Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

[Strong in Him]

Oh well, I tried.

You and me both.
Correcting false teaching is important but sometimes, for our own mental and spiritual health, it is better to walk away.
Especially if they won't listen.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

This is what I originally said in my OP, which appears to be fitting at this point.

Love not the things of this world.

In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.

Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.
But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).

 

[ozso]

You and me both.
Correcting false teaching is important but sometimes, for our own mental and spiritual health, it is better to walk away.
Especially if they won't listen.

They rarely do. I think some folks thieve on contention.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Be ye holy and separate from the world.

Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods. Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers. There is even an Atheist Christmas Carol (See here and or here). But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For it is written,
17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:" (Ephesians 4:17-21).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 10:34-36
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

Matthew 12:48-50
"…Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.“

Matthew 5:11-12
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

 

[ozso]

To all:

This is what I originally said in my OP, which appears to be fitting at this point.

Love not the things of this world.

In 1 John 2:15-17, it says love not the world, neither the things in this world, if any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.

Christmas is technically a thing of this world. It is world recognized holiday.
But if you tell people you stopped celebrating Christmas, expect some hateful comments from people. Why?

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19).

Practically everything in the world is of this world. Therefore shun practically everything.

 

[Strong in Him]

Be ye holy and separate from the world.

Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth.

They can celebrate how they want; we can celebrate it how we want.
So please don't tell us we are bowing down to Christmas trees, worshipping father Christmas or anything else.

Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods.

No, not everyone is happy at Christmas - not everyone even has a home at Christmas never mind "newly acquired material goods."

Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers.

If someone hates Christ, they are not going to be celebrating his birth.
They may celebrate family, love, giving, doing good to others or something else - but it won't be the Word become flesh.

But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14).

Yes, it does.
But because the world, non Christians and people of other faiths have hijacked Christ's mass - feast - this does not mean that Christians can't celebrate the nativity.
As I said to you before, Christmas is the perfect time to send Christian cards to non Christian family members; to remind, or teach, them how it began and of the true meaning. Some non Christians make the effort to go to church at Christmas; it could be a fantastic opportunity to preach the Gospel. I wonder how many non Christians have wandered into a brightly decorated church, sung some carols and ended up becoming Christians? They may not have been to church at any other time - but they went at Christmas and heard the Gospel.
And you're accusing Christians of worshipping trees, believing that Santa is God and trying to keep Jesus a baby for ever.
Seriously?

If you don't like Christmas, don't celebrate it. Get out into the community and help some of those who do not have a warm home, lovely, warm meal or many personal possessions at all - and the lonely, sick and bereaved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.

Is it okay to worship God in any way we like? In Genesis 4, we see Cain trying to bring the harvest of the ground unto God as a sacrifice instead of offering an animal sacrifice like his brother Abel did correctly (See Genesis 4:3-7). Cain's offering was not accepted. His worship was not accepted. Why? Because he was doing his own thing. Cain grew angry and decided to kill his own brother over this. Friend, do you hate or dislike Christians who do not keep Christ-mass?
Jesus says he seeks for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Are we worshiping in truth if there are some pagan elements (which are a lie) mixed in with the truth? Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). Jesus said, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shalt you serve." (Luke 4:8). But how can we worship God alone if we are involving pagan elements in our worship of Him? Was not Cain's offering of doing whatever he wanted not accepted by God? (See Genesis 4:5). Was Cain truly worshiping God alone by being obedient to him or was he worshiping God his own way?

1 Timothy 4:1 says,
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,…"

Romans 10:17 says,
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Many just prefer to do their own thing like Cain instead of following God’s Word alone instead.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Suppose there was a church that preached the gospel but yet they also got nude while they did it?
Truth is getting out there, but they are doing something wrong in the process. I believe this is the same thing when it comes to Christmas. So if folks are partaking of a pagan holiday (Christ-Mass) that even atheists, agnostics, and religionists (Non-Christians) celebrate they are not being holy and separate. To pagan trees, to giving in a way that Jesus condemned, to lying (telling children that Santa exists when he doesn’t), and to worshiping a baby Jesus when He is now our risen Lord (who is no longer a baby) is to worship like Cain. God also said not to partake of the ways of the heathen nations. Surely this is a practice or a product of nations and the world, and not of God. Should not God be our focus and not the things of this world?

Again, I notice that those who do not celebrate Christ-mass can sometimes be hated or attacked (verbally) in some way.
They are made out to be like enemies all because they want to worship God in spirit and in truth by following His Word alone.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 John 3:13-18

"Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.“​

1 John 3:11-12

“For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There has to be a way Christians can obey 1 John 2:15.

