Is there anyone else better than Biden or Trump for President?

[Ana the Ist]

... and why aren't they standing?

Prompted by the last two thread titles:

How would an 82 year old Biden govern as president?

Trump team argues assassination of rivals is covered by presidential immunity​

That's a weird couple of titles. Is the second one real? Did Trump order someone's execution? I haven't read the thread because the title seems blatantly
false to the point where there's no real possibility of it being true. Am I wrong and Trump was recently charged with attempted murder? That's definitely the sort of thing that would need to happen prior to any lawyers of his making some sort of presidential immunity argument for it...and it feels like Trump being charged with attempted murder would make headlines. He hasn't even been charged with insurrection because his words made it clear that he wanted people to engage in peaceful protest.

I don't want to be accused of trying to derail the thread by anyone clinging to some fantasy of Trump committing crimes he hasn't been accused of....but you put it in the OP, so it seems entirely fair to ask if Trump has been charged with attempted murder?

It's a yes or no question so no long elaborate answers are necessary.

As for the question in the OP....I would say that unless some other candidate has expressed a willingness to fire and prosecute everyone in the executive branch who has been accomplice to the rather obvious and blatant attempt to use the courts, and particularly the DOJ, to undemocratically pursue the removal of a political opponent from election....I'm going to have to say "no".

It would appear at this moment, the only candidate willing to remove this fascist and undemocratic administration and their blatant pursuit of injustice and weaponization of the DOJ against political opponents....is Trump. I'm all for saving democracy from the unjust tactics of this Biden administration and making examples of every official, elected or appointed, who has been a party to this blatant injustice.

For the sake of saving our democracy....Trump needs to win.

 

[sprknjc]

What happened to common sense and moral governing? And now highly divisive and extreme policies.

Gun rights and control, 1st amendment right, but no canons for citizens in 1790s, so should be no mass assault weapons like AK15s for citizens now. Extremes now on abortion in Texas, mother's life has to be at the moment in danger and not before whereas New York stste almost anything goes up to the point of birth, though not as extreme as King Herod in New Testament times killing all male babies up to two years old.

Look at governor records for some good, not all perfect. DeSantis it made sense to implement tougher e-verify enforcement and not to indoctrinate impressionable young children in the schools. Youngkin in VA (not in 2024 presidential running) no CRT history in schools and reduced sales tax on food from 6% to only 1% and embraces the good in diversity, in his inauguration which had American Indians involved and African lieutenant governor and Latino attorney general. Haley in SC and Pence in IN had their positive legislative records too, though like anyone, not all perfect. Also sometimes minds change as history changes, like with Civil War reasoning, at least recognizing slavery is wrong.

Governor past records working with divided state legislatures are good indicator records for Presidential potential. It takes hard work, not excessive use of sometimes divisive executive orders which both major parties guilty of, to get things done for the people. The job with Congress is even tougher with way more diversity than some states. Nancy Pelosi, former Speaker of the House, walked across the aisle with Reagan but had to give up after some time with Trump.

 

[Laodicean60]

Of course not! But the newsies are not incredibly invested in getting us out of our two party addiction.

Here is a semi-exhaustive list: Presidential candidates, 2024

Here is a more pared down list, maybe too pared down:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/who-are-candidates-running-2024-us-presidential-election-2023-09-19/

Here's who I'm likely to vote for:

American Solidarity Party

The American Solidarity Party is a Christian democratic party promoting human life, social justice, environmental conservation, and international peace.

www.solidarity-party.org

You don't hear much about Independents. Sadly they're all 70+ years old.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You don't hear much about Independents. Sadly they're all 70+ years old.

Peter Sonski of the American Solidarity Party was born in 1962. You might consider him, not only for his relative youth, but for his positions.

 

[Laodicean60]

Peter Sonski of the American Solidarity Party was born in 1962. You might consider him, not only for his relative youth, but for his positions.

I just read about him on the webpage you posted. You go to any of the candidate websites and they all want to benefit Americans in some way. I like hearing them talk and look at facial expressions and the message and so far the two we have scares me. I wish the media wouldn't choose our politicians for us.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I just read about him on the webpage you posted. You go to any of the candidate websites and they all want to benefit Americans in some way. I like hearing them talk and look at facial expressions and the message and so far the two we have scares me. I wish the media wouldn't choose our politicians for us.

