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Hamas-Israel News Thread

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RocksInMyHead

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Fantasy would be a better description.
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of analogy? The person that the post was directed at was speaking from a perspective of living in a country with an overwhelmingly superior military. The point of the hypothetical scenario was to present a situation in which that military would be inferior so as to examine the proposed solution to an insurgency from another perspective. It's not something that anyone thinks will happen (conspiracy), or would like to happen (fantasy) - it's a thought exercise. "What would you do/think if you were in this situation?"
 
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Wings like Eagles

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Are you unfamiliar with the concept of analogy? The person that the post was directed at was speaking from a perspective of living in a country with an overwhelmingly superior military. The point of the hypothetical scenario was to present a situation in which that military would be inferior so as to examine the proposed solution to an insurgency from another perspective. It's not something that anyone thinks will happen (conspiracy), or would like to happen (fantasy) - it's a thought exercise. "What would you do/think if you were in this situation?"
It depends, would they have ray guns they could shoot from space, like on Star Trek or only small hand held laser's, makes a difference you know.
 
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wing2000

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Now, obviously, Israel has a legitimate cause for controlling Palestinian borders since the main thing they seem to focus on importing are weapons and explosives and intel on Israeli defenses....instead of food, water, or other things which might improve the conditions of the Palestinian people. This actually makes sense from the pov of Palestinian authorities as improving the quality of life might lead to a decrease in support for destroying Israel as Palestinians become content with the lives they have. If the majority of smuggled imports were humanitarian aid....then Israel might eventually consider themselves safe, stop controlling the Palestinian borders....and then they would lose international support as few would continue to view their conditions as that of an "open air prison."

Until Israel is destroyed entirely....Palestinian authorities want their conditions to be as miserable as possible. It is how they acquire international support and get political suckers (see Joe Biden) to donate millions of dollars in "aid" which they use to acquire weapons and continue terrorizing the Israeli people.

The best response (imo) to accusations that Israel has made Palestine an open air prison or worse that they somehow support "apartheid" which they don't....by any definition of apartheid....is to point out that Palestinians want it that way.

If the Gaza hospital was in fact destroyed by Hamas terrorists (as US, UN, and other international experts claim) it is a perfect example of the Palestinian peoples' disregard for the lives and well being of their fellow Palestinians. It allows them to paint the Israelis as heartless war criminals, it drums up support for Palestine as propaganda, and results in funding for humanitarian aid which they use for the illegal smuggling of more weapons into Palestine.

Replace "Palestinian athorities" with Hamas and I'll agree.
Note, the hosptial was not destroyed. The explosions impacted a parking lot in the hospital complex.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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wing2000

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Gazans forced to drink dirty, salty water as the fuel needed to run water systems runs out

One vital supply missing from the aid convoys has been fuel. Without it, Gaza’s water system has crumbled.

“Fuel is water,” said Hall of CSIS. “Cutting off fuel is cutting off water.”

For Gazans, no power means taps have run dry. “Even if you are lucky and have a well, you will not be able to pump (water) to high floors because we don’t have electricity,” Al Shanti said.

Many of the water trucks Gazans rely on to fill water containers are unable to reach people’s homes because they lack fuel, and because of the bombardment,

Making water drinkable also relies on fuel.

All five wastewater treatment plants and two of the three desalination plants have stopped working. The enclave’s last remaining major desalination plant, which had been shut down for almost a week, resumed operations on Saturday but is at less than 7% of its usual capacity.

“The only water people have is essentially non-potable seawater mixed with sewage,” said Natasha Hall, a senior fellow with the Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

Most of Gaza’s water comes from a coastal aquifer, a body of underground water that stretches along the coastline of the eastern Mediterranean from Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula up to Israel.

Around 97% is undrinkable; it’s salty, brackish, and contaminated by untreated wastewater and pollution.

