Biden DOJ sues Elon Musk

[ThatRobGuy]

From the lawsuit:

So then why isn't this lawsuit being extended in order to make NASA change their rules?

Is it even remotely possible that SpaceX, in particular, being targeted is more rooted in some sort of a "male anatomy measuring contest" and less out out of actual concern for respect for refugees?

 

[Arcangl86]

So then why isn't this lawsuit being extended in order to make NASA change their rules?

Is it even remotely possible that SpaceX, in particular, being targeted is more rooted in some sort of a "male anatomy measuring contest" and less out out of actual concern for respect for refugees?

Because NASA's rules aren't based on the export control laws Space X is relying on, but rather federal law requiring US civil servants to be citizens.

 

[Gene2memE]

Is it even remotely possible that SpaceX, in particular, being targeted is more rooted in some sort of a "male anatomy measuring contest" and less out out of actual concern for respect for refugees?

Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No.

The lawsuit seems to have its origins in multiple discrimination complaints specifically made about SpaceX, dating from (at least) early 2018.

Furthermore, despite being notified that it was being investigated for policy violations in 2020, SpaceX retained policies that included blanket bans on hiring asylees or refugees. Even after it was informed that ITAR and EAR do not contain employment or hiring restrictions, SpaceX maintained its discriminatory practices until at least Nov-2022.

Whether that's deliberate or just a product of incompetence will be up to the courts to decide.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Because NASA's rules aren't based on the export control laws Space X is relying on, but rather federal law requiring US civil servants to be citizens.

So public sector refugee discrimination is okay, but private sector...not so much?

I notice that they don't seem to be going after Richard Branson for Virgin Galactic having similar requirements for certain positions.

On some of their job postings:
To conform to U.S. Government space technology export regulations, applicant must be a U.S. citizen

Is that because the current "in-power" party doesn't have any sort of beefs with Branson, as where many in the party do have a beef with Musk?

The lawsuit seems to have its origins in multiple discrimination complaints specifically made about SpaceX, dating from (at least) early 2018.

As it currently stands, there's a substantial EV push. Musk is currently cornering in the market on EV charging stations and has recently made deals with both Ford and GM for them to use his charging technology for their EVs...this presents a challenge for the current administration's priorities.

If what you're saying is true and this is an infraction that's been going on for nearly 6 years, possible that the timing is "a little more than random" that they started a crackdown on it a month after he starts putting them in a position to be heavily reliant on him to achieve their climate policy goals?

 

[Bradskii]

Is it even remotely possible that SpaceX, in particular, being targeted is more rooted in some sort of a "male anatomy measuring contest"...

That might be a possibility if it was Bezos' rocket.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Nope - it points out the absurdity of the lawsuits = unless the people illegally crossing are not woman and children, indigent poor looking for a better life.

Actually, it highlights you think immigrants are all destitute, uneducated brown people who have no value in a job market.

Granted, most of us see these posts and know that people aren’t ranting about Canadian immigrants, but it’s quite the thing to see somebody just come right out and show it, yep, that’s what they’re thinking.

 

[Arcangl86]

So public sector refugee discrimination is okay, but private sector...not so much?

Ok? Nope. Legal? Yes.

I notice that they don't seem to be going after Richard Branson for Virgin Galactic having similar requirements for certain positions.

On some of their job postings:
To conform to U.S. Government space technology export regulations, applicant must be a U.S. citizen

You've said it yourself. Certain and some. The difference seems to be that Virgin Galactic is applying it on a case by case basis, while Space X is applying it company wide, even for positions that wouldn't be subject to export regulations.

Is that because the current "in-power" party doesn't have any sort of beefs with Branson, as where many in the party do have a beef with Musk?

Not likely since the "in-power" party when this investigation started was the opposite one then is now.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

So, even a normal work visa isn't sufficient unless you get special permission from the Secretary of Defense or the Secretary of State. So, I want to be clear this is not out of some desire of SpaceX to just hire people with green cards.

