Handwritten Dogmas and the Letter which Kills

[HARK!]

The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sin and in Him is no sin.

Sin is transgression of the Torah. When we ignore the Torah; that is sin.

We are unleavened and also Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us. If we are in the state of unleaveness, our sin being taken away what is the point of the ceremony to purge out the leaven when the reality is the Christ, The text speaks of the leaven of malice and wickedness in context to the fornicator that needs purged for the destruction of the flesh so as to make new lump. A little leaven leavens, affects the whole lump, Church

I made no such assertion. I we honor YHWH's Passover as he commands; we review the story of that Passover every year; and therefore we know why we honor his Passover.

(CLV) Ex 12:26
And it will come to be when your sons are saying to you: What is this service to you?

(CLV) Ex 12:27
then you will say: It is the sacrifice of passover to Yahweh, Who passed over on the houses of the sons of Israel in Egypt, when He struck the Egyptians, yet our households He rescued. So the people bowed their heads and bowed themselves down.

Christ our Passover is sacrifice for us. We the church, the Body of Christ are unleavened through Christ who taketh away the leaveness, sin of this world.

The Passover is not a sin sacrifice. It's the sacrifice of a threshold covenant.

Again sin is transgression of the Torah.

The first fruits and the ingathering, witnessing and thereby discipling God's children is to not to end unto the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Being anointed through Christ On that day 3000 were brought unto the Lord, And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple (the reality being Christ), and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

None of this answers any of my questions.

So how do you honor any of YHWH's eternal appointed times?

.

 

[HARK!]

it sounds like you think they are literal and never ended despite Heb 10:1-22 and he thinks they are spiritual and is murder and breaking the commandment to sacrifice animals.

Why would you think that anything that YHWH commanded for eternity in Lev 23 ended; and why would the Sabbath be singled out from the rest of the Moedim outlined in that chapter?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why would you think that anything that YHWH commanded for eternity in Lev 23 ended; and why would the Sabbath be singled out from the rest of the Moedim outlined in that chapter?

Scripture tells us the sacrifices all pointed to Jesus Christ who became our Passover Lamb. 1 Cor 5:7. Hebrews 7, 9 and 10 goes into detail on this. The blood of animals does not compare to the blood of Jesus, He is what they were always pointing to as a placeholder, as the blood of animals made nothing perfect Heb 10:4, but Christ blood is perfect to cleanse us of all sins and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 In continuing in animal sacrifices it saying the blood of Jesus was not enough, we need to continue in our fleshy works of animal sacrifices. His blood is perfect and no animal can compare- He took that away at the Cross. Heb 9:9-15. Heb 10:1-22 Col 2:14 Eph3:15

Anway, I am not looking for debate on this I was more curious to know if all Messianic's believe the way daq does, but it doesn't sound like it, so you answered my question. Thanks.

 

[HARK!]

Scripture tells us the sacrifices all pointed to Jesus Christ who became our Passover Lamb. 1 Cor 5:7. Hebrews 7, 9 and 10 goes into detail on this. The blood of animals does not compare to the blood of Jesus, He is what they were always been pointing as the blood of animals made nothing perfect Heb 10:4, but Christ blood is perfect to cleanse us of all sins and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9

The Passover is not a sin sacrifice. It's the sacrifice for a threshold covenant.

You can find a study on that subject here: YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

As there will be sacrifices in the kingdom to come; and the Moedim are a shadow of what is still to come; and all has not been fulfilled; and the Moedim will even be honored in the kingdom to come; as YHWH said that they are to be honored forever; it boggles my mind that some Christians ignore them, yet insist that the Sabbath is valid forever.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Passover is not a sin sacrifice. It's the sacrifice for a threshold covenant.

You can find a study on that subject here: YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

As there will be sacrifices in the kingdom to come; and the Moedim are a shadow of what is still to come; and all has not been fulfilled; and the Moedim will even be honored in the kingdom to come; as YHWH said that they are to be honored forever; it boggles my mind that some Christians ignore them, yet insist that the Sabbath is valid forever.

I didn't say the Passover was a sin sacrifice I said it pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Lamb 1 Cor 5:7

Jesus said there is no more death in His heavenly kingdom so there will be no more animal sacrifices. Revelation 21:4

 

[HARK!]

I didn't say the Passover was a sin sacrifice I said it pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Lamb 1 Cor 5:7

Jesus said there is no more death in His heavenly kingdom so there will be no more animal sacrifices. Revelation 21:4

You read too far ahead.

(CLV) Re 20:6
Happy and holy is he who is having part in the former resurrection! Over these the second death has not jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.