2,000 children killed in Gaza, aid group says, as doctors warn fuel shortage is a death sentence


Save the Children said Monday that over 1 million children are “trapped” in Gaza with no safe place to go and warned of the devastating impacts of lacking medication and electricity to power vital health infrastructure in the enclave.

“At least 2,000 children have been killed in Gaza over the past 17 days, and a further 27 killed in the West Bank,” the aid agency said on Monday.

Fuel means life in Gaza. Without fuel, water cannot be pumped or desalinated, generators that power hospitals – that keep incubators, ventilators and dialysis machines running and to sterilize surgical equipment – will fail.

Twelve hospitals and 32 medical centers are now out of service after Israeli strikes and fuel depletion, according to the Palestinian health ministry in Gaza. Early Tuesday, the Indonesian Hospital in northern Gaza had no electricity due to the fuel shortage, Hamas said.

Hospitals are nearing collapse, operating at more than 150% of their capacity and situations have become so dire that surgeries are being conducted without anesthesia, and in some cases, under the illumination of phone lights, the Palestinian Authority health ministry added.

Around 50,000 pregnant women are struggling to access health care, with about 166 unsafe births happening daily, and more than 5,000 women due to give birth in the next month, it said.

Israel said it had struck more than 400 targets in the past 24 hours, after hitting more than 320 a day earlier, in some of the most intense aerial attacks on Gaza in recent days. The Gaza Health Ministry, which is controlled by the armed group Hamas, said that it had recorded the highest single-day death toll of the war: at least 704 people killed in dozens of strikes on homes, a refugee camp and other places. It was not possible to independently verify the toll.

Even if the death toll is half what the Health Ministry claims, that is a terrible price to pay.
Israel understandably wants to reduce the risk to their soldiers by destroying as much of the Hamas military infrastructure as possible. But, in doing so, they are killing thousands of civilians, at least half of which are women and children. Israel's decision to write off the human toll as collateral damaga will have long term reprecussions.
 
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wing2000

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Former President Obama weighed in on Medium....he frames the current situaion well, as well as the dangers to Isreal if they continue down their current path:

"As I stated in an earlier post, Israel has a right to defend its citizens against such wanton violence, and I fully support President Biden’s call for the United States to support our long-time ally in going after Hamas, dismantling its military capabilities, and facilitating the safe return of hundreds of hostages to their families.

But even as we support Israel, we should also be clear that how Israel prosecutes this fight against Hamas matters. In particular, it matters — as President Biden has repeatedly emphasized — that Israel’s military strategy abides by international law, including those laws that seek to avoid, to every extent possible, the death or suffering of civilian populations. Upholding these values is important for its own sake — because it is morally just and reflects our belief in the inherent value of every human life. Upholding these values is also vital for building alliances and shaping international opinion — all of which are critical for Israel’s long-term security.

This is an enormously difficult task. War is always tragic, and even the most carefully planned military operations often put civilians at risk. As President Biden noted during his recent visit to Israel, America itself has at times fallen short of our higher values when engaged in war, and in the aftermath of 9/11, the U.S. government wasn’t interested in heeding the advice of even our allies when it came to the steps we took to protect ourselves against Al Qaeda. Now, after the systematic massacre of Israeli citizens, a massacre that evokes some of the darkest memories of persecution against the Jewish people, it’s understandable that many Israelis have demanded that their government do whatever it takes to root out Hamas and make sure such attacks never happen again. Moreover, Hamas’ military operations are deeply embedded within Gaza — and its leadership seems to intentionally hide among civilians, thereby endangering the very people they claim to represent.

Still, the world is watching closely as events in the region unfold, and any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs could ultimately backfire. Already, thousands of Palestinians have been killed in the bombing of Gaza, many of them children. Hundreds of thousands have been forced from their homes. The Israeli government’s decision to cut off food, water and electricity to a captive civilian population threatens not only to worsen a growing humanitarian crisis; it could further harden Palestinian attitudes for generations, erode global support for Israel, play into the hands of Israel’s enemies, and undermine long term efforts to achieve peace and stability in the region.

