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Halloween - Do you celebrate or not?

Do you celebrate Halloween

  • Yes I do!

    Votes: 17 43.6%
  • Nope not at all

    Votes: 22 56.4%
  • what’s Halloween?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    39

CoreyD

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It's because of that that it became common in Evangelical and Fundamentalist circles to regard Halloween as evil or associated with the devil. This really intensified in the 1980's through the Satanic Panic, where you get a confluence of charlatans like John Todd, Mike Warnke, and others claiming all kinds of stories about how they used to be former witches/Satanists and peddled themselves as experts on the occult (they were lying); along with the the lies and myths surrounding things like Dungeons & Dragons, various cartoons (I wasn't allowed to watch the Smurfs when I was a child in the 80's because some people got it in their head that it was secretly spreading Satanic messages, and told my parents that). And, of course, the Halloween scares--razor blades hidden in candy, that sort of thing.

The "Halloween is bad" phenomenon is recent, and built upon lies, myths, urban legends, and the make believe of charlatans.

-CryptoLutheran
These Evangelical and Fundamentalist circles must not have kept up their Bible reading, if they relied on a Satanist to blow the whistle on what God had long condemned.
The Christians were no part of Satan's world, and they remain that way. 1 John 5:19

For example, a Christian does not need a Satanic priest, or pagan, to tell them to avoid David Blaine's shows, and many such events. Deuteronomy 18:10, 11
 
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Desk trauma

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These Evangelical and Fundamentalist circles must not have kept up their Bible reading, if they relied on a Satanist to blow the whistle on what God had long condemned.
The Christians were no part of Satan's world, and they remain that way. 1 John 5:19

For example, a Christian does not need a Satanic priest, or pagan, to tell them to avoid David Blaine's shows, and many such events. Deuteronomy 18:10, 11
Blaine is insufferable but what’s the issue with illusionists?
 
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CoreyD

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I would have a hard time crediting the notion that tarot cards are evil per se. They may have been used in questionable activities, but that's the problem with the sinner, not the object.
Do you mean they can be baptized, or Christianized?

There's a common misconception in Christianity about 1 Timothy 2:9. Paul was referring to the practice of coming to a worship service with a fancy hairdo and more jewelry than Mr T. You don't want an environment where all the women are trying to outdo each other via conspicuous consumption. That verse has nothing to do with halter tops and the like.
What do you mean by "misconception in Christianity"?
Or do you mean people have a misconception that the words in the Bible don't really have any value, but their ideas do?
Are you of the opinion that a person demonstrate modesty only when they attend meetings in the Christian congregation? Or do you think a Christian should identify as such, 24/7 - at the marketplace; on the street; in their homes?

If I was talking to a woman about modesty, I would just tell her to use her good judgment. Our spiritual health is our own personal responsibility. It is not our burden to constrain ourselves in ways we find objectionable on the misguided notion that someone might "stumble" if we don't.
Of course, each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Romans 14:12

Whoever might stumble at the sight of a woman in a halter top needs to grow up. Same for someone who might feel some way seeing someone consume alcohol, dance in a certain way, etc. I'm not going to rub it into anyone's face, but I might give them a heads-up. If I took an old church friend to one of our dance socials, I might prepare him / her in advance so they're not shocked. I dance certain moves that others might consider racy - in fact, they don't call it "sensual bachata" for nothing.
Whoever might stumble at the sight of a woman in a halter top needs to grow up.
At first, I thought you were in agreement with this.
Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.

It looks like you hold in contempt those who see modesty in dress, different to you,
You are saying then that you are the mature one, and they are not? On what basis, might I ask, are you judging this matter. God's word, or personal preference?
 
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CoreyD

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Desk trauma

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Using an example is an issue? How so?
You said illusionists shows are to be avoided hence you take issue with them. I was inquiring as to why while agreeing that blain is insufferable.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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How do you know that?
Find me the last article that states that dozens are dead after a Tarot Deck is brought to school. Or people who went to a bowling alley are mowed down by a maniac with an Ouija Board.
 
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AV1611VET

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Find me the last article that states that dozens are dead after a Tarot Deck is brought to school. Or people who went to a bowling alley are mowed down by a maniac with an Ouija Board.

They have to carry the object to the crime scene with them, do they?


 
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partinobodycular

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They have to carry the object to the crime scene with them, do they?


That's the best that you could do... two examples in which tarot cards played absolutely no role in the crimes committed? That would be like blaming the bible for the crimes committed by anybody who owned one.

I realize that your justifications for things are often tenuous, like your list of evidence for God, but this one is particularly sketchy.
 
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AV1611VET

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CoreyD

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You said illusionists shows are to be avoided hence you take issue with them. I was inquiring as to why while agreeing that blain is insufferable.
What I said is, the Christian does not need a Satanic priest, or pagan, to tell them to avoid David Blaine's shows, and many such events. Deuteronomy 18:10, 11

The scripture I posted is there as a reference. In other words, it states why. Did you read it?
I assumed the scripture was enough, but it's no problem, I'll explain. Sometimes that's required.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

The same Hebrew word, for sorcery - kashaph כָּשַׁף, is found in
Exodus 7:11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers (kashaph כָּשַׁף), and the Egyptian magicians (chartom חַרְטֹם) also did the same things by their secret arts:
Daniel Chapters 1 and 2. Daniel 2:2 So the king summoned the magicians, enchanters, sorcerers (kashaph כָּשַׁף) and astrologers to tell him what he had dreamed. When they came in and stood before the king,

Illusionist is just a fancy modern term used to make magical arts seem less ungodly, and more acceptable, but it's still practicing magic.
We hear names like Houdini; David Copperfield; David Blaine; but Jannes and Jambres - if these refer to Pharoah's priests - were the most ancient illusionists on record.
Exodus 7:22, Exodus 8:7

Magic, which encompasses the subgenres of illusion, stage magic, and close-up magic, among others, is a performing art in which audiences are entertained by tricks, effects, or illusions of seemingly impossible feats, using natural means.[1][2] It is to be distinguished from paranormal magic which are effects claimed to be created through supernatural means. It is one of the oldest performing arts in the world.


