Mathematically Speaking?

[Neogaia777]

Can anyone know the outcome of a choice 100% absolutely with the chances or possibilities or that choice being anything other than absolutely zero, or absolutely 100%?

This is for any theoretical being who supposedly knows absolutely everything, etc?

Can "it" know absolutely everything absolutely, without the possibilities being anything other than absolutely zero, or absolutely 100% absolutely, etc?

Discussion?

God Bless.

 

[Ophiolite]

Since I am a being who, in terms of what there is to know, knows almost nothing, then there is no practical, realistic, or plausible way in which I could possibly answer that question in any meaningful way. This suggests that your question is approximately equal to asking "Can for perpetuity gold rigorous also trichotomy older digging faltifap."

 

[Larniavc]

I don’t think so. To model part of the universe 100% accurately you’d have to model all of it. So unless there was a non interactive super user I’d say it was impossible.

 

[Neogaia777]

I don’t think so. To model part of the universe 100% accurately you’d have to model all of it. So unless there was a non interactive super user I’d say it was impossible.

Just so we're clear, you do not think it's possible for any being to know absolutely everything if the possibilities of an outcome of a choice were not always absolutely 100% either way, and then but absolutely 0% always the opposite way?

But how is that a choice then if there was absolutely never a chance of it ever going more than just only one way all of the time always, etc?

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

I guess we could talk about "middle knowledge" maybe, etc? But it's still not absolutely all-knowledge, and would make it much, much more difficult in knowing where everything always is, or are, or would or will be, etc, which also makes it a lot, lot harder to make things coincide, and/or predestinate things always, etc, and probably would also always make it much, much more difficult in being able to fully predict all things always, etc? Since there would sometimes be multiple different paths/possibilities, but that might all arrive at some same "points" along the way, etc? That combined with some knowledge of determinism beyond what most humans can know, etc, might allow you to be able to know or predict some or most things along the way, etc, but just not all of absolutely everything always, etc, at least not without having some possibility of a margin or chance for error, or maybe even being wrong, sometimes always, etc?

But "all-knowledge"? With all-knowledge there is only ever one way anything and everything can ever only go or choose always, etc. Because it's always absolutely 100% one way, and always absolutely absolute 0% the other way, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

Just so we're clear, you do not think it's possible for any being to know absolutely everything if the possibilities of an outcome of a choice were not always absolutely 100% either way, and then but absolutely 0% always the opposite way?

But how is that a choice then if there was absolutely never a chance of it ever going more than just only one way all of the time always, etc?

God Bless.

That’s the opposite to what I meant. But going with that approach: if a being could model everything perfectly or simply being aware of the future (but unable to affect it) then the universe would be deterministic and free will would not exist.

 

[Larniavc]

With all-knowledge there is only ever one way anything and everything can ever only go or choose always, etc.

Correct. With all knowledge on the table there either has to be no interaction by the being if free will can exist.

 

[tdidymas]

Can anyone know the outcome of a choice 100% absolutely with the chances or possibilities or that choice being anything other than absolutely zero, or absolutely 100%?

This is for any theoretical being who supposedly knows absolutely everything, etc?

Can "it" know absolutely everything absolutely, without the possibilities being anything other than absolutely zero, or absolutely 100% absolutely, etc?

Discussion?

God Bless.

If I understand you correctly:

the only think I can know for certain, if I say 2+2=4, that's an absolute 100% correct answer every time. Any other answer is 0% correct. This is mathematics. But this equation has been defined this way, and it works well with the laws of physics. So then, for some option to be 100% absolutely one way, then I have to define it that way. And if you're talking about historical outcomes, then the only person who can define that is God. He would have to be intimately acquainted with everyone, and determine the outcome by His own infinite wisdom, no matter what anyone decides to do. Divine ordination of outcomes is predestination, not determinism or fatalism. In predestination, people have their own "free" wills, which are limited by natural desires and circumstances. In determinism and fatalism, divine will is always imposed (whether good or bad), which I think is not Biblical. God is so infinitely wise that anyone can make whatever choice they want, and God can still determine the outcome He wants, because nothing is hidden from His sight.

But the reason why people desperately want to understand this issue is because they want to be in control. IOW they want to be their own god. Instead, they should be taking heed to the command of God to every person: "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding; in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." (Prov. 3:5-6)

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Just so we're clear, you do not think it's possible for any being to know absolutely everything if the possibilities of an outcome of a choice were not always absolutely 100% either way, and then but absolutely 0% always the opposite way?

But how is that a choice then if there was absolutely never a chance of it ever going more than just only one way all of the time always, etc?

God Bless.

replace 100% by this will reflect the infinity of parallel universes and possibilities.

