A global flood is simply untenable

[Daniel Marsh]

Then, since smelting of metals was at least known, you agree with me that there were multiple "lands" that were affected by the flood, because there were people in those lands, right?

http://sulang.org/sites/default/files/sulanglextopics015-v1.pdf

A Brief History of Smelting & Metallurgy

Smelting techniques and metallurgy have come a long way throughout history. Learn more about the history of smelting and metallurgy and their modern impact.

castmastereliteshop.com

Smelting: Metals & Civilization Overview by Storyboard That

Smelting: Learn about the evolution of metalworking and its impact on civilizations with Storyboard That's guide. Create your own storyboards!

www.storyboardthat.com

In the Near East, stages 1 and 2, and probably 3 as well, were reached very early over a wide area. Many of the earliest Neolithic settlements known, including Ali Kosh in Iran, and Catal Huyuk and Cayonu in Turkey (the last perhaps not even a farming community), have yielded finds of native
copper. Stage 4 is reportedly documented at Catal Huyuk around 6000 b.c. in radiocarbon years. Stages 5 and 6 come later - the earliest reported instance, not yet documented by metallurgical analysis, is a mace head from Can Hasan in Turkey dated around 5000 b.c. in radiocarbon years.
Alloying with tin, stage 7 in this sequence, was a much later development and is seen around 3000 BC. (c. 2400 b.c. in radiocarbon years) in the Near East, the Aegean and the Balkans. It is about this time also that lost wax casting, stage 8, is first seen.

History of Metallurgy

The ultimate cause of much historical, social and cultural change is the gradual accumulation of human knowledge of the environment. Human beings use the materials in their environment, including fire and metals, to meet their needs and increased human knowledge of fire and metals enables human...

www.3mvet.eu

http://sulang.org/sites/default/files/sulanglextopics015-v1.pdf

What does this have to do with this topic.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

So God couldn't use one of her already available eggs? Why not?

Menstrual Cycle: An Overview

A woman is generally most fertile (able to become pregnant) a few days before, during, and after ovulation.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Menstrual Cycle (Normal Menstruation): Overview & Phases

Your menstrual cycle begins on the first day of your period. Your cycle prepares your body for a possible pregnancy. The average cycle lasts between 24 and 38 days.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Daniel Marsh]

ok, what major arguments have been used for a local flood?

Noah's Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About The Event That Changed History Paperback – January 25, 2000
by William Ryan (Author), Walter Pitman (Author)

 

[WilliamLhk]

They accepted the truthfulness of it. What they didn't say was that they accepted your particular interpretation of if. You've confused your opinion with God's word.

God said he "destroy[ed] every living thing" "that I have made," except for the ones in the ark. Gen. 7:4, 23; 8:21 Only possible if the flood was universal over all earth. You are the one who is confused.

 

[Laodicean60]

but it may never have actually happened.

Man, aren't those fighting words?

 

[The Barbarian]

Man, aren't those fighting words?

If it was parthenogenesis, Jesus would have been female. So that's not it.

 

[BeyondET]

Which doesn't address my question. Would you like to try again?
Why create a new creature-type from dust when you're trying to save humankind? And you've already promised to use the seed (not dust) of the woman?

This is something you are just now asking.

Trying to save humankind what?

Who promised to use the seed of the woman?

 

[The Barbarian]

God said he "destroy[ed] every living thing" "that I have made," except for the ones in the ark. Gen. 7:4, 23; 8:21 Only possible if the flood was universal over all earth. You are the one who is confused.

You're a little confused. God used "eretz" for the word translated as "earth." "Eretz" means "land." It could mean "my land", "hereabouts", the land of Israel, etc. If He meant the entire world, He would have used "tevel." And consider that sea creatures would not have been wiped out, the above verse would be wrong anyway.

 

[Laodicean60]

If it was parthenogenesis, Jesus would have been female. So that's not it.

lol, I know you clarified that later in your post. Just learning stuff. I'm more in line OE belief.

 

[Derf]

This is something you are just now asking.

Trying to save humankind what?

Humankind is the what. Maybe you mean "from what?" The answer is death.

Who promised to use the seed of the woman?

God did.
Genesis 3:15 KJV — And I (God) will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (death) and her seed (Christ); it (her seed) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[BeyondET]

Humankind is the what. Maybe you mean "from what?" The answer is death.

God did.
Genesis 3:15 KJV — And I (God) will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (death) and her seed (Christ); it (her seed) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Create a new creature-type while saving mankind is what I'm not understanding what you mean were would that happen? If God can create a human body from dirt why couldn't He create a human body, DNA from the lining of a uterus?


Since we know that's not referring to Mary's eggs, probably nothing to do with an actual human egg other than metaphorical since the serpent is mentioned as having a seed.

 

[Derf]

Create a new creature-type while saving mankind is what I'm not understanding what you mean were would that happen? If God can create a human body from dirt why couldn't He create a human body, DNA from the lining of a uterus?


Since we know that's not referring to Mary's eggs, probably nothing to do with an actual human egg other than metaphorical since the serpent is mentioned as having a seed.

Seed is offspring. Seed is also, in the male case, sperm, containing the sperm from which a child is conceived.

Genesis 38:9 KJV — And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

Women aren't usually said to have seed in the bible, probably because no eggs were visible in the process of conception, but sperm was "planted" in the woman. For a woman to have offspring without a man, a woman's seed, it would have to carry her DNA, else it would be some new creature. I don't doubt God could do it, but that doesn't seem to be what's described in scripture. Rather, the description found in gen 3 talks about offspring of the woman.

