Baptism is a work.

[Guojing]

That makes sense because many people (and I'm not accusing him of this) who believe in Sola Scriptura believe that through prayer, they can interpret the New Testament perfectly. That's why I always point out that by going it alone, we have developed 100,000 different denominations, all having their own interpretation of scripture. It's one of the reasons I joined the first Church established by Christ.

For example, during the Reformation there were distinct differences between Calvin's interpretation of scripture and Arminius' interpretation. Both church leaders (or really founders) read the same scripture coming to completely different conclusions (that being predestination vs. free will). I do respect many Berians' interpretations because from my understanding they study the writings of the early Church Fathers.

So far, all the Catholics I have encountered consider Paul to be merely repeating what Jesus said in his first coming.

Thus, they will interpret what Paul is actually saying, thru the words of Jesus based on how they interpret the latter.

Would you consider yourself as doing that as well?

 

[rturner76]

All your church did was collect them and arrange them, that's it.

While approving which scriptures would and would not be included. I don't know if ou forgot but the Churchof Rome was founded by St Peter whom Jesus referred to a "The Rock." So whatever your own mind has lead you to believe based on the Scripture of the Catholic Church, try to keep in mind that even the 100.000 differing churches of Protestantism all are rooted in Catholicism. It's just a matter of what individuals with their own interpretations ofscripture chose to believe and not believe from what Jesus' Apostles taught.

And as proud of your "church building" that you might be, it has quite the murderous past that all the rest of the denominations don't.

Take a look at European history and see how the Church of England massacred monks and Priests, Also how the Churches of Calvin, Luther, and Arminius expelled members of the First Church from their countries. Then you may understand the glass house YOU live in while you throw stones. My pride is not based on my own obedience or understanding od scripture like the followers of Sola Scripture take pride in their personal understanding of scripture. If I do convey that I have pride, it is likely because I belong to the Church that Christ himself founded and not some guy who picked up a Catholic-approved Bible and gleaned a unique understanding of it based on their own mind and not the mind of Jesus and his Apostles.

Have a think on who taught you what you think you know. Is it based on a 2000+ tradition or the personal opinion of "some guy?"

 

[rturner76]

So far, all the Catholics I have encountered consider Paul to be merely repeating what Jesus said in his first coming.

Thus, they will interpret what Paul is actually saying, thru the words of Jesus based on how they interpret the latter.

Would you consider yourself as doing that as well?

I consider myself gleaning what I can about salvation from Paul while knowing that St Peter was the one who Jesus passed the leadership of the universal Church. Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles. One thing I do know is that though Paul was inspired by God to do his work, Peter sat at the feet of Jesus Christ and learned directly from him in person. While both were effective, especially Paul converting masses of Gentiles, St Peter was chosen by Christ to hold the keys to the kingdom. Peter founded the Church which now has one billion+ faithful souls.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#1 I just wrote , why BAPTISM is so mis-understood , from Israel too now .

#2 Many say BAPTISM save , as in Mark 16:16 , but when you see the Greek word BAPTISM // BAPTIZO does it always mean WATER .

#3 A good example is in Acts 1:5 , For John indeed BAPTIZED // BAPTIZO with WATER .

#4 But you will be BAPTIZED with HOLY SPIRIT not many of THESE days after .

#5 Is number 3 , a WORK ?

#6 Or is number 4 a WORK ?

#7 The Greek word WORK // ERGON has many meanings ,

#8 Then their are NOUNS and VERBS to consider of what WORK means ?

#9 In 2 Thess 1:11 you have the Greek words , WORK // ERGON is a NOUN in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , is in the NEUTER , meaning MALE OR FEMALE . '

#10 The Greek WORD // ERGON can mean , an Act , Deed , or Enterprise , is just the beginning .

#11 And here the Greek word WORK // ERGON is connected to FAITH .

#12 FAITH // PISTIS a NOUN , is in the GENTIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .

