Hamas-Israel News Thread

[wing2000]

And if not?

The camp has just 1.4 square kilometers and UN is there. Its not too probable that Hamas was there.

I think it's higly probable Hamas had military assets in the camp. That is their MO....

 

[trophy33]

I think it's higly probable Hamas had military assets in the camp. That is their MO....

In the UN camp? Highly probable?

 

[ralliann]

If Israel will commit war crimes, he will not be a western ally for long.

Unless, they are unethical, then anything their side does is A OK. But they have been their ally because they don't commit war crimes, nor are they terrorists.

 

[wing2000]

In the UN camp? Highly probable?

Yes. The UN is operating at the mercy of Hamas. If Hamas wants to store arms in the camp or establish a military command post in the camp, the UN is no position to stop them.

 

[trophy33]

Yes. The UN is operating at the mercy of Hamas. If Hamas wants to store arms in the camp or establish a military command post in the camp, the UN is no position to stop them.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Let's assume there were.
Israel would also know the camp is one of the most densely populated areas on earth.
Someone in the Israeli command made a decision to bomb it (assuming the camp was the intended target) knowning the risk to human life would be large. They own that decision.

If only 50 people were killed, in one of the most densely populated areas in the world, then I would call that a surgical strike. And a successful one, considering the fatalities could have been much worse.

Israel is doing their best to accomplish their goals, while minimizing civilian casualties - we ought to give them credit for trying.

 

[trophy33]

If only 50 people were killed, in one of the most densely populated areas in the world, then I would call that a surgical strike. And a successful one, considering the fatalities could have been much worse.

Israel is doing their best to accomplish their goals, while minimizing civilian casualties - we ought to give them credit for trying.

If "only" 50 civilians (Jews) were killed with some Hamas rocket that would target a place with a soldier, would you say the same? And would you give them credit for trying?

It seems to me that all your arguments cease to work if you simply switch sides.

 

[Landon Caeli]

If "only" 50 civilians (Jews) were killed with some Hamas rocket that would target a place with a soldier, would you say the same? And would you give them credit for trying?

It seems to me that all your arguments cease to work if you simply switch sides.

Yes.

I don't favor Jews anymore than I do Czechs. And I say that as a part Slovak person. Although, I do wish I was part Jewish too.

 

[trophy33]

Yes.

Well, I cannot imagine a world in which killing 50 civilians, possibly children (because there is plenty in the camp) can be supported by anyone.

If those 50 were fighters, then its a different story. It would truly be surgical, even though still highly risky, using bombs on such small place with 26 schools.

 

[JosephZ]

...Hiding behind civilians, in war, is the dirtiest of dirty things.

Not only does the IDF use human shields, they have even appealed a human shield ban in the past.

Israel-Gaza: IDF used Palestinians as human shields 1,200 occasions in last five years, say Israeli defence officials

IDF to appeal human shield ban

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.

Israel-Gaza: IDF used Palestinians as human shields 1,200 occasions in last five years, say Israeli defence officials

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Israeli soldiers 'used Palestinian girl as human shield'

16-year-old Ahed Mereb was so traumatised after being forced to stand in front of an Israeli military vehicle for two hours that she had to be taken to hospital.

www.newarab.com

Israeli troops used Palestinian as human shield

For several years, Palestinians had complained about the Israeli army’s use of human shields, but proof was difficult to come by. Then in late February, Associated Press Television News captured footage of one such incident.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Ana the Ist]

Where did I say "do nothing"?

You've objected to everything they have done.

What would be an acceptable response to October 7th in your mind?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Both sides are doing evil to the other side, so its not so easy as just stopping this one thing. Some Jews are also calling for the elimination of Palestinians. The hatred goes deep and its a broad and complex problem.

incorrect - IMHO - Israel has been working, giving land and concessions - Hamas had been openly attacking Israel - they refuse to negotiate and when given a two state possible solution - they said no.

That is not an act of people who want peace.

