent years working on development projects in the third world, often living at the same level as the working classes there, so don't try blowing that smoke at me.

So you know conditions are better in the US.

 

[NxNW]

And who is to decide how much effort that should be?

Well, if you get a promotion, it's enough. If you didn't, well . . .

Let me turn that question back on you: Who is to decide what a living wage is? Should a wage be dependent on someone's rent amount? If rent increases, do they automatically deserve a raise?

 

[NxNW]

Who decides "what it takes?"

The person making the hiring decisions and signing the paycheck.

 

[BCP1928]

If your expectations are to cut expenses so you can improve your situation, those seem like reasonable choices.

"Rent's due in a week, but I've got money in my pocket right now so it's time to PARTY! I'll worry about rent later."

Why should the working people have to make those choices on the terms that you dictate?

So you know conditions are better in the US.

In absoluted standards, but compared to the overall wealth of the country in question, very often they are not better.

 

[BCP1928]

The person making the hiring decisions and signing the paycheck.

Who gives them that unilateral right?

 

[BPPLEE]

Who decides "what it takes?"

Look, it sounds like you want equality. The thing about freedom is that freedom and equal outcomes are mutually exclusive.
With freedom comes the freedom to be successful and the freedom to fail. No one is going to hold your hand and make you do what it takes to succeed.
People have the freedom to fail.
I agree that some people have been ill prepared to succeed but when you become an adult it’s your responsibility, fair or not

 

[BCP1928]

Look, it sounds like you want equality. The thing about freedom is that freedom and equal outcomes are mutually exclusive.
With freedom comes the freedom to be successful and the freedom to fail. No one is going to hold your hand and make you do what it takes to succeed.
People have the freedom to fail.
I agree that some people have been ill prepared to succeed but when you become an adult it’s your responsibility, fair or not

Who do you think should decide what it takes for a working person to have more than merel subsistence?

 

[rambot]

Either they can work their way into a better-paying career, or if not, they can work their way into better-paying restaurants. Servers at higher-end restaurants make good money, especially if they can talk about how beverages pair up, etc.

That's not an option for all servers.

Americans don't have paycheques; we have paychecks. The rule is to have a few months of cash set aside for emergencies. If you can't scrape that together, turn off Netflix and quit eating out until you can.

On what basis do you think all these people are eating out?

Sorry if the spelling is so irritating that you felt the need to differentiate but I'm in Canada, so I'll spell it like that. I feel pretty confident that you'll SOMEHOW be able to translate that to "American".

You have no idea what you're talking about.

When it comes to managing finances, you're correct. But when it comes to listening to the struggles of the lower classes in North America, I have a better idea than some it seems.

Boomers were more about pensions, anyway. Most full-time jobs have a 401k or 403b, and if not you can open an IRA. A hundred dollars a month invested from age 20 to 65 adds up to a million dollars. There's your fifty bucks a check.

And by the time they're at 65 they'll need 3million to retire so moot point. There's plenty of renters in America that have seen their rent increase by 200+. So that 50$ is long gone.

I am quite curious how you think most folks are spending their money and what those same people have for income.

Because every time there's a discussion about affordability and wages in the United States the resounding response to concern is "move to cheaper places". Of course this doesn't solve the problem in any really meaningful way. And perhaps I am a bit jaded listening to so many of these people struggle.