Matthew 23:9, the Title Father?

[65James]

So when I was younger I read Matthew 23:9 and say to myself, oh so all these churches calling leaders, father are way off. But the more I have study Scripture, I find as my High School teacher taught anyone can take a verse out of context. Her proof Judas hanged himself, Matthew 27:5 go do likewise.

So beside the OT and NT passages were leaders often mention themselves as fathers, does anyone know of any other passage which speak of this Title in negative light?

 

[RandyPNW]

So when I was younger I read Matthew 23:9 and say to myself, oh so all these churches calling leaders, father are way off. But the more I have study Scripture, I find as my High School teacher taught anyone can take a verse out of context. Her proof Judas hanged himself, Matthew 27:5 go do likewise.

So beside the OT and NT passages were leaders often mention themselves as fathers, does anyone know of any other passage which speak of this Title in negative light?

No, it's quite obvious that Jesus was not speaking merely of titles such as a child calls a parent his "father." Or, that may be the title of a Catholic priest, or perhaps a name for some leadership position in an organization. That isn't what Jesus was talking about.

It wasn't the word "father." Rather, it was what "father" means in this context, which is to be a substitute for the Lord God. The Law had called all Israel to worship only one God, and that is why Jesus explained that the current practice of relying on religious leaders, instead of on the word of God, was wrong.

Apparently, certain religious leaders were putting themselves above the word of God, and were referring to themselves as "spiritual fathers." But Paul did refer to himself as a "spiritual father," though he wasn't putting himself above Christ. It is in putting yourself above the word of God that is forbidden.

 

[HTacianas]

So when I was younger I read Matthew 23:9 and say to myself, oh so all these churches calling leaders, father are way off. But the more I have study Scripture, I find as my High School teacher taught anyone can take a verse out of context. Her proof Judas hanged himself, Matthew 27:5 go do likewise.

So beside the OT and NT passages were leaders often mention themselves as fathers, does anyone know of any other passage which speak of this Title in negative light?

I've always had a problem with the language of Matthew 23. If we look in other places we see Jesus speaking to the crowds in parables and then turning to his disciples and explaining to them the the meaning of the parables. But Matthew 23 has Jesus speaking "to the multitudes and to his disciples". I don't know if that means he was speaking to everyone at once, or if he was speaking "to the multitudes and then to his disciples" the way he customarily did. And then some of the language does not logically follow. If he spoke to the crowds and then turned to his disciples and said "call no man father...and call no man teacher..." it would make much more sense and be much the same as John 15:15 where Jesus elevates his disciples to friends. They are no longer students but equals.

If that were the case in both instances we would be seeing what we would call a "graduation ceremony" where the disciples were being elevated to their positions. They would then "call no man father" and "call no man teacher" because they had been placed in a position of authority over all men and no one would be senior to them. They themselves would then be rightly called father and teacher but would not call anyone else by those titles. Maybe that's what it is and maybe that's not what it is. It's just something I've always had trouble with.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Is not Jesus using a rhetorical hyperbole? Otherwise what do we do with "Honor thy father and thy mother"?

 

[65James]

No, it's quite obvious that Jesus was not speaking merely of titles such as a child calls a parent his "father." Or, that may be the title of a Catholic priest, or perhaps a name for some leadership position in an organization. That isn't what Jesus was talking about.

It wasn't the word "father." Rather, it was what "father" means in this context, which is to be a substitute for the Lord God. The Law had called all Israel to worship only one God, and that is why Jesus explained that the current practice of relying on religious leaders, instead of on the word of God, was wrong.

Apparently, certain religious leaders were putting themselves above the word of God, and were referring to themselves as "spiritual fathers." But Paul did refer to himself as a "spiritual father," though he wasn't putting himself above Christ. It is in putting yourself above the word of God that is forbidden.

Thank you, that help immensel!

I've always had a problem with the language of Matthew 23. If we look in other places we see Jesus speaking to the crowds in parables and then turning to his disciples and explaining to them the the meaning of the parables. But Matthew 23 has Jesus speaking "to the multitudes and to his disciples". I don't know if that means he was speaking to everyone at once, or if he was speaking "to the multitudes and then to his disciples" the way he customarily did. And then some of the language does not logically follow. If he spoke to the crowds and then turned to his disciples and said "call no man father...and call no man teacher..." it would make much more sense and be much the same as John 15:15 where Jesus elevates his disciples to friends. They are no longer students but equals.

If that were the case in both instances we would be seeing what we would call a "graduation ceremony" where the disciples were being elevated to their positions. They would then "call no man father" and "call no man teacher" because they had been placed in a position of authority over all men and no one would be senior to them. They themselves would then be rightly called father and teacher but would not call anyone else by those titles. Maybe that's what it is and maybe that's not what it is. It's just something I've always had trouble with.

Interesting view never even once thought of something like that, sounds pretty good !

isn't Jesus using a rhetorical hyperbole? Otherwise what do we do with "Honor thy father and thy mother"?

I agree completel!

 

[eleos1954]

So when I was younger I read Matthew 23:9 and say to myself, oh so all these churches calling leaders, father are way off. But the more I have study Scripture, I find as my High School teacher taught anyone can take a verse out of context. Her proof Judas hanged himself, Matthew 27:5 go do likewise.

So beside the OT and NT passages were leaders often mention themselves as fathers, does anyone know of any other passage which speak of this Title in negative light?

Our father is in Heaven ... not on earth

This is spoken by Jesus ... Jesus doesn't lie.

Matthew 23

8But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ. 11The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

The context is Jesus is speaking himself. Its VERY clear.

Many/some of these will apply perhaps not all.

What Does the Bible Say About God The Father?

 

[65James]

Our father is in Heaven ... not on earth

This is spoken by Jesus ... Jesus doesn't lie.

Matthew 23

8But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ. 11The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

The context is Jesus is speaking himself. Its VERY clear.

Many/some of these will apply perhaps not all.

What Does the Bible Say About God The Father?

Thank you for the list.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

This is spoken by Jesus ... Jesus doesn't lie.

He does not lie but as a highly skilled communicator he uses every rhetorical tool necessary to make his points.
I don't know of anyone who had plucked their eye out.

 

[eleos1954]

He does not lie but as a highly skilled communicator he uses every rhetorical tool necessary to make his points.
I don't know of anyone who had plucked their eye out.

We need to keep our studies taking into account the entirety of scripture. Sometimes His communication it is very direct other times the Lord uses symbolic/metaphorical language ... we keep studying and he will help us to understand and discern.