(CLV) Re 20:7
And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail.

(CLV) Re 20:8
And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea.


(CLV) Isa 56:6
As for the sons of the foreigner The proselyte who has joined himself to Yahweh to minister to Him, And to love the Name of Yahweh, to become His servants, Everyone keeping the sabbath, from profaning- it, And holding fast to My covenant,

(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

Do you honor Sukkot?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You read too far ahead.

(CLV) Re 20:6
Happy and holy is he who is having part in the former resurrection! Over these the second death has not jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.

(CLV) Re 20:7
And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail.

(CLV) Re 20:8
And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea.


(CLV) Isa 56:6
As for the sons of the foreigner The proselyte who has joined himself to Yahweh to minister to Him, And to love the Name of Yahweh, to become His servants, Everyone keeping the sabbath, from profaning- it, And holding fast to My covenant,

(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

Do you honor Sukkot?

Yes, I am reading after Rev 20 and Isa 56 etc. that is before the New Heaven and New Earth.

Isa 56:7 is referring to prayers Revelation 8:4

Jesus said no more death- I believe Him.

 

[Gary K]

You read too far ahead.

(CLV) Re 20:6
Happy and holy is he who is having part in the former resurrection! Over these the second death has not jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.

(CLV) Re 20:7
And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail.

(CLV) Re 20:8
And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea.


(CLV) Isa 56:6
As for the sons of the foreigner The proselyte who has joined himself to Yahweh to minister to Him, And to love the Name of Yahweh, to become His servants, Everyone keeping the sabbath, from profaning- it, And holding fast to My covenant,

(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

Do you honor Sukkot?

So, how could forever mean forever if all sacrifices will cease in heaven?

 

[Studyman]

Not anymore!

Not anymore!

Not anymore.

Hark, hope you are well.

When was anyone who "turned to God" "that you were in that time without Meshiah, alienated from the citizenship-commonwealth of Yisrael, and foreigners from the covenants of solemn promise, having no hope, and without Elohim in the world"?

I understand the corrupted priests and scribes created a partition between Jews and Gentiles contrary to God's instruction, but from the beginning God's Law and Mercy were towards the Homeborn and the Stranger who chose to dwell among them.

So then the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" were not from God at all, but from the corrupt priests. That has been my understanding for many years now, and the root of a lot of ridicule towards me.

It seems as to the rest of your post, that you too, have come to this same conclusion. I am just curious why you said "Not any more", when according to the God of Abraham, it was never that way accept in the teaching of the corrupt Jews?

But then again, the Pharisees did run the temple and were pretty much the only game in town. And they were the only avenue to hear Moses, so perhaps I am answering my own question. Someone had to stand up and expose their manmade religion, and Messiah certainly did that.

15"stripping off the sovereignties and authorities, with boldness He makes a show of them, triumphing over them in it."

Perhaps "Not any more" was the perfect response.

Great discussion.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, I am reading after Rev 20 and Isa 56 etc. that is before the New Heaven and New Earth.

Isa 56:7 is referring to prayers Revelation 8:4

Jesus said no more death- I believe Him.

Death comes to and end only after the 1000 year reign.

Isa 56:7 mentions both the olah, and the zebach. I wasn't talking about the olah. I specifically mentioned the zebach. Can you show me one place in scripture where there is a incense zebach?

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And no longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

They won't be cooking prayers in those pots.

 

[HARK!]

So, how could forever mean forever if all sacrifices will cease in heaven?

Do you have any scripture to back that bare assertion?

 

[HARK!]

Hark, hope you are well.

When was anyone who "turned to God" "that you were in that time without Meshiah, alienated from the citizenship-commonwealth of Yisrael, and foreigners from the covenants of solemn promise, having no hope, and without Elohim in the world"?

I understand the corrupted priests and scribes created a partition between Jews and Gentiles contrary to God's instruction, but from the beginning God's Law and Mercy were towards the Homeborn and the Stranger who chose to dwell among them.

So then the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" were not from God at all, but from the corrupt priests. That has been my understanding for many years now, and the root of a lot of ridicule towards me.

It seems as to the rest of your post, that you too, have come to this same conclusion. I am just curious why you said "Not any more", when according to the God of Abraham, it was never that way accept in the teaching of the corrupt Jews?

But then again, the Pharisees did run the temple and were pretty much the only game in town. And they were the only avenue to hear Moses, so perhaps I am answering my own question. Someone had to stand up and expose their manmade religion, and Messiah certainly did that.

15"stripping off the sovereignties and authorities, with boldness He makes a show of them, triumphing over them in it."