#13 So is FAITH a WORK ?


dan p

I speak, read, and write English. I am not from Greece and it is not my native tongue so as to begin to understand Kione Greek. I say this because a Greek grammarian says 1 John 5:7 should be in the text or there is a grammar error. But most Modern scholars don’t know this because they are not qualified. So please don’t pretend like you know Kione Greek. My points were from the English Bible. So that is where you should begin.

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't know if ou forgot but the Churchof Rome was founded by St Peter whom Jesus referred to a "The Rock." So whatever your own mind has lead you to believe based on the Scripture of the Catholic Church, try to keep in mind that even the 100.000 differing churches of Protestantism all are rooted in Catholicism.

My church has nothing to do with Catholicism. And to be honest, there's no proof that Peter started your denomination. I know it sounds good to say it, but there really is no proof that he was somehow the first pope.

Take a look at European history and see how the Church of England massacred monks and Priests, Also how the Churches of Calvin, Luther, and Arminius expelled members of the First Church from their countries. Then you may understand the glass house YOU live in while you throw stones. My pride is not based on my own obedience or understanding od scripture like the followers of Sola Scripture take pride in their personal understanding of scripture. If I do convey that I have pride, it is likely because I belong to the Church that Christ himself founded and not some guy who picked up a Catholic-approved Bible and gleaned a unique understanding of it based on their own mind and not the mind of Jesus and his Apostles.

Have a think on who taught you what you think you know. Is it based on a 2000+ tradition or the personal opinion of "some guy?"

I know you would love to overlook your denominations murderous past, but it is easily googled.

 

[Guojing]

I consider myself gleaning what I can about salvation from Paul while knowing that St Peter was the one who Jesus passed the leadership of the universal Church. Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles. One thing I do know is that though Paul was inspired by God to do his work, Peter sat at the feet of Jesus Christ and learned directly from him in person. While both were effective, especially Paul converting masses of Gentiles, St Peter was chosen by Christ to hold the keys to the kingdom. Peter founded the Church which now has one billion+ faithful souls.

Could you have gotten the salvation gospel from Peter since, in your view, "Peter sat at the feet of Jesus Christ and learned directly from him in person"?

In your view, what makes Paul more suitable to learn about salvation?

 

[ARBITER01]

Peter founded the Church which now has one billion+ faithful souls.

You talk so prideful of your denomination, but it will be overtaken shortly,...

How Pentecostalism is reshaping America and the world

With 600 million followers, the evangelical born-again Christian movement is deep-pocketed and tech-savvy - and it has big ambitions to reform the society in which we live.

www.afr.com

With 600 million followers globally, the Pentecostal movement is shredding traditional religions. In Brazil, which was once considered the most Catholic country on Earth, over 30 per cent of the population now describe themselves as evangelicals, most of whom are Pentecostals.

It’s predicted that by 2032 they will outnumber those who identify as Catholics. Globally, the number of practising Pentecostals is predicted to rise to 1 billion by 2050, that’s one in eight people on the planet.

“In just over a century since its founding, Pentecostalism has grown from a spontaneous outpouring of faith at a small church in downtown Los Angeles to become possibly the fastest-growing religion on Earth,” writes Elle Hardy in her book Beyond Belief: How Pentecostal Christianity is taking over the world.

So much for antiquity.

 

[rturner76]

My church has nothing to do with Catholicism. And to be honest, there's no proof that Peter started your denomination. I know it sounds good to say it, but there really is no proof that he was somehow the first pope.

Well, if you believe that the only authority is your personal interpretation, you would know Bible history and acknowledge the fact that it was the Catholic Church who approved and verified exactly what writings would be considered appropriate. Whatever fly by bight denomination you belong to could only accept what they like and what they reject from the Catholic Bible at a minimum of 15,000 years AFTER The Catholic Church put together The New Testament that you assume any Tom, Dick, or Harry has the knowledge to interpret properly. Maybe you could let me know whose interpretation of the New Testament is viable.

