Halloween - Do you celebrate or not?

[Michie]

Why are you bringing Christmas into it. It's not pagan. i guess you don't believe we are to be a light to the world?

He said Christians….

 

[AV1611VET]

Please read what I wrote. Christmas was not brought into my reply. A family with little ones just came to the door. Lots of smiles, laughter and fun were shared. That is how light is brought into the world.

Celebrating Halloween is like skating on thin ice.

 

[DragonFox91]

I clicked 'yes' but don't really 'celebrate' it.

I just pass out candy. I don't dress up. I really don't care for it. Tonight I went to a trunk or treat event. I didn't dress up, just passed out Bibles & candy.

Part of me thinks eventually we s/ grow out of dressing up in fantastical costumes. I think it's largely for children. (if you like it fine, that's your preference, it just strikes me as an adult, you s/ do adult things). But I was never really big into it, even when I was a child.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The name Halloween is connected with the pagan Celtic festival of Samhain.

No. No it's not.

Samhain and Halloween have literally nothing to do with each other. It's a commonly repeated myth that gets said again and again on the internet, but there's literally no basis for this in fact.

Like so many oft-repeated statements of falsehood like this, we can thank James Frazer and his quackery. Frazer, essentially, makes the whole of Christianity just a copy-cat of paganism. And is the reason why Christ Mythicism remains so popular on the internet--where a lack of critical analysis and proper documentation gets a free pass.

Halloween is based on Samhain the same way that Jesus is based on Osiris. Which is to say, there's notta, zilch, nothing to substantiate that. The Irish converted to Christianity, and rather quickly. Irish monastaries were sending missionary-monks back to Britain. In fact this led to a bit of a clash, as the Mission of St. Augustine of Canterbury to the Anglo-Saxons, sponsored by Rome, brought Roman liturgical customs to the British Isles and which clashed (usually in very small ways) with local liturgical customs. These things were eventually resolved at the Synod of Whitby in the 7th century. The fact of the matter is, by the time The Feast of All Saints was settled on November 1st, between the 8th and 9th centuries, the Irish were a thoroughly Christianized people.

Virtually everything we "know" about pre-Christian Celtic Paganism comes from either Roman sources (like the work of Julius Caesar who clearly had a bias against the Celts of Gaul), or else later Christian sources. Irish fairytales are a product of Christian imagination centuries after the conversion of the Irish to Christianity. As a result of this we know exceedingly little. It's not even entirely clear what the word "druid" actually refers to, as depending on the source one reads it can mean whatever the author wanted it to mean. This also holds true with Samhain, we know next to nothing about this observance. Virtually everything that gets mentioned on the internet about it can be traced back to people in the 1800's pulling speculations out of their hindquarters (such as the aforementioned James Frazer).

The 19th century was the wild west of comparative religious studies. And to call the ideas that emerged back then outdated is a bit like calling phrenology outdated. A better word would be pseudoscience.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sunflower39]

Justify all you want. The devil and all the evil of it shouldn't be celebrated. If you do, as a christian what impression are you giving to non believers?

Contradictory to what to think, I think avoiding Halloween and saying that it’s evil would not impress non-believers as they would think that being a Christian means that they have to erase all aspects of fun from their lives.

 

[Michie]

On Halloween

Instead of writing my own long post, which would be redundant, please see this great article from uCatholic on the Catholic origins of Halloween. Even the Roman kids are starting to get into it&#82…

christianrenaissancemovement.com

 

[AV1611VET]

Contradictory to what to think, I think avoiding Halloween and saying that it’s evil would not impress non-believers as they would think that being a Christian means that they have to erase all aspects of fun from their lives.

Do you think it's coincidental that atheists don't harp on Halloween like they do Christmas and Easter?

After all, Halloween showcases the supernatural world; but you won't see atheists complaining.

Why is that?

I think I know, but I won't say it at this time.

And another good question is:

If some believe Christmas is part of Saturnalia, why don't they think Halloween is part of Samhain?

 

[CoreyD]

You know what's weird, it seems Christians are divided on this topic, as it's a hot button topic every year, sometimes I think it's just for arguing for hte sake of arguing. lol

I typically don't associate with Christians like this and actually had distanced myself to an acquaintance level friend if I found out they were against this kind of thing. It's zealot in nature.