 

[trophy33]

incorrect - IMHO - Israel has been working, giving land and concessions - Hamas had been openly attacking Israel - they refuse to negotiate and when given a two state possible solution - they said no.

That is not an act of people who want peace.

This is not a complete or balanced picture, though.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Not only does the IDF use human shields, they have even appealed a human shield ban in the past.

View attachment 338732View attachment 338733


Israel-Gaza: IDF used Palestinians as human shields 1,200 occasions in last five years, say Israeli defence officials

IDF to appeal human shield ban

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.

Israel-Gaza: IDF used Palestinians as human shields 1,200 occasions in last five years, say Israeli defence officials

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Israeli soldiers 'used Palestinian girl as human shield'

16-year-old Ahed Mereb was so traumatised after being forced to stand in front of an Israeli military vehicle for two hours that she had to be taken to hospital.

www.newarab.com

Israeli troops used Palestinian as human shield

For several years, Palestinians had complained about the Israeli army’s use of human shields, but proof was difficult to come by. Then in late February, Associated Press Television News captured footage of one such incident.

www.nbcnews.com

Wow....you're describing tactics regarding terrorists they've arrested. Not civilians. You're also pulling articles from 2005...not current ones.

Hamas took hostages this month. Do you have anything about Israel using human shields recently? Or are all your examples from 2 decades ago?

The same thing Allies ware trying to do in Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel must do in Palestine.

We killed tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq. Many times, they weren't anywhere near enemy soldiers.

Here's just one example...

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

It's nice to imagine a fantasy world where you only kill the enemy...but that's a fantasy world. It's never existed. In a war, civilians get killed all the time....and Israel declared war (rightly) after October 7th. We went to war after about 3000 were killed on 9/11....a much smaller proportion of our population than those killed in Israel on October 7th.

I'm sure Israel is doing all it can to reduce civilian casualties...but they will inevitably happen, that's war.

 

[JosephZ]

Wow....you're describing tactics regarding terrorists they've arrested. Not civilians. You're also pulling articles from 2005...not current ones.

Hamas took hostages this month. Do you have anything about Israel using human shields recently? Or are all your examples from 2 decades ago?

They continue to use human shields today, including women and children. The story from 2005 was to show how the IDF opposed a ban on using human shields.

 

[trophy33]

We killed tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq. Many times, they weren't anywhere near enemy soldiers...

It's nice to imagine a fantasy world where you only kill the enemy...but that's a fantasy world. It's never existed. In a war, civilians get killed all the time....and Israel declared war (rightly) after October 7th. We went to war after about 3000 were killed on 9/11....a much smaller proportion of our population than those killed in Israel on October 7th.

My post had a broader context. I did not say it does not happen. I said in a civilized world, this must be limited as much as possible.

Accidents, mistakes, errors or evil individual acts of soldiers happen. However, we cannot say it does not matter. Civilized countries must be sensitive to this and loudly against it.

 

[Always in His Presence]

This is not a complete or balanced picture, though.

Yes it is - it's the facts - want a balanced picture? When was the last time Hamas wanted to open negotiations and diplomatic connections with Israel -

 

[trophy33]

Yes it is - it's the facts - want a balanced picture? When was the last time Hamas wanted to open negotiations and diplomatic connections with Israel -

Its not complete because you picked few things. Its not balanced because you point only at Hamas, while there are also Palestinians and Jews.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This argument has zero relevance or substance.

It has complete relevance. Palestinians never denied they were subject to Ottoman rule. Most of the land in Palestine was officially owned by Ottomans who lived nowhere near Palestine.

 

[Vanellus]

Maybe we shouldn't be so overzealous as to put words in peoples mouths... All that does is raise everyone's blood pressure.

Strange how the words one says can have an effect on someone else's physiology. But it's true!

I didn't put "undeserved of existence" in rjs330's "mouth"

Physiology? Is that the word you meant to use?

Since you've intervened in another conversation do you think that no Palestinian deserves existence?