Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples if they don't resemble marriage

[WarriorAngel]

It depends what color, lol.

Unfortunately I use dark background so most of the colors disappear for me.
I forgot everyone else has the light. lol

 

[Lady Bug]

I don't think he's referring to the blessing of the lifestyle, but rather to bless them so they move away from the lifestyle.

With intent to bring them home rather than accept the lifestyle but offer them a different one.

Are you sure that's true?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I hate how certain people want to pretend that people distrust and are skeptical of Pope Francis just because. I remember the beginning of his pontificate that people were excited. I never saw anyone talking negatively about him. He alone has caused this by continuously being vague, unclear, confusing, and scandalous. But then the same aforementioned people will play dumb and act like millions of people are having a shared delusion.

 

[IcyChain]

That's good. But how many other people out there, with weak faith or confused minds, read Twitter and get all mixed up by seeing this stuff? And old Lucy is right there, stirring doubt and befuddlement into their minds, every way that he can.

Those are the ones I am concerned about, the ones whom I pray for, the ones who may be lost because they may not know the actual context behind the controversy, and who don't know where or how to look for the unedited truth.

Highlight it, Mich. That's what I do.

Well, if they want the truth they can read the document. I mean, nobody has actually been able to make the case that anything in the document is wrong. The argument is that it is imprudent, that it has bad optics, that it will be used by people to promote sin and will result in people leaving the Church. That could happen but the ultimate effect of the document remains to be seen. I personally have confidence that it will ultimately be for the good of the Church because the Holy Spirit works within the Church and guides the decisions of the magisterium in a special way. The successors of Peter have the gift of truth and a never-failing faith to assist them in the discharge of their office for the salvation of souls. It's right there in Vatican I and numerous popes and saints throughout history have indicated the same. So I can have confidence in the decisions of the magisterium despite what is posted on Twitter.

Also, as noted previously, people are going to do what they want. The Catholic teaching on ABC within the context of marriage has not prevented scores of married Catholics from using it. My view is that the pope should state what he believes to be true, that he should permit and deny things according to his prudential judgment concerning what is good for the Church. If people disagree they are free to respectfully make those disagreements known to their superiors, but at the end of the day the first see is judged by noone as canon law states. There are plenty of Christian religions without an authoritative pope for anyone who does not want to submit to the authority of the pope.

 

[IcyChain]

I hate how certain people want to pretend that people distrust and are skeptical of Pope Francis just because. I remember the beginning of his pontificate that people were excited. I never saw anyone talking negatively about him. He alone has caused this by continuously being vague, unclear, confusing, and scandalous. But then the same aforementioned people will play dumb and act like millions of people are having a shared delusion.

That isn't how I remember things. I remember a large contingent of Trads protesting him right from the start.

 

[IcyChain]

I don't think he's confusing at all. If you look at his trajectory in the big picture, his goal doesn't look so good.

It's only confusing if you keep insisting that what he's doing is good or OK - because of who he is.

That would make one very confused. It surely made life hard for me in the past.

What do you guys think - what's his end-game?

His end game is the salvation of souls.

What do you think his end game is?

 

[IcyChain]

Are you sure that's true?

It's in the document.

 

[Lady Bug]

It's in the document.

Oh OK. That's good

 

[IcyChain]

If I listen to him, it's to end global warming and youth unemployment.

If I look at his actions, it looks like get rid of people that teach right and wrong, and then turn your head and let the class clowns run the show.

Do you think that Pope Francis is intentionally working to undermine the Church and to undermine the truth?

 

[concretecamper]

The blessing everyone should ask for is: Bless me father, for I have sinned. It has been .......

 

[IcyChain]

I would love to see a poll on that question..................

Well, I can answer the question. No, I do not.

 

[mourningdove~]

I don't think he's confusing at all. If you look at his trajectory in the big picture, his goal doesn't look so good.

It's only confusing if you keep insisting that what he's doing is good or OK - because of who he is.

That would make one very confused. It surely made life hard for me in the past.

What do you guys think - what's his end-game?

One World Religion (---> New World Order)

 

[Markie Boy]

Sorry - deleted my posts. I apologize for posting anything negative here.

 

[mourningdove~]

Sorry - deleted my posts. I apologize for posting anything negative here.

And I did not mean to be 'negative' in responding so readily to your post.
Fact is, there are some persons who genuinely believe that a New World Order will result in world peace.

... I am not one of them, but yes, some do see it that way.

 

[Erose]

Honest question, what about Catholic people that were divorced and remarried? This is another form of irregular union, does the statement have any bearing on their status?

"38. For this reason, one should neither provide for nor promote a ritual for the blessings of couples in an irregular situation. At the same time, one should not prevent or prohibit the Church’s closeness to people in every situation in which they might seek God’s help through a simple blessing. In a brief prayer preceding this spontaneous blessing, the ordained minister could ask that the individuals have peace, health, a spirit of patience, dialogue, and mutual assistance—but also God’s light and strength to be able to fulfill his will completely."

 

[Wolseley]

Do you think that Pope Francis is intentionally working to undermine the Church and to undermine the truth?