A green card is not a "normal work visa". A green card conveys permanent residency: Green Card

 

[stevil]

We know this thread is just going to be more hyper partisan nonsense when it start's off "Biden's DOJ..."

It's a shame people can't be more civilised and try to talk about topics without dragging it into a swamp.

 

[Bradskii]

We know this thread is just going to be more hyper partisan nonsense when it start's off "Biden's DOJ..."

It's a shame people can't be more civilised and try to talk about topics without dragging it into a swamp.

They tend to go a little quite when it's pointed out that Trump was in the WH when this was kicked off.

 

[stevil]

They tend to go a little quite when it's pointed out that Trump was in the WH when this was kicked off.

Oh really? LOL.

So is this thread going to be renamed "Trump DOJ sues Elon Musk"?

 

[Pommer]

Oh really? LOL.

So is this thread going to be renamed "Trump DOJ sues Elon Musk"?

The “optimistic” emoji is too weak for this blackhole level of “good thought”.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Actually, it highlights you think immigrants are all destitute, uneducated brown people who have no value in a job market.

So, essentially, you're calling a specific poster a racist, even though he never said or suggested the things you're charging him of.

...You better chiggidy check yourself, before you wreck yourself! Because made-up stories are bad for your health.

 

[Pommer]

So, essentially, you're calling a specific poster a racist, even though he never said or suggested those things.

No, one has to read into it to get that.
He did strong imply that SpaceX shouldn’t have to hire “illegals”; which does not follow from the story but has to be an assumption based on his stereotypical views of “who is an immigrant”…which we can see based on the picture he posted.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

So, essentially, you're calling a specific poster a racist, even though he never said or suggested the things you're charging him of.

...You better chiggidy check yourself, before you wreck yourself! Because made-up stories are bad for your health.

You best read the thread again.

 

[wing2000]

We know this thread is just going to be more hyper partisan nonsense when it start's off "Biden's DOJ..."

....exactly. It's our DOJ.

 

[Landon Caeli]

You best read the thread again.

So you don't deny. Got it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

No, one has to read into it to get that.
He did strong imply that SpaceX shouldn’t have to hire “illegals”; which does not follow from the story but has to be an assumption based on his stereotypical views of “who is an immigrant”…which we can see based on the picture he posted.

A picture says a thousand words. I didn't see brown people in that picture. I saw some poverty, and I saw struggling facial expressions.

...But if someone sees "brown people" that's on them. And it's *wrong* to insinuate that's what others see.

 

[Pommer]

A picture says a thousand words. I didn't see brown people in that picture. I saw some poverty, and I saw struggling facial expressions.

...But if someone sees "brown people" that's on them. And it's *wrong* to insinuate that's what everyone ses.

I’m sure that there were at least some Indian immigrants who applied for work at SpaceX.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

A picture says a thousand words. I didn't see brown people in that picture. I saw some poverty, and I saw struggling facial expressions.

...But if someone sees "brown people" that's on them. And it's *wrong* to insinuate that's what others see.

Don't play coy Landon. It's not a good look.

The implication of the post was "these people can't be rocket engineers and scientists, and they're representative of all refugees and asylees in the US, therefore SpaceX was in the right." Whether or not the intent was explicitly racist, it's still dehumanizing and discriminatory on multiple levels. First of all, poverty and struggle don't prevent someone from being intelligent. A trained rocket scientist fleeing his country seeking asylum may look quite desperate and destitute at times, simply as a matter of circumstance. And I see many children in that image. Are you telling me that they would be incapable of growing up to become rocket scientists? Second, while Central and South Americans get all the press, we actually accept relatively few refugees from that region. Africa and the Middle East are the largest sources of refugees in the US, and China is the largest source of asylees (accounting for roughly a quarter of asylees from 2012-2021). So that image isn't really representative.