It’s therefore important that those of us supporting Israel in its time of need encourage a strategy that can incapacitate Hamas while minimizing further civilian casualties. "

...continued here:
 
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Always in His Presence

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Always in His Presence

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Why does Israel want them to move civilians out of the Northern part of Gaza?

Moving civilians out of Gaza City would help make it safer to eliminate tunnels, but such operations will be dangerous, Richemond-Barak said.​
The IDF can either render the tunnels temporarily unusable or destroy them. According to Richemond-Barak, bombing the underground passages is typically the most efficient way to eliminate them, but such strikes can impact civilians.​
Hamas has over 300 miles of tunnels under Palestinian neighborhoods. The tunnels is where they wage gorilla warfare. Israel has bunker busting tech, but it would devastate the civilian population - Hamas is preventing woman and children from leaving to protect their war machine. They have no regard for the lives of their own citizens.
 
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Vanellus

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There is no real state of Palestine to recognize.
Also there no real Palestine that is a state yet
This is very different from "No one has recognized a Palestinian state". If you're arguing there isn't a Palestinian state to recognize then saying "no one has recognized a Palestinian state" is pointless, and misleading of what you actually think. This is another example of you moving the goal posts. Using this kind of sophistry to try win petty debating points is inappropriate given the gravity of the situation.

The State of Palestine has been recognized by 139 of the 193 UN members and since 2012 has had a status of a non-member observer state in the United Nations.[38][39][40]

On 29 November 2012, in a 138–9 vote (with 41 abstentions and 5 absences),[62] the United Nations General Assembly passed resolution 67/19, upgrading Palestine from an "observer entity" to a "non-member observer state" within the United Nations System, which was described as recognition of the PLO's sovereignty.[39][40][63][64][65] Palestine's new status is equivalent to that of the Holy See.[66] The UN has permitted Palestine to title its representative office to the UN as "The Permanent Observer Mission of the State of Palestine to the United Nations",[67] and Palestine has instructed its diplomats to officially represent "The State of Palestine"—no longer the Palestinian National Authority
from State of Palestine - Wikipedia
 
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wing2000

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Hamas has over 300 miles of tunnels under Palestinian neighborhoods. The tunnels is where they wage gorilla warfare. Israel has bunker busting tech, but it would devastate the civilian population - Hamas is preventing woman and children from leaving to protect their war machine. They have no regard for the lives of their own citizens.

Source for statement Hamas is preveting women and children from leaving?
 
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expos4ever

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Yahweh Elohim Praise to Thy Name Always, from You All Life Flows.
Look upon Thy people Israel, and see what the pagans are doing to Thy people Israel Today! Take Action Thyself on behalf of Thy people , young and old, men and women, Take Action to Protect Thy people with Thy Outstretched Arm of Strength and Deliverance, to the Praise of Thy Name, For Thy Glory to Be Seen Now on earth and in the heavens above; Amen - Let it be so now.
No matter how honorable the intent behind this post is, and I do not deny the intent is indeed honorable, I politely suggest that theology is fundamentally wrong. Biblically, I believe it is quite clear that Israel's special status as the people of God came to an end at the cross.
 
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Vanellus

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I think the conspiracy theory section is that way --------->

But what if a far more powerful alien force were to invade the US (we know that it is where aliens always go). Would it be more "humane" for the alien force to act against the US in the way you advocate?
It's a hypothetical argument to illustrate a point. Arguing that total war is ok if you are always the one in a position to determine right and wrong and to wage total war on a much weaker country is a grotesquely wrong argument. Your answer shows you are either unable or unwilling to put yourself in the shoes of the weaker country.
 
