Why EO cannot attend heterodox church services?

[Justin-H.S.]

This past weekend there was a situation with in-law relatives that involved our daughter potentially attending a protestant church (covenant baptist?).
Our daughter was staying at the relatives for the week through Sunday, so naturally church attendance came up. We coordinated with a good friend of ours from that town who is Orthodox, to come pick her up to take her to my wife's old Orthodox parish.

Well, our sister-in-law (whom our daughter was staying the week with) protested that she could just take her to her (protestant) church. My wife informed her that we don't go to Protestant churches (I added that we can't even pray with them). She found it "very concerning" that we couldn't even go to a protestant church and accused EO of being a cult, etc.

At the time, I didn't know exactly why we couldn't attend hetero services, so I explained that it serves as a temptation for us to fall into pride by attending hetero services (because once you experience the Divine Liturgy, all other church services feel significantly lacking and less reverent). I explained using history of the church and how we don't even accept Protestant denominations as being "one of many expressions of christianity" and that EO is the church from the beginning and we never were a part of the Reformation, so their "invisible church" doctrine doesn't even apply to us, etc. She mentioned concern for pedocommunion and that she was worried about "wine" being given to infants, but thanks be to God we steered her away from further talk of the Holy Mysteries, whether we knew what we were doing or not. I later learned that we should try to prevent further blasphemies by the uninitiated by not talking about the Holy Mysteries with heterodox's. We didn't know that at the time, and thanks to God, He guided us to keep our explanations in the Church history realm.

I later read that the reason we can't attend hetero services or even pray with hetero's is because by doing so, we would tacitly be affirming their version of Christianity as "equal" to ours and this gives them a "good uneasiness."

Is there any other reason why we can't go to hetero churches?

 

[HTacianas]

This past weekend there was a situation with in-law relatives that involved our daughter potentially attending a protestant church (covenant baptist?).
Our daughter was staying at the relatives for the week through Sunday, so naturally church attendance came up. We coordinated with a good friend of ours from that town who is Orthodox, to come pick her up to take her to my wife's old Orthodox parish.

Well, our sister-in-law (whom our daughter was staying the week with) protested that she could just take her to her (protestant) church. My wife informed her that we don't go to Protestant churches (I added that we can't even pray with them). She found it "very concerning" that we couldn't even go to a protestant church and accused EO of being a cult, etc.

At the time, I didn't know exactly why we couldn't attend hetero services, so I explained that it serves as a temptation for us to fall into pride by attending hetero services (because once you experience the Divine Liturgy, all other church services feel significantly lacking and less reverent). I explained using history of the church and how we don't even accept Protestant denominations as being "one of many expressions of christianity" and that EO is the church from the beginning and we never were a part of the Reformation, so their "invisible church" doctrine doesn't even apply to us, etc. She mentioned concern for pedocommunion and that she was worried about "wine" being given to infants, but thanks be to God we steered her away from further talk of the Holy Mysteries, whether we knew what we were doing or not. I later learned that we should try to prevent further blasphemies by the uninitiated by not talking about the Holy Mysteries with heterodox's. We didn't know that at the time, and thanks to God, He guided us to keep our explanations in the Church history realm.

I later read that the reason we can't attend hetero services or even pray with hetero's is because by doing so, we would tacitly be affirming their version of Christianity as "equal" to ours and this gives them a "good uneasiness."

Is there any other reason why we can't go to hetero churches?

Gal 1:8 - But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I believe the saying among Protestants is "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials charity" ?

She stated that we believe in the same God, so we should be able to attend each others church. The problem is that we hold MANY things to be essential to our faith that Protestants don't, so we're not even unified in the essentials. Things like iconography, prayers for the dead, Theotokos, Church hierarchy, order of worship, lives of the saints, etc. The list goes on.

Now that Orthodoxy is getting more limelight in the West, we should learn how to navigate these sort of situations that the heterodox put us in instead of "just going along to get along" that previous generations of Orthodox practiced.

 

[HTacianas]

I believe the saying among Protestants is "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials charity" ?

She stated that we believe in the same God, so we should be able to attend each others church. The problem is that we hold MANY things to be essential to our faith that Protestants don't, so we're not even unified in the essentials. Things like iconography, prayers for the dead, Theotokos, Church hierarchy, order of worship, lives of the saints, etc. The list goes on.

Now that Orthodoxy is getting more limelight in the West, we should learn how to navigate these sort of situations that the heterodox put us in instead of "just going along to get along" that previous generations of Orthodox practiced.

Central to the Orthodox faith are the sacraments. Take baptism and the Eucharist for example. Those are essentials. Most Protestants do not share the essentials of the faith.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I believe the saying among Protestants is "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials charity" ?

there is no Biblical or historical basis for this. nowhere does the Scripture say anything about essential vs non-essential beliefs.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is there any other reason why we can't go to hetero churches?

it’s also out of respect for their theology and history.

 

[Dorothea]

I think also because we attend liturgy and most of our liturgy has a bunch of our theology and what we believe in it. Also, we receive His Body and Blood. So, it's basically as was said. We are in a different community of believers that has a creed and theology that is not the same as other churches, like Protestant (or Catholic) churches. It's not meant to say we're better. It's meant to say we can't fully participate in other communities' churches because we are not fellow believers of their mission statements and theology.

 

[rusmeister]

Still, a situation can arise where you find yourself having to physically attend such a service. Happened to me when I visited Croatia 5 years ago, and found myself taken with the group I was with to a Catholic service in Zagreb. I stood politely and respectfully in the back without participating. I was really surprised, in expecting an old Catholic church to have services a little more like ours, only to find how strongly they reminded me of my Baptist youth. The standing up and sitting down in pews, the singing of modernistic hymns, the way the priest conducted the service and gave the sermon - I was not expecting that.