1 John 2:15-17

15 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.​

If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.​

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,​

and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.​

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth​

the will of God abideth for ever.“​

In short, as a Christian, how are you obeying 1 John 2:15?
I know. This verse used to unsettle me a lot when I used to love the things of this world (like secular movies, etc).
But I one day dealt with it by putting such things out of my life.
This is my encouragement for you. Ask God for help, and He can work to help set you free from such things.

 

[Der Alte]

Be ye holy and separate from the world.
Atheists, psychics, and people of many faiths celebrate Christmas. It is the one time of year where everyone gets together to give and whereby some say they are doing it to honor Christ's birth. Everyone is one big happy family celebrating and exchanging gifts and excited over their newly received material goods. Everyone including Christ haters are celebrating Christmas along with Christ lovers. There is even an Atheist Christmas Carol (See here and or here). But the Bible says be ye holy (1 Peter 1:16), and be ye separate (2 Corinthians 6:17). The Bible says what fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14). For it is written,
17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:" (Ephesians 4:17-21).

I think your horse is a little too high. Shouldn't you be telling the world to be separate from Christians? Christian's are not responsible for how the world has wrongfully appropriated Christmas and other events of Christianity. I have been a Christian since LBJ was prez. although I had attended Sunday school sporadically since FDR. I have never seen Santa Clause, sleighs, reindeer etc. as part of any service dedicated to the birth of Jesus. Should we also stop observing Resurrection Sunday because the world has misappropriated that day with bunnies, eggs, etc? Your out-of-context proof text above is not referring to the church honoring the day of birth of Jesus or His resurrection.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus says he seeks for those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). Are we worshiping in truth if there are some pagan elements (which are a lie) mixed in with the truth?

As the days of the week and months of the year are named after Roman/Greek gods, how do you intend to completely avoid "pagan elements"?
Monday was Moon day; Thursday was Thor's day. But if you worship God on either of these days, you are not being worldly, pagan or adopting pagan elements - because your worship is to God.

Holy means set apart for divine use; dedicated to God. Worship, or anything else, which is dedicated, and directed to, God, through Jesus, in the Holy Spirit cannot be pagan.
So standing under Christmas tree singing Christmas carols is not wrong, compromising the faith, being worldly, acting as pagans or anything else. Going to a shop, or market, when there is a father Christmas (who everyone knows is the local mayor dressed up,) is not indulging in Satan worship. Having a family day, worshipping, eating, talking and opening gifts together, is not some depraved pagan ritual.

Was Cain truly worshiping God alone by being obedient to him or was he worshiping God his own way?

It depends on whether Cain was commanded to offer a certain kind of worship, but disobeyed. That is exactly what Adam had done - he KNEW God had told him not to eat the fruit from a tree, but he did it anyway.

Many just prefer to do their own thing like Cain instead of following God’s Word alone instead.

God's word prophesies, and the records, the birth of Christ.
It says that there was such joy when Christ was born, that the whole heavenly host, praising God, appeared to a group of humble shepherds.
Magi also honoured Christ's birth, travelling, possibly thousands of miles, to kneel before him and worship him.
And you are acting as though it's wrong to read these accounts and worship the God who became flesh - just because the Bible soes not specifically tell us when he was born?
What is worse; celebrating Christ's birth on the wrong day, or not celebrating it at all?

But like I said, if you don't like Christmas or want to keep it; don't.

 

[Strong in Him]

Again, I notice that those who do not celebrate Christ-mass can sometimes be hated or attacked (verbally) in some way.
They are made out to be like enemies all because they want to worship God in spirit and in truth by following His Word alone.

No one is attacking you verbally because you don't celebrate Christmas, but for your appalling theology, and your belief that others have to believe as you do.
And you've told me that I have a blindfold on/am not wanting to see the truth, told other people that they are indulged in pagan rituals, or are upholding lies. What's that, if not a verbal attack?

 

[prodromos]

To all:

While there are biblical clues to Christ's birth date, the date of Christ's birth is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Bible and oddly his birth is coincidentally placed upon the date of the worship of other pagan gods, and a popular pagan festival, instead.

There was no worship of other God's on December 25, nor was there a pagan festival on December 25. One of the emperors, Aurelian, dedicated a temple to Sol Invictus on that date in 274AD, just the dedication, a once off affair, but December 25th held no significance to any of the pagan celebrations. What you have stated above is an oft repeated falsehood, but it has no basis in history. It is totally made up. The length of the Saturnalia festival varied over the years, but it had always ended before December 25th.