The problem seems to be, not being able to sit and have a reasonable discussion on a topic.
If that could happen, I think because communication takes place, where persons listen to each other, and consider what is said, and discuss with each other calmly, we would come to some sort of reasonable conclusion, but I don't see that happening.

Usually, persons are not interested in listening.
That's something I would like to see, but it would be a pleasant surprise if it happened, since, as it happens today, hundreds of those following Jesus, did not even want to listen, and reason on what he said.
Instead, they preferred to go their own path - to do what they wanted to do, regardless of what Jesus said.

Jesus tries to reason with them.
John 6:26, 27
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

They hear something they don't like.
John 6:35-38
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

They use an excuse to stop listening.
John 6:41, 42
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

Jesus tries to reason with them, again.

Spoiler: John 6:43-51

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

They are not having it. Instead of listening, or asking Jesus to explain, or waiting for him to do so, they start this loud arguing.
John 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

Jesus makes another try.

Spoiler: John 6:53-59

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Now, they've had it. Off they go.
John 6:60, 66
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

I wonder if @dlamberth would like to have a reasonable conversation with me.

A family with little ones just came to the door. Lots of smiles, laughter and fun were shared. That is how light is brought into the world.

One of the most joyful times, where lots of smiles, laughter and fun is shared, is

Would Jesus encourage this fun, for the sake of smiles, and laughter?
Other times where lots of smiles, laughter and fun is shared, are

Would Jesus encourage this fun, for the sake of smiles, and laughter?
Jesus said, of his disciples, They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. John 17:16
Jesus preceded that with these words to his father, 'I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one.'

A light to the world
The Bible is God's message to mankind, revealing the truth about God. David describe God's word as a lamp to his feet, and a light to his path. Psalm 119:105
Jesus came as the light of the world, but he highlights this truth -And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. John 3:19

This is how light is brought into the world
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” John 8:12
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. John 12:46

The world is is darkness, because of the evil one. All the things of the world are from the evil one. They are not of God.
Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
1 John 2:15-17

Let your light shine before men
I want to thank @returntosender for having the courage to reach out a helping hand to those he sees going down a wrong path. It;s what Jesus did, in imitation of his father. This is one way to be a light to those in darkness, in imitation of Jesus' example.

Our conduct should not demonstrate that we are of the world. People should see a distinction.
Is going into the darkness, because we like to see people 'having fun', letting our light shine?
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Peter highlights the works of darkness, helping us see the contrast between those, and good works.
1 Peter 4:3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles - when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.

One of the things, many people are afraid of, is the rejection.
1 Peter 4:4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.

It takes courage, faith, and a love for God, and his word, and his son, of course, to reject this world, which is in the control of Satan. 1 John 5:19
It's sad that many will fall, because they love pleasure, more than they love God.

Is there anything here, I said, that you do not agree with @dlamberth, or would like to make a point about?
I'd be so happy to hear your thoughts.
If you are new to the Bible, that's okay. I have spoken to those persons also, and will be delighted to share what the Bible says, on anything you may not be familiar with, or certain about.
The Bible is here to guide us into the light, so that we can have a relationship with our father, whom Adam alienated us from.

Can i hear from you?

 

[dlamberth]

Do you think it's coincidental that atheists don't harp on Halloween like they do Christmas and Easter?

After all, Halloween showcases the supernatural world; but you won't see atheists complaining.

Why is that?

I think I know, but I won't say it at this time.

And another good question is:

If some believe Christmas is part of Saturnalia, why don't they think Halloween is part of Samhain?

None of that makes any difference to me. What I enjoy is the coming together as a culture in celebration, fun and community, be it Christmas, Halloween, Easter or what ever.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the Western Church there is a three-day observance known as the Triduum of Allhallowstide. The Feast of All Saints is on November 1st. A feast which honors all the saints who have come before us was not invented in the 8th century, but it is during this time that the Feast was locked onto November 1st in the West. Prior to this, there did not exist a standardized calendar date for the feast. This is why, for example, the Eastern Orthodox celebrate All-Saints as a moveable Feast--on the first Sunday after Pentecost. Even in the West the celebration of this feast varied based largely on geography. It was a pope who moved the feast to November 1st, standardizing it across the Latin Church in the West.