 

[Neogaia777]

If I understand you correctly:

the only think I can know for certain, if I say 2+2=4, that's an absolute 100% correct answer every time. Any other answer is 0% correct. This is mathematics. But this equation has been defined this way, and it works well with the laws of physics. So then, for some option to be 100% absolutely one way, then I have to define it that way. And if you're talking about historical outcomes, then the only person who can define that is God. He would have to be intimately acquainted with everyone, and determine the outcome by His own infinite wisdom, no matter what anyone decides to do. Divine ordination of outcomes is predestination, not determinism or fatalism. In predestination, people have their own "free" wills, which are limited by natural desires and circumstances. In determinism and fatalism, divine will is always imposed (whether good or bad), which I think is not Biblical. God is so infinitely wise that anyone can make whatever choice they want, and God can still determine the outcome He wants, because nothing is hidden from His sight.

But the reason why people desperately want to understand this issue is because they want to be in control. IOW they want to be their own god. Instead, they should be taking heed to the command of God to every person: "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding; in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." (Prov. 3:5-6)

In my opinion it is the ones insisting of having their own, not already made up or determined by God, free wills, and also the ones who are not getting this, who are the ones wanting to be their own gods.

This is very, very simple, and I just cannot simple believe that none of you are getting it, other than it's just your own rebelliousness, and wanting to be your own God, independent of God, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you have a choice in front of you, and say it's 65% one way, and 35% the other way, then even God doesn't know the outcome of that choice, and is therefore, not all-knowing, and the only way for Him to know all, or the outcome of all choices by anybody, is only if they all were always 100% one way, and 0% the other way, and only then can He be all-knowing, etc. Which isn't a choice at all really since it is already known for 100% certain which way you will always choose either way.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you have a choice in front of you, and say it's 65% one way, and 35% the other way, then even God doesn't know the outcome of that choice, and is therefore, not all-knowing, and the only way for Him to know all, or the outcome of all choices by anybody, is only if they all were always 100% one way, and 0% the other way, and only then can He be all-knowing, etc. Which isn't a choice at all really since it is already known for 100% certain which way you will always choose either way.

God Bless.

And if the possibilities of those choices are always anything other than 100% or else 0% either way, then it is impossible even for God to know with 100% certainty when/where everything is going to end up and/or happen to be in those very next moments exactly, which would mean it would be impossible even for Him to be able to predict those things in those very next moments exactly with 100% certainty, which would make it impossible for him to arrange things in those very next moments exactly, or cause certain things to coincide in those very next moments exactly, or foreordain or predestined anything in those very next moments exactly, and so on and so forth, etc, because he wouldn't know how or what/where all of those things were going to end up/be for sure ever in those very next moments exactly, etc.

I can't believe your not getting this, etc.

It's very, very simple really.

God Bless.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's very, very simple really.

Are you talking about Hobson's Choice?

 

[Neogaia777]

As one who has personally experienced God's providence, and His ability to arrange/pre-arrange/predict things, or cause things to coincide in the right moments many, many, many times, I know it would be impossible for Him to do that unless all of everyone's choices were 100% versus 0% every single time, etc.

God Bless.

 

[AV1611VET]

As one who has personally experienced God's providence, and His ability to arrange/pre-arrange/predict things, or cause things to coincide in the right moments many, many, many times, I know it would be impossible for Him to do that unless all of everyone's choices were 100% versus 0% every single time, etc.

We're not marionettes on a string.

 

[Neogaia777]

Are you talking about Hobson's Choice?

I don't even know what that is, so, no, I guess not, etc.

Either way, I might need some of the atheists to jump on here to help me explain this better, cause I don't know how other than what I've already tried, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

We're not marionettes on a string.

And I don't care about your analogies.

They show a very, very narrow view, and limited understanding anyway, etc.

And are mainly born out of your own tendency towards rebellion anyway, etc.

 

[Ophiolite]

If you have a choice in front of you, and say it's 65% one way, and 35% the other way, then even God doesn't know the outcome of that choice, and is therefore, not all-knowing, and the only way for Him to know all, or the outcome of all choices by anybody, is only if they all were always 100% one way, and 0% the other way, and only then can He be all-knowing, etc. Which isn't a choice at all really since it is already known for 100% certain which way you will always choose either way.

God Bless.

It is not clear to me why you think an omniscient God would be unaware of the outcome of a choice with multiple options. You assert that it is so without providing any argument to support the assertion.

 

[Neogaia777]

It is not clear to me why you think an omniscient God would be unaware of the outcome of a choice with multiple options. You assert that it is so without providing any argument to support the assertion.

If there are truly two possible outcomes, then how would He be able to know which with 100% certainty?

 

[Ophiolite]

If there are truly two possible outcomes, then how would He be able to know which with 100% certainty?

He is omniscient. (Correct me if I am wrong, but many (most?) Christian denomination believe him to be omniscient.)
He stands outside of time. Therefore he can see the past and the future simultaneously. Rather, there is no difference between them for him.