The Media chose Trump as the Republican candidate in 2016 because they wanted a soft candidate for Hillary to beat. Most every other Republican candidate would have been formidable against Hillary so the media did promotional work for Trump, being generally positive about him. This allowed him to do very well in primaries. He did poorly in caucus states. Once he had the nomination the media turned on a dime to bring out their more negative stories on Trump. The idea was for Hillary to win, but she was such a bad campaigner and so disliked that the unthinkable happened and Hillary lost. Trump surprised the Media but Hillary surprised the Media by being so bad. Media epic fail.

It was never rank and file Republicans who wanted Trump. I know, because I participated in a state convention where we tried mightily to stop Trump. It was the primary states that won it for him, and those results are much more driven by the Media. Not entirely, but much more. Trump could not have been the nominee without favorable stories before he got the nomination. Stories that switched to negative right after he got the nomination.

 

[Ana the Ist]

With Biden, you'd pretty much just get more of the same.

So utter failure on both domestic and foreign policy, and a two-tiered justice system.

Which isn't too bad.

It's pretty bad. It's the worst president in my lifetime.

It seems USA's economy, unemployment stats,

I find this sort of funny because literally every president manipulates job numbers to claim economic success.

inflation,

Is still somehow a problem. Prices are still up...interest rates are still up....if inflation is falling it's unclear why that is the case.

GDP etc are recovering quite well when compared with other countries.

Perhaps this answers the above problem. Pushing GDP through high interest rates and prices despite falling inflation.

He's not done anything illegal (OK, he did have classified documents on him),

Wait...

Ok? He willfully  kept and disclosed classified documents against the rules set up by Obama when he was VP. The reason why he's not being charged is he's so mentally impaired it's hard to say that he was actually able to understand he knew he was breaking the law lol.

The charges against Trump should be dropped at this point.

lots of investigation by the Republicans to try and impeach him, but they haven't found anything close to any substance.

Except the informant the FBI found so credible that they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the deposition of, claiming Biden and Biden were taking bribes from Burisma. Something the FBI seems to have decided to not look into. We also have texts from Hunter soliciting bribes...supposedly with his father's approval....and again, the Biden DOJ squashed the investigation. We also have more loans than you'd expect from a father worth tend of millions and a son who cheated the IRS out of tens of millions in taxes....and they aren't in any way connected to the multiple shell companies that the IRS wanted to investigate but the Biden DOJ squashed.

He is getting old though. What will he be like in 4 years?

I think he's going to be like the president in this movie...

Ultimately though, if Republicans hold either the House or the Senate, then they will block pretty much everything,

The Republicans passed a border bill the Democrats have been blocking a long time.

If the Republicans gain the Senate and presidency....the border will be fixed, illegals deported, and relief given to millions of poor black and Hispanic voters who have done nothing but struggle under Biden.

You know, with the exception of all those who he appointed to positions they weren't qualified for.

so that people might look to vote out the Dems and vote in the Republicans...

It increasingly appears that way.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I predicted when Biden was elected that he would not finish his term. However, I expected it to happen within the first few months because he was obviously mentally impaired even then. I'm shocked he lasted this long. But the D's and the left are obviously throwing him under the bus at this point. i.e. I still don't think he will finish his term. So obviously I don't think he'll be the D option this November. I know of not a single remotely qualified D that could run at this point. Same's really true of the Republicans except Trump.

It's important to remember that Jesus is not running for president, so they are all flawed. I will say that, on a side note, I thought none of the Democrats would beat Trump in 2020 and when watching the D debates I was embarrassed for Biden because I felt he had no qualifications for being up on that stage. Yet he won, and then "won" the presidency. The one that scared me, as a conservative, was Tulsi Gabbard, because she was the only real condender on that stage, and would have given the D's real power in the middle, and probably brought no small number of R's along To me, she was the only one with a D after their name that didn't sound like a leftist nincompoop. Seriously. But the leftist D party did not want her. And look where she is now?

 

[DaisyDay]

... and why aren't they standing?

Prompted by the last two thread titles:

How would an 82 year old Biden govern as president?

Trump team argues assassination of rivals is covered by presidential immunity​

It's extremely expensive and time consuming to run for office, especially for president. The funny and tragic thing is that the skills necessary for successful campaigning are not the ones necessary for governing.