Would it be the Lutheran version, the Calvinist version, the Zwingili version, the Methodist version, The Jehova's Witness version, the Seventh Day Adventist version, the Episcopalian version, the Pentacostal version, the Mormon interpretation, the Church of England version (which the foundation of had an untold number of Priests, Bishops, and parishinors murdreed) the United Church of Christ, the Presbyertiarian Church, Anabaptist, Baptist, Quakers, Southern Baptist, American Baptist, Progerssive Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Church of the Nazeriene, United Church of Christ, Anabaptist, Reformed, Friends, Evangelicals, Evangelical Baptist (if non-black)United Baptist ChurchEvangelical Free BaptistCowboy Church BaptistPentecostal Baptist (if non-black)Traditional Baptist (if non-black)Ethnic Baptist (if non-black and born again)Baptist, not further specified (if non-black and born again)Baptist, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black and born again)Congregational MethodistEvangelicalMethodistIndependentMethodist (if non-black)Churches of Christ in Christian UnionSouthern Methodist ChurchOther ethnic Methodist (if non-black and born again)Methodist, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black and born again)Methodist, not further specified (inon-black and born again)Nondenominational evangelicalNondenominational fundamentalist
Nondenominational charismaticInterdenominational (if born again)Community church (if born again)Nondenominational Protestant
Nondenominational ChristianFederated or union church (if born again)Association of Bridge Churches
Ethnic nondenominational (if non-black and born again)Electronic ministriesNondenominational, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black and born again)Nondenominational, not further specified (if non-black and born again)
Lutheran Church-Missouri SynodLutheran Church-Wisconsin SynodLutheran BrethrenChurch of the Lutheran ConfessionFree LutheranApostolic Lutheran Church in AmericaLutheran Congregations in Mission for ChristNorth American Lutheran ChurchLutheran Church of the ReformationConservative LutheranEthnic Lutheran (if born again)Lutheran, ambiguous affiliation (if born again)Lutheran, not further specified (if born again)Presbyterian Church in America
Associate Reformed PresbyterianCumberland Presbyterian ChurchOrthodox PresbyterianEvangelical PresbyterianReformed PresbyterianCongregational PresbyterianBible Presbyterian ChurchConservative Presbyterian ChurchIndependent PresbyterianCovenant Presbyterian ChurchECO: A Covenant Order of Evangelical PresbyteriansCharismatic PresbyterianEthnic Presbyterian (if born again)Presbyterian, ambiguous affiliation (if born again)Presbyterian, not further specified (if born again)
Assemblies of GodChurch of God (Cleveland, Tenn.)Four Square Gospel (Four Square)Pentecostal Church of GodPentecostal Holiness ChurchChurch of God of the Apostolic FaithAssembly of Christian ChurchesChurch of God of ProphecyVineyard FellowshipOpen Bible Standard ChurchesFull Gospel (if non-black)Calvary Chapel
Apostolic Pentecostal (if non-black)Nondenominational, independent Pentecostal (if non-black)Missionary Church
Elim FellowshipInternational Pentecostal Church of ChristEvangelical PentecostalChurch of God of KentuckyCharismatic (if non-black)Home church (if non-black)International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal ChurchOther ethnic Pentecostal (if non-black)Electronic ministries (if non-black)Pentecostal, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black)
Pentecostal, not further specified (if non-black)Anglican Orthodox Church
Evangelical Anglican/EpiscopalianAnglican/Episcopalian, ambiguous affiliation (if born again)Anglican/Episcopalian, not further specified (if born again)Church of ChristChristian Churches and Churches of Christ
Restorationist, ambiguous affiliation (if born again)Restorationist, not further specified (if born againConservative Congregational Christian
National Association of Congregational Christian ChurchesEvangelical CongregationalIndependent Congregational ChurcEthnic Congregationalist (if born again)Congregationalist, ambiguous affiliation (if born again)Congregationalist, not further specified (if born again)Wesleyan ChurchFree Methodist ChurchChristian and Missionary AllianceChurch of God (Anderson, Ind.)Salvation ArmyWesleyan Methodist ChurchPilgrim Holiness ChurchFree HolinessHoliness, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black)Holiness, not further specified (if non-black)
Sovereign GraceEvangelical ReformedIndependent ReformedReformed Church in the United States (German Reformed)CalvinistProtestant Reformed ChurchReformed, ambiguous affiliation (if born again)Reformed, not further specified (if born again)