Well......no; but I do think that he may be unintentionally undermining the truth, with his vagueness and his ambiguity, plus his refusal to do anything about the wholesale apostasy in Germany, Belgium, etc.; and then of course, there are his (I'm sorry, but let's face it) unbelievably boneheaded stunts like dragging those "Pachamama" idols into St. Peter's Basilica. I'd like to think that that was the man doing it and not the Vicar, but either way, that was just plain dumb.

It all adds up to the casual observer exactly like those so-called "religious education" classes Catholic kids got in the 1970s: "All you need to know is that God is your special buddy, and you should try to be a good person, okay? Don't worry about the rest of that stuff. Let's all make a felt banner!"

 

[Erose]

I hate how certain people want to pretend that people distrust and are skeptical of Pope Francis just because. I remember the beginning of his pontificate that people were excited. I never saw anyone talking negatively about him. He alone has caused this by continuously being vague, unclear, confusing, and scandalous. But then the same aforementioned people will play dumb and act like millions of people are having a shared delusion.

I think that the issue here is because the Vatican under Pope Francis, and he himself, have issue documents and statements that are confusing as all get out, but it does create a built-in expectation of confusion.

I don't read the news concerning Catholic things. I go to the source, if possible, to get my information, so I read this document more than once to make sure I understood it; and the funny thing is Cardinal Fernandez did a really good job writing this document, at least I understand it pretty well. Maybe he could have been more concise in certain matters, maybe provide examples of what he means by certain declarations.

But the funny thing is this document says TWICE that the Church does not have the power to bless same sex unions. Twice! And what are the headlines? The Church can now bless same sex unions.

When it comes to this document it isn't the Vatican sowing confusion. It is the Catholic media and pundits that are doing that. And sadly, the damage they cause will be greater than what they are gripping about. But whatever you got to do to get clicks.

 

[IcyChain]

Well......no; but I do think that he may be unintentionally undermining the truth, with his vagueness and his ambiguity,

I do not find him to be particularly vague or ambiguous. Maybe some folks should read him more instead of jumping onto CNN or the latest Twitter feed. I mean, in this very thread we had tons of people hemming and hawing about how terrible his decision was, and it appears that many of them had not even read the document.

plus his refusal to do anything about the wholesale apostasy in Germany, Belgium, etc.;

He has been dealing with that situation. Here is some news on that:

Vatican draws line on women’s ordination and homosexuality in new letter to German bishops

The letter also warned of potential disciplinary consequences for anyone defying Church teaching.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

and then of course, there are his (I'm sorry, but let's face it) unbelievably boneheaded stunts like dragging those "Pachamama" idols into St. Peter's Basilica. I'd like to think that that was the man doing it and not the Vicar, but either way, that was just plain dumb.

The statute in the ceremony was not an idol. I am surpised to find Catholics accusing other Catholics in that ceremony as being idolaters without even attempting to understand the culture and the context of the ceremony. Rash-judgment is a sin, lest we forget.

"Pachamama" Fiasco: Hysterical Reactionaryism, as Usual

My current position is that the Pachamama controversy is the usual tempest-in-a-teapot / much ado about nothing. I'm ready to assert that no idolatry took place in this instance at all.

www.patheos.com

It all adds up to the casual observer exactly like those so-called "religious education" classes Catholic kids got in the 1970s: "All you need to know is that God is your special buddy, and you should try to be a good person, okay? Don't worry about the rest of that stuff. Let's all make a felt banner!"

Well, maybe we should stop being casual observers and investigate the truth carefully.

 

[LizaMarie]

"This new doctrine and policy will not placate the liberals,who will not be satisfied until the Catholic Church affirms and priests
perform same sex marriages, and it will infuriate the conservatives who understand full well what is happening." Allbert Mohler Jr.
Theology President Southern Baptist Seminary article in World Magazine.

I personally add I saw almost the same exact thing in the ELCA Ibelonged to, both on abortion and marriage, in the '90's.
Yes I know the ELCA is not the RCC, and does not have sacred tradition and a Magesterium. But what do you think?

 

[IcyChain]

I think that the issue here is because the Vatican under Pope Francis, and he himself, have issue documents and statements that are confusing as all get out, but it does create a built-in expectation of confusion.

I don't read the news concerning Catholic things. I go to the source, if possible, to get my information, so I read this document more than once to make sure I understood it; and the funny thing is Cardinal Fernandez did a really good job writing this document, at least I understand it pretty well. Maybe he could have been more concise in certain matters, maybe provide examples of what he means by certain declarations.

But the funny thing is this document says TWICE that the Church does not have the power to bless same sex unions. Twice! And what are the headlines? The Church can now bless same sex unions.

When it comes to this document it isn't the Vatican sowing confusion. It is the Catholic media and pundits that are doing that. And sadly, the damage they cause will be greater than what they are gripping about. But whatever you got to do to get clicks.

I think there is a whole industry based on creating controversy around the pope. People sowing division based on misinformation to put money in their pockets and a sort of personal pride that wants to usurp the pope's authority. The so-called liberals and the so-called rad-trads appear to be two sides of the same coin in this respect, at least to me. But there are folks in both camps who mean well but are simply in error.

I think we have a pope who is much more in the public eye than previous popes. Perhaps this trend of the "famous pope" really started with JP2. There are pros and cons to that. Francis's teachings are being misconstrued, but at the same time people are paying attention.