It's just Satan up to his cunning. Just as with Eve, Satan knows how to make something appealing, especially for the less mature - the inexperienced ones.
"Have a little fun", he says. "It's just harmless fun", and they fall for it.
The bird-catcher strikes again, and catches his prey. Another unwary soul falls victim.
Amos 3:5

Yes. God condemns the practice of magic, but we make excuses to have a little fun, just as we make excuses to watch a little gore, and be entertained by violence, and take in a bit of profanity.
We are so far fallen from God's standards, but most of us don't want to get up.
We want to stay there and ask God to take us as we are.
Isn't that really sad? It really saddens me. Honestly. It hurts to see people doing this.
Does that not hurt you?
 
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Desk trauma

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What I said is, the Christian does not need a Satanic priest, or pagan, to tell them to avoid David Blaine's shows, and many such events. Deuteronomy 18:10, 11

The scripture I posted is there as a reference. In other words, it states why. Did you read it?

No, I tend to skip over scripture dumps.
Illusionist is just a fancy modern term used to make magical arts seem less ungodly, and more acceptable, but it's still practicing magic.

Wait, you think they have actual magical powers?

We hear names like Houdini; David Copperfield; David Blaine; but Jannes and Jambres - if these refer to Pharoah's priests - were the most ancient illusionists on record.

Using the term illusionist is a not terribly subtitle way of the performer pointing out that underneath it all their act is not real.

Yes. God condemns the practice of magic, but we make excuses to have a little fun, just as we make excuses to watch a little gore, and be entertained by violence, and take in a bit of profanity.
We are so far fallen from God's standards, but most of us don't want to get up.
We want to stay there and ask God to take us as we are.
Isn't that really sad? It really saddens me. Honestly. It hurts to see people doing this.
Does that not hurt you?
No.
 
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ViaCrucis

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These Evangelical and Fundamentalist circles must not have kept up their Bible reading, if they relied on a Satanist to blow the whistle on what God had long condemned.
The Christians were no part of Satan's world, and they remain that way. 1 John 5:19

There was never anything satanic about Halloween. The only reason people think that is because a Satanist trolled people into thinking it was.

For example, a Christian does not need a Satanic priest, or pagan, to tell them to avoid David Blaine's shows, and many such events. Deuteronomy 18:10, 11

You think David Blaine is a literal wizard casting spells?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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This information seems well researched. Thanks.

It's not. The closest the article gets to providing a source is in this statement:

"It’s widely believed today that the church was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, church-sanctioned holiday."

Well golly, since something is widely believed then it clearly must be true. I can't think of any examples of things which have been widely believed and yet, in fact, not be true.

The History Channel is not a valid source. It is a company that provides entertainment under the guise of information. The article on its official website concerning Halloween lacks sources of any kind--there are literally no sources or citations provided. It is simply an infotainment dump catering to a popular audience.

This isn't what a source looks like. This isn't how research is done.

I'll double check it. It would be nice to hear what @dlamberth and @ZephBonkerer say on it.
Always good to have source information to substantiate the facts.

Nothing was substantiated by the article.

The fact of the matter is that we know exceedingly little about Celtic Paganism in general. Of our written sources we are left with Greek and Roman sources (as I mentioned earlier, we have Julius Caesar's account about the Gauls), but these are often contradictory. I mentioned the druids previously, who seem to be whatever the author wants them to be. Our only other written sources come from medieval Irish monks; and it is hardly clear what in these Irish fairy-tales, written centuries after the conversion of the Irish and other Celtic peoples to Christianity, is genuinely representative of pre-Christian Celtic pagan tradition, and which is the product of later Christian imagination.

The few things we can seem to peel away and get at is that there were four major seasonal celebrations, one of which being Samhain, the Celtic start of the winter season. Legends, myths, and fairy-tales from Irish monks and other Christian writers tend to indicate that there was a belief that during Samhain the barrier that separated our world from the "other" world--the world of fairies, grew thin. And so fairies and spirits could cross over.

The problem, of course, is that connecting that with Pope Gregory IV promoting the celebration of All Saints on November 1st among the Franks, as it had become the custom among the Romans is, basically, not possible.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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AV1611VET

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I can't think of any examples of things which have been widely believed and yet, in fact, not be true.

I can:
  1. Titanic unsinkable.
  2. Thalidomide a prenatal wonder drug.
  3. Geocentrism.
  4. Challenger GO FOR THROTTLE-UP.
  5. Pluto our 9th planet.
 
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dlamberth

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This information seems well researched. Thanks.
I'll double check it. It would be nice to hear what @dlamberth and @ZephBonkerer say on it.
Always good to have source information to substantiate the facts.
For source of Halloween? I go to the Heart connection of community gathered together in fun, creativity and giving.
 
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AV1611VET

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I haven't read the source - I might later when time permits.

For me, it's very simple: I judge the morality of holidays based on how they are observed today in our society, not by their origin or how they were once observed.

I think a point worth considering is that, when someone observes Halloween in a neutral fashion (dressing up as Barbie, or Spider Man, or the Lone Ranger), he is doing it in spite of Halloween, not with respect to it.
 
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