Advent ChristianWorldwide Church of God/Grace Communion InternationalChurch of God General ConferenceChurch of God (Seventh-day)United Church of GodLiving Church of GodGrace Brethren ChurchBrethren in ChrisMennonite BrethrenAmishUnited Brethren in Christ, United BrethrenSocial BrethrenBrethren, not further specified (if born again)Mennonite, not further specifiedAnabaptist, not further specified (if born again)Evangelical Covenant Church (covenant)Evangelical Free Church (free church)“Evangelical”“Born again,” “Bible believers,” Evangelical Bible ChurchPlymouth BrethrenBible, Gospel, Missionary ChurchesFundamentalist, not further specified“Charismatic,” “spirit filled”Electronic ministries
Home church (if non-black and born again)Mixed Protestants (if non-black and born again)Other Protestant non-specific (if non-black and born again)American Baptist Churches USACooperative Baptist Fellowship; Baptist AllianceLiberal/progressive/moderate BaptistEthnic Baptist (if non-black and not born again)Baptist, not further specified (if non-black and not born again)Baptist, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black and not born again)United Methodist ChurchEvangelical United BrethrenMethodist Episcopal ChurchMethodist Protestant ChurchOther ethnic Methodist (if non-black and not born again)Methodist, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black and not born again)Methodist, not further specified (if non-black and not born again)Interdenominational (if not born again)Community Church (if not born again)Federated or union church (if not born again)Emergent ChurchLiberal/moderate nondenominationalEthnic nondenominational (if non-black and not born again)Nondenominational, ambiguous affiliation (if non-black and not born again)Nondenominational, not further specified (if non-black and not born again)Evangelical Lutheran Church in AmericaAmerican Lutheran Church/Lutheran Church in AmericaEthnic Lutheran (if not born again)Lutheran, ambiguous affiliation (if not born again)
Lutheran, not further specified (if not born again)Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)Scotch PresbyterianUnited PresbyterianPresbyterian Church of CanadaSouthern Presbyterian; Presbyterian Church in the United States
Ethnic Presbyterian (if not born again)Presbyterian, ambiguous affiliation (if not born again)Presbyterian, not further specified (if not born again)
Episcopal ChurchAnglican Church (Church of England)Church of IrelandAnglican/Episcopalian, ambiguous affiliation (if not born again)
Anglican/Episcopalian, not further specified (if not born again)
Disciples of ChristRestorationist, ambiguous affiliation (if not born again)Restorationist, not further specified (if not born again)United Church of ChristLiberal/progressive CongregationalEthnic Congregationalist (if not born again)
Congregationalist, ambiguous affiliation (if not born again)Congregationalist, not further specified (if not born again)Reformed Church in America (Dutch Reformed)Free Hungarian Reformed ChurchReformed, ambiguous affiliation (if not born again)Reformed, not further specified (if not born again)Church of the BrethrenMoravian ChurchBrethren, not further specified (if not born again)Anabaptist, not further specified (if not born again)Society of FriendsFriends/Quaker not further specifieHome church (if non-black and not born again)Mixed Protestants (if non-black and not born again)“Ecumenical”United Church of CanadaMetropolitan Community ChurchOther Protestant non-specific (if non-black and not born again)National Baptist ConventionProgressive Baptist Conventionnternational Baptistndependent Baptist (if black)Missionary Baptist (if black)Baptist Bible Fellowship (if black)Primitive Baptist (if black)Full Gospel Baptist (if black)Evangelical Baptist (if black)Pentecostal Baptist (if black)Traditional Baptist (if black)Black BaptisOther ethnic Baptist (ifblack)Electronic Baptist ministries (if black)Baptist, not further specified (ifblack)Baptist, ambiguous affiliation (if black)African Methodist EpiscopalAfrican Methodist Episcopal ZionChristian Methodist Episcopal Church
Independent Methodist (if black)Black MethodistMethodist, ambiguous affiliation (if black)Methodist, not further specified (if black)Black nondenominationalOther ethnic nondenominational (if black)Nondenominational, ambiguous affiliation (if black)Nondenominational, not further specified (if black)Church of God in ChristUnited Pentecostal Church InternationalUnited House of Prayer for All PeopleBlack PentecostalApostolic Pentecostal (if black)New Testament Church of GodNondenominational, independent Pentecostal (if black)Full Gospel (if blackDeeper Life Bible Church/Deeper Christian Life MinistryOther ethnic Pentecostal (if black)Electronic ministries (if black)Pentecostal, ambiguous affiliation (if black)Pentecostal, not further specified (if black)Independent HolinessApostolic Holiness ChurchHoliness BaptistFire Baptized Holiness Church of GodChurch of the Living GodBlack HolinessHoliness, ambiguous affiliation (if black)Holiness, not further specified (if black)Home church (if black)Mixed Protestants (if black)Other Protestant non-specific (if black)