Centuries later, the Feast of All Souls was added to November 2nd. This, along with the Eve of All Saints on October 31st created the three-day observance (a triduum) known as Allhallowstide. Allhallowstide is archaic English, in contemporary English we'd say All-Saints-time, as it is the time of the year focused on the remembrance of the Christian Faithful who have gone before us. Compare this with the archaic Christmastide, which refers to the entire twelve day Christmas Season (December 25th - January 5th) between the Seasons of Advent and Epiphany.

All the dressing up and spooky stuff is the invention of modern people in the last century. It's as relevant to the historic observance of Allhallowstide as chocolate bunnies for Easter or flying reindeer for Christmas. Which is to say, it's not relevant.

But people have fun with it anyway. The same as people have fun eating chocolate bunnies, going on egg hunts, or getting pictures taken with Santa Claus at the mall.

The only reason some Christians take issue with Halloween today is because in the 1960's Anton LeVey decided to troll American Fundamentalists. And Fundamentalists, for their part, took the bait hook line and sinker.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[AV1611VET]

None of that makes any difference to me. What I enjoy is the coming together as a culture in celebration, fun and community, be it Christmas, Halloween, Easter or what ever.

1 Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

 

[CoreyD]

The only reason some Christians take issue with Halloween today is because in the 1960's Anton LeVey decided to troll American Fundamentalists. And Fundamentalists, for their part, took the bait hook line and sinker.

-CryptoLutheran

I did not even know that to be a reason. There are so many reasons which do not involve Satanism.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Whatever the origins of Halloween, I see no sin in going from door to door in various costumes in search of candy. My decision to celebrate or observe some holiday is not at all influenced by whether it had some immoral or pagan background. There would have to be some detestable practice connected to it today for me to have any objection.

I cannot think of any holiday that is generally observed here in the USA that would be immoral per se. Are there any temple prostitutes, human sacrifices, worshiping of demons, etc connected with any of these?

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Justify all you want. The devil and all the evil of it shouldn't be celebrated. If you do, as a christian what impression are you giving to non believers?

Celebrating a holiday does not need to be justified - especially if there are no immoral practices associated with its observance as we know it today. If we respect the liberties of other believers as Christians, we are giving a good impression to others. We communicate to them that we reject the legalism and false piety that comes with restrictions that serve no worthwhile purpose.

Halloween may have had an unsavory background as a holiday, but that alone is not enough to justify restricting others from observing it, or shaming them when they do. We judge holidays as they are known and observed today, not based on their historical background.

 

[CoreyD]

Whatever the origins of Halloween, I see no sin in going from door to door in various costumes in search of candy. My decision to celebrate or observe some holiday is not at all influenced by whether it had some immoral or pagan background. There would have to be some detestable practice connected to it today for me to have any objection.

I cannot think of any holiday that is generally observed here in the USA that would be immoral per se. Are there any temple prostitutes, human sacrifices, worshiping of demons, etc connected with any of these?

I hope you would not mind talking to me.
What do you think of 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you believe that every package belonging to darkness will have immorality marked on it, or are there things we should look for, that will show they belong to darkness?

We wouldn't see the harm, in lemonade laced with poison, because we are not supposed to see the poison, but if we are told, we could get it tested to see, the poison.
In the same way, we may not see the harm in certain celebrations, unless we examine what makes it harmful.

 

[dlamberth]

Is there anything here, I said, that you do not agree with @dlamberth, or would like to make a point about?
I'd be so happy to hear your thoughts.
If you are new to the Bible, that's okay. I have spoken to those persons also, and will be delighted to share what the Bible says, on anything you may not be familiar with, or certain about.
The Bible is here to guide us into the light, so that we can have a relationship with our father, whom Adam alienated us from.

Can i hear from you?