 

[Derf]

http://sulang.org/sites/default/files/sulanglextopics015-v1.pdf

A Brief History of Smelting & Metallurgy

Smelting techniques and metallurgy have come a long way throughout history. Learn more about the history of smelting and metallurgy and their modern impact.

castmastereliteshop.com

Smelting: Metals & Civilization Overview by Storyboard That

Smelting: Learn about the evolution of metalworking and its impact on civilizations with Storyboard That's guide. Create your own storyboards!

www.storyboardthat.com

In the Near East, stages 1 and 2, and probably 3 as well, were reached very early over a wide area. Many of the earliest Neolithic settlements known, including Ali Kosh in Iran, and Catal Huyuk and Cayonu in Turkey (the last perhaps not even a farming community), have yielded finds of native
copper. Stage 4 is reportedly documented at Catal Huyuk around 6000 b.c. in radiocarbon years. Stages 5 and 6 come later - the earliest reported instance, not yet documented by metallurgical analysis, is a mace head from Can Hasan in Turkey dated around 5000 b.c. in radiocarbon years.
Alloying with tin, stage 7 in this sequence, was a much later development and is seen around 3000 BC. (c. 2400 b.c. in radiocarbon years) in the Near East, the Aegean and the Balkans. It is about this time also that lost wax casting, stage 8, is first seen.

History of Metallurgy

The ultimate cause of much historical, social and cultural change is the gradual accumulation of human knowledge of the environment. Human beings use the materials in their environment, including fire and metals, to meet their needs and increased human knowledge of fire and metals enables human...

www.3mvet.eu

http://sulang.org/sites/default/files/sulanglextopics015-v1.pdf

What does this have to do with this topic.

It's been a protracted conversation. If you really want to know, please read through from the beginning.

 

[Derf]

Menstrual Cycle: An Overview

A woman is generally most fertile (able to become pregnant) a few days before, during, and after ovulation.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Menstrual Cycle (Normal Menstruation): Overview & Phases

Your menstrual cycle begins on the first day of your period. Your cycle prepares your body for a possible pregnancy. The average cycle lasts between 24 and 38 days.

my.clevelandclinic.org

You realize we're talking about how a miracle happened, right?

 

[The Barbarian]

So, why are we discussing money?

Dunno. Someone brought it up. I'm just mentioning some reasons there was money.

 

[The Barbarian]

Right. "At present". And he suggests we don't go looking for one right now. So it doesn't appear to be a big concern of his.

He's right. There are much larger issues that presently can be explained only in terms of evolution. Although as Dr. Wise admits that the fossil records of whales is one of the greater challenges to YE beliefs, it's not the most pressing problem.

 

[Derf]

He's right. There are much larger issues that presently can be explained only in terms of evolution. Although as Dr. Wise admits that the fossil records of whales is one of the greater challenges to YE beliefs, it's not the most pressing problem.

It makes sense to work on foundational issues rather than swatting at flies. If the results of the flood are shown to include miles of sediment all over the world, the supposed whale sequence is of no account...BECAUSE it is then merely similar-looking animals placed in a certain order after they died.

 

[WilliamLhk]

WilliamLhk said:
God said He "destroy[ed] every living thing" "that I have made," except for the ones in the ark. Gen. 7:4, 23; 8:21 Only possible if the flood was universal over all earth. You are the one who is confused.

You're a little confused. God used "eretz" for the word translated as "earth." "Eretz" means "land." It could mean "my land", "hereabouts", the land of Israel, etc. If He meant the entire world, He would have used "tevel." And consider that sea creatures would not have been wiped out, the above verse would be wrong anyway.

So "in the beginning God created the land," according to you. Which was not the whole tebel. Hear the Word according to the Barbarian.

And God was not being fully truthful when He said He "destroy[ed] every living (lit.standing)thing" "that I have made," except for the ones in the ark. Right. (To further clarify, God defined that which would die would be "all in whose nostrils was a breath of a spirit of life, all that was on dry land..." 7:22)

I'll stick to what the literal Word says, without latter day revisions of men. Especially those who revive the serpent's first recorded words, "Did God really say...?" Ones always wanting to sow doubt.

 

[The Barbarian]

So "in the beginning God created the land," according to you.

That's the word. "Eretz" is land. "Tevel"is world.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them...

Notice that earth and sea are separate entities. Land and sea. Not the whole world, which is "Tevel."

Hear the Word according to the Barbarian.

According to Hebrew in which it was written.

And God was not being fully truthful when He said He "destroy[ed] every living (lit.standing)thing" "that I have made," except for the ones in the ark.

On the land. Eretz. Not the world. (tevel). You are saying that God was not being fully truthful, because His actual words don't fit your personal desires. God's actual wording is how we know it's not a global flood. God doesn't say that He flooded the globe; He says the land was flooded. "Global" is a modern revision by men who were not satisfied with God's word. I'll stick to what the literal Word says, without latter day revisions of men.

Especially those who revive the serpent's first recorded words, "Did God really say...?" Yes, God really said "land", not "whole world." Those who say otherwise merely want to make their own desires into God's word.

 

[The Barbarian]

It makes sense to work on foundational issues rather than swatting at flies. If the results of the flood are shown to include miles of sediment all over the world, the supposed whale sequence is of no account...BECAUSE it is then merely similar-looking animals placed in a certain order after they died.

That won't work. For example, we see icthyosaurs in much older sediments than we find whales. Yet they are similar-looking. We find jellyfish and corals in all sorts of levels.

BECAUSE it is then merely similar-looking animals placed in a certain order after they died.

Nope. And most creationists have dropped that argument, knowing that it's so easily-refuted.