Perhaps "Not any more" was the perfect response.

Great discussion.

Thanks Studyman; but it wasn't the Pharisees who had control of the Temple. It was the Sadducees; but both were teaching the dogma of men.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Death comes to and end only after the 1000 year reign.

Isa 56:7 mentions both the olah, and the zebach. I was talking about the olah. I specifically mentioned the zebach. Can you show me one place in scripture where there is a incense zebach?

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And no longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

They won't be cooking prayers in those pots.

When the saints go with Jesus for the 1000 years there will be no more death of the saints or need for sacrifices. Why would one- the saints will be with Jesus. After the 1000 years God will destroy sin and sinners and wipes away all tears- no more death. Rev 21:4

The old earthy sanctuary system came to an end at the Cross. Heb 7, 9, 10 Matthew 27:51 It always had a greater meaning pointing to God's Heavenly sanctuary. Heb 8:1-5 There will be no sacrifices in heaven. What was literal in the earthy sanctuary takes on a greater meaning in the heavenly Temple. Scripture tells us what those meanings are- so we don't have to reply on ourselves for those meanings.

As an example the alter of incense represent the prayers for the saints.

Revelation 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 8:4 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Rev 8:5 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.

 

[HARK!]

When the saints go with Jesus for the 1000 years there will be no more death of the saints or need for sacrifices.

If YHWH says that there will be sacrifices during that time (he does) ; I'm sure that he has a very good reason.

The old earthy sanctuary system came to an end at the Cross. Heb 7, 9, 10 It always had a greater meaning pointing to God's Heavenly sanctuary.

The Pesach sacrifice is not a sanctuary sacrifice. Why digress?

As an example the alter of incense represent the prayers for the saints.

Revelation 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 8:4 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Rev 8:5 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.

I asked you to show me one place in scripture where YHWH calls incense a zebach.

What you provided doesn't qualify as such.

 

[Gary K]

Do you have any scripture to back that bare assertion?

Revelation 21: 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If YHWH says that there will be sacrifices during that time (he does) ; I'm sure that he has a very good reason.


The Pesach sacrifice is not a sanctuary sacrifice. Why digress?


I asked you to show me one place in scripture where YHWH calls incense a zebach.

What you provided doesn't qualify as such.

Where exactly does it say animal sacrifices will be in heaven? I don't think you provided what you think you have.

Why would we have a Passover sacrifice when Jesus said He is our Passover. 1 Cor 5:7

For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.


Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[HARK!]

When the saints go with Jesus for the 1000 years there will be no more death of the saints or need for sacrifices.

Why would we have a Passover sacrifice when Jesus said He is our Passover. 1 Cor 5:7

Feast is a very poor translation of the word moed. Appointment and rehearsal are better translations.

These are YHWHs appointments with his children; and as we rehearse them we gain insight as to what they mean, and what we are rehearsing for. However, this begins with obedience.

If you would rehearse the Pesach appointment; you would learn at least one of the reasons why he has us rehearse this; as he told us to teach our children that reason. He told us that reason; and I have already told you that reason. Do you remember that? It is to remember him, and what he did for us.

In the same manner, as Yahshua honored YHWH's Pesach; he told his disciples to remember him too; as they ate the unleavened.

YHWH called it a memorial. Yahshua called it a memorial. His disciples continued to honor YHWH's moedim long after Yahshua ascended.

As far as sacrifices go, James orderd Paul not only to make a sacrifice for himself, but also to pay for the sacrifices of others, to prove that he was not teaching against the Torah.


(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Feast is a very poor translation of the word moed. Appointment and rehearsal are better translations.

These are YHWHs appointments with his children; and as we rehearse them we gain insight as to what they mean, and what we are rehearsing for. However, this begins with obedience.

If you would rehearse the Pesach appointment; you would learn at least one of the reasons why he has us rehearse this; as he told us to teach our children that reason. He told us that reason; and I have already told you that reason. Do you remember that? It is to remember him, and what he did for us.

In the same manner, as Yahshua honored YHWH's Pesach; he told his disciples to remember him too; as they ate the unleavened.

YHWH called it a memorial. Yahshua called it a memorial. His disciples continued to honor YHWH's moedim long after Yahshua ascended.

As far as sacrifices go, James orderd Paul not only to make a sacrifice for himself, but also to pay for the sacrifices of others, to prove that he was not teaching against the Torah.


(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Where exactly does it say animal sacrifices are in heaven?

 

[HARK!]

Where exactly does it say animal sacrifices are in heaven?

Are you in heaven?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you in heaven?

No. This is not what is promised- one look at the news would tell us that.