I'll give it a try. I don't know how far we can go though as I have a very different perspective of the Light of God and even God than I suspect you may have. I'm not at all limited to the Bible or even Christ when it comes to the Light of God raining upon all of this Creation. Please let me know if I'm hitting the direction your thinking of. Please also, if all your going to do is hit me with Bible quotes, that's not going to work on me. I tend to go a bit deeper than that. It's God who is my reality and I'm not at all wanting to be distracted by images of Satan or Sin.

So, towards the Light. Spiritually I start out knowing that every soul as an activity of God, capable of bringing forth that Light. When sitting in the Heart of Christ, there is that Light of God shining through ALL of Creation, without exception. It has a way of shining forth in an infinite number of ways. For example, I remember when sitting with my infant grand-daughter (she's 22 now) and seeing her eyes shine as she giggled in that baby sort of way. There clear as day was the Light of God shining forth, touching my soul causing in me wonderful joy and happiness. And I witnessed that Light last evening as the children knocked on my door and I handed out butterfingers. And I also witness the Light within the vitality of the plants and animals which makes them alive and vibrant with Life. With God being infinite, I'm just not able to limit God's Light to a single point of reference. From my perspective that would be limiting God.

Lastly, to take the opportunity to share a major influence upon my own spiritual life, and this may give you a clue about what I think of the Christian Church, is the medieval Christian mystic Marguerite Porete. She wrote that there are two churches. The first she called the High Holy Church. That church PREACHES Love. The other church she called the Little Holy Church. That church she wrote preaches rules, laws and order. Which to be honest is how I read your post. Needless to say Porete was burned at the stake by the Little Holy Church. There seems to have been some disagreements about the soul that the Little Holy Church didn't like very much.

 

[CoreyD]

Satan does indeed have a way of making his ways appear righteous. He achieves this in part by promoting false teachings. Heresies that deny the Lord or make light of sin are easy to spot. But false teachings that impose unreasonable constraints on others in the name of "holiness" take more practice to detect.

There is a misconception that false doctrines that "tickle the ears" will necessarily be the kind that makes excuses for immorality. In reality, such doctrines are oftentimes legalistic. They flatter the egos of those who observe these legalistic doctrines, while promoting a counterfeit to the Way Truth and Life.

If you are in a place or environment where immorality is rampant, you'll know. You can't ignore it. Sin has a way of destroying the goodwill that makes any kind of community possible.

Do people seem overly guarded with others that they do not know? Does this extend well beyond the normal precautions one would exercise when dealing with strangers? Consider the trashy nightclub where a man is all-but presumed to be some kind of creep solely because he is male. Or the workplace where employees have unreasonable restrictions placed on them. I take these as indications that sin has destroyed the normal trust and goodwill that would be present in a healthier environment.

We cannot be paranoid and call that holiness. It is folly to avoid reading a newspaper on the basis that you could get a heart attack from reading bad news that is printed in it. If there is reason to believe there is some immoral practice going on, then you should avoid it. But don't shun a holiday just because of what some ding-dongs did back in the 17th century AD when they celebrated it.

Having an aversion to a holiday because of some tenuous connection to paganism is not going to make us look good to non-believers. I've heard of people refuse to play any game with playing cards because the face cards had some connection to sin that only they understood. I am so impressed at how holy and righteous those people are that I wrote a speech in their honor. In fact, I think I'll share it here ... (fumbles around in my pockets) ... gee, I guess I ain't got no speech.

I'm listening to you. Thanks for your response.
What i hear you saying is that there are extremes, and some go that far.
While I agree with you, that we don't want to take those extremes, you seem to be saying that Satan misleads us, into taking things too seriously.
Do you believe Satan misleads us into not taking things seriously enough?

Do you find this command complicated, or would you say, it's straightforward, and would you be able to explain it to anyone above the age of i5?

Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
1 John 2:15-17

John 15:17-19
17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

 

[DragonFox91]

Do you think it's coincidental that atheists don't harp on Halloween like they do Christmas and Easter?

I also noticed people don't complain about the commercialization of Halloween like they do other holidays too.

 

[Red Gold]

Celebrating Halloween is like skating on thin ice.

today is all saints day

 

[Lukaris]

I can remember when Halloween was mostly cartoonish fun with the likes of Herman Munster and the Monster Mash.