I know you would love to overlook your denominations murderous past, but it is easily googled.

So which of these thousands of denominations have the fullness of truth when they interpret the Bible in thousands of different ways? This is just American Protestantism. Can you zero in on one of these denominations that preach the truth? Doubt it.

However, there is one true and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and built by his direct Disciples who sat under his feet. Can any one of these Churches claim that they know better than Jesus, and/or first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother;James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

These are the founders of the on true and Apostolic Church. The other thousands of churches I listed were founded by some guy whose personal interpretation of the Bible differed from another guy who founded some other church based on his interpretation.

It has been written by the original members of the Catholic (which means universal) Church and put together in a document called The New Testament by other Bishops of The Catholic Church. Who is more qualified to teach it? The guy who founded the Scotch United Presbyterian Church or Jesus Christ? Whose church is guaranteed to be founded on Scriptural truth? You and your interpretation of scripture or Jesus'?

EDIT" I apologize for posting such a "text wall" but I wanted to illustrate how insignificant your denomination is when compared to the many thousands of others. The point is none of the denominations can stand up to the power of the one true and Apostolic Church. I sincerely wish you joy in reveling in your personal interpretation of the New Testament bu remind you that you and your Church's interpretation is nothing compared to the one billion strong church body of the one true and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and carried forward by St Peter who was given the keys to the kingdom by our Christ. I am not implying that you are not a Christian, just that your church was built on sand while The Church was built on a Rock.

 

[rturner76]

Could you have gotten the salvation gospel from Peter since, in your view, "Peter sat at the feet of Jesus Christ and learned directly from him in person"?

In your view, what makes Paul more suitable to learn about salvation?

Paul's theology was very inclusive and focused on grace. Other Apostles like Peter and James focused on obedience. I think that since the Reformation, people have taken Paul's gospel to mean something like universal salvation. St Peter kept Jewish dietary laws and was focused on obeying God rather than the free ticket to heaven that some Paul-focused people have misinterpreted in his writings..

 

[ARBITER01]

Maybe you could let me know whose interpretation of the New Testament is viable.

That would be my own.

I've already pretty much finished up Acts and Hebrews, and I started Romans a few months back. GOD and I do just fine writing our own bible, I have no need for your denominations ideas.

 

[rturner76]

That would be my own.

I've already pretty much finished up Acts and Hebrews, and I started Romans a few months back. GOD and I do just fine writing our own bible, I have no need for your denominations ideas.

I'm sure you do just fine in your own mind but it has nothing to do with the Church that Jesus Christ founded and put forward through his disciples. Lean on your own understanding while I lean on the living God's understanding and the Church he built on a rock unlike the multitude of grains of sand that make up the Protestant Churches.

 

[Oneofhope]

We have received a spiritual circumcision because we have been born anew to new life with God in Christ, by the Spirit; which is ours by God's grace alone, through faith. As pure gift.