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Valletta

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Israel said it had struck more than 400 targets in the past 24 hours, after hitting more than 320 a day earlier, in some of the most intense aerial attacks on Gaza in recent days. The Gaza Health Ministry, which is controlled by the armed group Hamas, said that it had recorded the highest single-day death toll of the war: at least 704 people killed in dozens of strikes on homes, a refugee camp and other places. It was not possible to independently verify the toll.

Even if the death toll is half what the Health Ministry claims, that is a terrible price to pay.
Israel understandably wants to reduce the risk to their soldiers by destroying as much of the Hamas military infrastructure as possible. But, in doing so, they are killing thousands of civilians, at least half of which are women and children. Israel's decision to write off the human toll as collateral damaga will have long term reprecussions.
The truth is that Israel told civilians to go south. Hamas encouraged civilians to stay around them so that the civilians would die in the bombing and they could put out the kind of propaganda in your post, that Israel will "right off the human toll" or some such similar sentiment. Remember too that a good percentage of these "civilians" support the extermination of Jews.
 
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Vanellus

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It depends, would they have ray guns they could shoot from space, like on Star Trek or only small hand held laser's, makes a difference you know.
This kind of stupid remark is inappropriate given the gravity of the situation and is a waste of space in this thread.
 
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Vanellus

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The truth is that Israel told civilians to go south. Hamas encouraged civilians to stay around them so that the civilians would die in the bombing and they could put out the kind of propaganda in your post, that Israel will "right off the human toll" or some such similar sentiment. Remember too that a good percentage of these "civilians" support the extermination of Jews.
Israel is bombing civilians in the south of Gaza

‘The strikes are everywhere’: Palestinians flee south in Gaza but cannot escape bombs
 
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Chesterton

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What do you think my position is exactly?
Your position is one of softness and weakness, when we don't have the luxury for that at this time. While Israel is already, to its disadvantage, doing all it can to minimize civilian casualties, you want them to even more fight with one arm behind its back.
I've already described the acts of Hamas horrific and described them as being evil and barbaric.
And Hamas has been targeting civilians with rockets every day since 10/7. Why aren't you protesting against that in this thread? Why the double standard? It makes you appear anti-Israel. Of course you have a right to your opinion, but if you are anti-Israel you should be honest and just say it.

Below is a post on Facebook I commented on 2019 where I talk about the conflict in Mindanao. You will notice the similarities to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Yes I certainly notice the similarities. I'm not going to address all of it, but I thought this was funny:

Islam predated Christianity by 200 years in the Philippines...

Judaism predated the birth of Mohammed by 2,000 years in Israel.

...countering violent extremism is incorporated into our ministry.
Countering violent extremism is part of my church's ministry, too. Here's a pic of my church: :)

1698169670711.png
 
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Always in His Presence

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Source for statement Hamas is preveting women and children from leaving?



While a humanitarian corridor has been opened to enable civilians to move out of the war-torn Gaza Strip into Egypt, the Hamas terrorists were actively preventing Palestinians from evacuating to the south in order to protect themselves, the Israel Defence forces stated on Sunday.​


Hamas tells Gaza residents not to leave their homes after IDF warns civilians to evacuate​

From CNN's Abeer Salman and Lucas Lilieholm​
Hamas on Friday told Palestinians living in Gaza not to leave their homes, according to a statement sent to media organizations.​
 
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wing2000

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While a humanitarian corridor has been opened to enable civilians to move out of the war-torn Gaza Strip into Egypt, the Hamas terrorists were actively preventing Palestinians from evacuating to the south in order to protect themselves, the Israel Defence forces stated on Sunday.​

Yes, I was aware of that reporting....to exit Gaza entirely.




Hamas tells Gaza residents not to leave their homes after IDF warns civilians to evacuate​

From CNN's Abeer Salman and Lucas Lilieholm​
Hamas on Friday told Palestinians living in Gaza not to leave their homes, according to a statement sent to media organizations.​

Right, but I have not seen reports Hamas was preventing people from moving to southern Gaza (which is what I though you were referring to in the original post).
 
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