 

[Fantine]

It is a conundrum to be sure. While I am astonished by Biden's long record of accomplishment in his administration, completing goals others have never been able to finish, I am concerned about how he would fare during a second term--2025-2028.

On the other hand, I believe that Trump's character, whether his failings are due to sociopathy, mental illness, or outright criminality, is incompatible with any public office. I also have problems with his mental competency and work ethic. His leadership as president was driven by impulsivity, ignoring (or dismissing) dissenting voices, and often putting his own self-interests over the country's.

The third party candidates may not be on every state's ballot. RFK, Jr. obviously has competency problems as well. He is vulnerable to conspiracy theories and most of his positions are not based on facts.

Bottom line: Almost anyone else would be better than Trump. Biden needs to have a VP candidate with whom America is comfortable, someone in whom America has more confidence than Kamala Harris. I myself don't understand the public's antipathy towards her, but it is strong enough that she would not be an effective replacement should Biden need to resign.

As far as Trump goes, he is unlikely to choose anyone who could potentially outshine or outmaneuver him. He would choose an obsequious "yes" man or woman. He would probably look at that as insurance against impeachment. Ugh.

 

[stevil]

I just read about him on the webpage you posted. You go to any of the candidate websites and they all want to benefit Americans in some way. I like hearing them talk and look at facial expressions and the message and so far the two we have scares me. I wish the media wouldn't choose our politicians for us.

I'm pretty sure the Presidents get voted in by the citizens. Everyone, regardless of their job, whether they are in the media business or not get to vote.

 

[stevil]

It's extremely expensive and time consuming to run for office, especially for president. The funny and tragic thing is that the skills necessary for successful campaigning are not the ones necessary for governing.

And the skills and position necessary for winning the primary aren't necessarily the skills and position necessary for winning the general election.
USA should do away with Primaries. Parties should pick their own leaders.

 

[stevil]

Bottom line: Almost anyone else would be better than Trump. Biden needs to have a VP candidate with whom America is comfortable, someone in whom America has more confidence than Kamala Harris. I myself don't understand the public's antipathy towards her, but it is strong enough that she would not be an effective replacement should Biden need to resign.

It doesn't matter who is the Democratic party's vice president, Right wing media are going to do a smear campaign on them regardless. It doesn't matter if this person has skeletons in the closet or is squeaky clean, right wing media will just make stuff up. Like making out the Biden is cognitively impaired, or worrying about Biden having dated his wife before she was fully divorced, or trying to pin Hunter's short comings on Biden. They just make stuff up, to make right wing supporters scared of these people.

 

[stevil]

The charges against Trump should be dropped at this point.

Prosecutors looked and Biden's case and decided not to press charges.
Prosecutors looked and Trump's cases and decided to press charges.
Now it's up to the courts to decide.

 

[BCP1928]

I just read about him on the webpage you posted. You go to any of the candidate websites and they all want to benefit Americans in some way. I like hearing them talk and look at facial expressions and the message and so far the two we have scares me. I wish the media wouldn't choose our politicians for us.

We need to get rid of the primary system. Choosing candidates on the basis of media celebrity clearly is not working out. We would not have got Lincoln, just as an example, under the primary system, He had to win real debates, too.

 

[Laodicean60]

I'm pretty sure the Presidents get voted in by the citizens. Everyone, regardless of their job, whether they are in the media business or not get to vote.

Why don't these unknowns get any airtime? I've seen RFK on youtube.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Why don't these unknowns get any airtime? I've seen RFK on youtube.

The people running the country know that you don't need to know about them. The less you know about them the less they need to worry about uppity voters. Stick with the two parties and they will be fine.

 

[BCP1928]

It's extremely expensive and time consuming to run for office, especially for president. The funny and tragic thing is that the skills necessary for successful campaigning are not the ones necessary for governing.

Another reason to dump the primary system.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Prosecutors looked and Biden's case and decided not to press charges.

A special prosecutor....yes. He decided he wouldn't be able to prove Biden was mentally competent enough to know he was breaking the law.

Prosecutors looked and Trump's cases and decided to press charges.

Right...which is that weaponization of the DOJ everyone is talking about.

If you're charging someone with a crime you yourself have committed....and that someone is your political opponent...

I think we can fairly describe that person as entirely corrupt.

 

[Fantine]

The circumstances are hardly equivalent...

Basically you are suggesting that Bernie Madoff style fraud and extortion is equivalent to stealing some cigarettes at a convenience store.