We have, therefore, been washed clean by Christ "with the washing of water with the word" (Ephesians 5:26), having "saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5)

Wonderfully stated!

 

[Oneofhope]

unlike the multitude of grains of sand that make up the Protestant Churches.

Lol. Nice! As they say here in America, there's a church on every corner. Christianity has become a washed-down business.

 

[rturner76]

Lol. Nice! As they say here in America, there's a church on every corner. Christianity has become a washed-down business.

That's why I converted to the original Church. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry has their own spin on it. The more "charismatic" one is, the more sheep they can lead astray. Come to think of it, doesn't the Bible say somewhere in Matthew that 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Oneofhope]

That's why I converted to the original Church. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry has their own spin on it. The more "charismatic" one is, the more sheep they can lead astray. Come to think of it, doesn't the Bible say somewhere in Matthew that 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The name/idea of the "Original Church" sounds hopeful. Literally, every "church" I have attended church in Washington State over the last 6 years, and each attendance was like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I stuck it out at one church for 7 months before I pulled the plug. In seven months I don't recall the name "Jesus" mentioned a single time from the pulpit. However, I did hear two occasions of teaching on his favorite burger joint and gun safety (twice . . . on each of them!) At another church, during summer months, the server "girls" were wearing such low-cut shorts, no-sleeve shirts, etc . . . they looked like stripper girls. It was unbelievable. These were the most attractive, voluptuous teens the church had. After the service, I was given a chance to be confronted by a poor soul, who opted to acknowledge me as I stood by myself for twenty minutes (waiting for a friend). At the end of our conversation, after it became remarkably heated, I said the following, "Sir, I [[said]] that you need to take a step backward." The elderly man was so angry with me as I questioned if their near nudity was appropriate for worship services . . . he was ready to strike me . . . right there in the middle of his church. That's the church these days. An elderly man was ready to literally fight over the idea that barely clothed teen girls would be serving the Elements during service . . . and I was a first-time guest.

Every church is the same, just a different set of circumstances.

And yes, there are plenty of warnings and ways to help determine if a person is actually a child of God or not . . . but because most are still under the control of their Sinful Nature, they are unable to Spiritually see, hear, and walk. In their minds, the Bible makes perfect sense, yet they are unabe to "see" further into the Scriptures, literally having their minds restricted by the Lord Himself. Unbelievable. Our Bible and our God is simply shocking.

 

[Oneofhope]

your pope is inviting homosexual, lesbian, and transgender filth through your doors

Oh boy.

 

[ARBITER01]

Oh boy.

It's true.

The world and it's sinful ways entering the doors of different denominations over the years sparked many splits in Mainline Protestant denominations in the last 10 years or so. The catholic batch are not somehow immune to this. It's starting to happen now, and it leads to the same thing.

It's bound to happen anyways. Those that are actually born again and follow the Lord Jesus's commands will leave such worldly nonsense and go where He wants them to be, so they can be closer to Him. It's a separation of the tares from the wheat.

 

[Guojing]

Paul's theology was very inclusive and focused on grace. Other Apostles like Peter and James focused on obedience. I think that since the Reformation, people have taken Paul's gospel to mean something like universal salvation. St Peter kept Jewish dietary laws and was focused on obeying God rather than the free ticket to heaven that some Paul-focused people have misinterpreted in his writings..

So because Peter was not preaching a free ticket to heaven, you believe Paul should not be?

That means Paul's instructions must be similar to Peter?

 

[rturner76]

So because Peter was not preaching a free ticket to heaven, you believe Paul should not be?

That means Paul's instructions must be similar to Peter?

In some ways they are. It seems to me that every Apostle had a message for us. Not being the same men, the messages are not all the same.

 

[Guojing]

In some ways they are. It seems to me that every Apostle had a message for us. Not being the same men, the messages are not all the same.

So would I be correct to conclude that for Catholics, they use Peter to understand Paul?