You have been posting a lie. You may have been unaware that what you were posting was false but you can no longer use that as an excuse.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There was no worship of other God's on December 25, nor was there a pagan festival on December 25. One of the emperors, Aurelian, dedicated a temple to Sol Invictus on that date in 274AD, just the dedication, a once off affair, but December 25th held no significance to any of the pagan celebrations. What you have stated above is an oft repeated falsehood, but it has no basis in history. It is totally made up. The length of the Saturnalia festival varied over the years, but it had always ended before December 25th.

You have been posting a lie. You may have been unaware that what you were posting was false but you can no longer use that as an excuse.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, in the article "Natal Day," records that the early Catholic church father, Origen, acknowledged:

“In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners like Pharaoh and Herod who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world.“​

The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, says:

“According to… most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti(birthday of the Invincible Sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome."​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do not imitate the heathen's ways or men's traditions.

Colossians 2:8 says,
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Is Christmas something in the Bible or is it more like a tradition of men and or after the rudiments of the world? Think about it. Should we let a world recognized holiday tell us how we are to worship our Lord? Or do we let the Bible alone tell us how we are to worship our Lord?

"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2) (NLT).

"...Learn not the way of the heathen,..." (Jeremiah 10:2).

But it has Jesus in the holiday and we focus on Jesus, so it is okay, right?

It is written,

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 11:4).

Paul is saying to bear with them that preach another Jesus. He does not say to embrace another Jesus in whom they have not preached.

The Jesus that is being preached in Christmas is a baby Jesus and how we must give honor to Him by exchanging gifts (sometimes going into debt) around a Christmas tree.

In fact, 9 out of the 11 times the word "tradition" appears in the King James Bible, it is in reference to the traditions of men that were bad and not good (See this link here at BlueLetterBible). In fact, Jesus says that men were transgressing God's commands by their man made traditions. Christmas is a human tradition of man and it is nowhere to be found within the Scriptures; And we are told not to imitate the way of the heathen or the customs of the world. Christmas is very much a custom or celebration of the world.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Some try to point out how the names of the days of the week are pagan in origin and so this means we can celebrate Christ-mass.
No. The days of the week are simply names of the week and there is no pagan rituals or unbiblical practices done as a part of the existence of these days. For example: We do not honor the fake god of Thor on Thursday. There is no national weekly Thor day we celebrate where we take out hammers and wave them around and chant, or something dumb like that. On Christmas, there are other activities that are committed that fall into violating God’s Word. That’s why Christmas is a problem. It’s not just the name alone. If it was just a day of the week that nobody cared about like Thursday, then it would not be a big deal. So those who bring up how the days of the week are pagan as a justification for enjoying Christmas are not thinking logically.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, some appeal to their age or what they view as their experience to prove that Christ-mass is not bad. Well, lots of people are old and have experienced many things and yet they can have false beliefs. So age and or one’s claim to experience is not sufficient to prove that Christ-mass is okay.

In short, one’s claim to age or experience does not really address the problems of the holiday of Christ-mass as I pointed out in the OP. There are several practices and things in Christ-mass that are simply not Christian. Any Christian who is seeking to follow Jesus and not the ways of the world will get it. Those who love the things of this world will of course not get it. Meaning, if you love secular movies, music, and holidays, you have not come to obedience on 1 John 2:15 and thus you will never see the truth on such a matter. Remember, 2 Timothy 3:1-9 warns about certain believers who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of God. Surely we must not be like those believers, which God warned us about. In short, we must change our ways if we are caught up in the ways of this world. Follow only Jesus and His good ways according to His Word. That is the way. Jesus is the way, and nothing else. It’s not Christ-mass or the modern day Easter holiday, or anything else. It’s Jesus and His Word!!!!

 

[prodromos]

The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, in the article "Natal Day," records that the early Catholic church father, Origen, acknowledged:

“In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners like Pharaoh and Herod who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world.“​

The Church celebrates all the major events in the Gospel. I've already told you that every day of the year is sanctified by feast days and fasting days commemorating the events of the Gospels and the lives of the Saints. The angels glorified God on the day of His birth. The Church does nothing less.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, says:

“According to… most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti(birthday of the Invincible Sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome."​

December 25th is not the date of the Winter solstice and there are no historical references to devotees of Mithras celebrating on December 25th prior to Christians celebrating the birth of Christ.

Also, if you are going to quote what is claimed to be the Catholic Encyclopedia then actually quote the Catholic Encyclopedia, not some site that claims to be quoting it. If you search for that text you get a whole lot of sites with the same quote (including Jehovas Witness), but strangely enough, the Catholic Encyclopedia is not one of those sites.

Instead of your knee jerk response of copy/pasting unverifiable information from some random website, why don't you actually research primary sources. You won't find anything backing up your claims because it is pretty much all made up.