 

[Dogheaded]

Still, a situation can arise where you find yourself having to physically attend such a service. Happened to me when I visited Croatia 5 years ago, and found myself taken with the group I was with to a Catholic service in Zagreb. I stood politely and respectfully in the back without participating. I was really surprised, in expecting an old Catholic church to have services a little more like ours, only to find how strongly they reminded me of my Baptist youth. The standing up and sitting down in pews, the singing of modernistic hymns, the way the priest conducted the service and gave the sermon - I was not expecting that.

I think that gets to the point. We can't see the service of another tradition as a 'replacement' for the Liturgy that week.

If it's not that, what is there to be afraid of? Observe in politeness and go your own way afterward. It's possible to learn without becoming prideful. Could such an experience also generate compassion for those who appear to desire Christ but obviously lack the fullness Orthodoxy can provide?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I stood politely and respectfully in the back without participating.

yep. this is exactly what to do if the service is unavoidable.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Thankfully our daughter was able to attend the liturgy this week instead of going to a Protestant church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

praise God!

 

[Light of the East]

I believe the saying among Protestants is "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials charity" ?

She stated that we believe in the same God, so we should be able to attend each others church. The problem is that we hold MANY things to be essential to our faith that Protestants don't, so we're not even unified in the essentials. Things like iconography, prayers for the dead, Theotokos, Church hierarchy, order of worship, lives of the saints, etc. The list goes on.

Now that Orthodoxy is getting more limelight in the West, we should learn how to navigate these sort of situations that the heterodox put us in instead of "just going along to get along" that previous generations of Orthodox practiced.

Well, technically speaking, the DON'T believe in the same God. They have made up a God and a salvation out of their own minds and promote that as if it is God's truth. The sad part is that they are the losers for this inasmuch as they will not have the challenge/blessing of the disciplines that are in Orthodoxy.

Example: when the Roman Catholic sex scandals hit some 20 years ago, everyone was focused on the RC priests. The abuse in the RC church only represented about 4% of all ordained clergy in that body. Yet at the same time, someone did some digging and found out that the rate of sexual abuse among Protestant pastors was around 30%.

Why?

No fasting, no prayers, no contact with the saints, no Eucharist, no Sacraments. It's like trying to run a marathon without the proper training and fuel for the body. It just doesn't work.

 

[Dewi Sant]

regrettably I know the Orthodox Church is not immune from priests, or even monks, from indulging in non-consensual sexual abuse.
The Orthodox Church is blessedly overlooked by the press and research bodies because of its [historically] small size in The West™.

There mercifully isn't such a culture of blame and moral superiority in Orthodoxy so such accounts do not receive the sensationalist attention that we get from when a Catholic priest or Protestant minister is found in such situations.
The individual whom I infer is from the outside a very holy man, a devout minister to his congregation, and a blessing to those living in poverty and the distress of homelessness...I think often of him as it seems the devil is attracted particularly to priests and clergy. Why attack the leaves when you can cut the plant at its roots?

(I am not looking for sympathy or anything of the sort, but this is from personal experience. Those who need to know, know.
The clergyperson has been relieved of their duties, and no noise was made. I post it here only because there is a certain anonymity and vagueness in location and personhood as to whom 'Dewi Sant' is and who they know on this site)

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Imagine going to church in the Ukraine now! The whole nation will have a non-canonical phony church. Now that is a problem!

 

[Prodigal7]

This past weekend there was a situation with in-law relatives that involved our daughter potentially attending a protestant church (covenant baptist?).
Our daughter was staying at the relatives for the week through Sunday, so naturally church attendance came up. We coordinated with a good friend of ours from that town who is Orthodox, to come pick her up to take her to my wife's old Orthodox parish.

Well, our sister-in-law (whom our daughter was staying the week with) protested that she could just take her to her (protestant) church. My wife informed her that we don't go to Protestant churches (I added that we can't even pray with them). She found it "very concerning" that we couldn't even go to a protestant church and accused EO of being a cult, etc.

At the time, I didn't know exactly why we couldn't attend hetero services, so I explained that it serves as a temptation for us to fall into pride by attending hetero services (because once you experience the Divine Liturgy, all other church services feel significantly lacking and less reverent). I explained using history of the church and how we don't even accept Protestant denominations as being "one of many expressions of christianity" and that EO is the church from the beginning and we never were a part of the Reformation, so their "invisible church" doctrine doesn't even apply to us, etc. She mentioned concern for pedocommunion and that she was worried about "wine" being given to infants, but thanks be to God we steered her away from further talk of the Holy Mysteries, whether we knew what we were doing or not. I later learned that we should try to prevent further blasphemies by the uninitiated by not talking about the Holy Mysteries with heterodox's. We didn't know that at the time, and thanks to God, He guided us to keep our explanations in the Church history realm.

I later read that the reason we can't attend hetero services or even pray with hetero's is because by doing so, we would tacitly be affirming their version of Christianity as "equal" to ours and this gives them a "good uneasiness."

Is there any other reason why we can't go to hetero churches?

I am fresh out of the Protestant side. I have been attending the Orthodox Church again now for 3 months. I am still working on my "lifetime confession". I will leave it to our priest of course for when he things I am ready for the Eucharist. My wife wants to become a catechumen so I might be waiting a while to be back in communion. Us coming in together would be special.

I think for the young the allure of "rock type" praise music, comfortable seating, and the modern accoutrements of most evangelical churches can be tempting. I wasn't plugged in well to Orthodoxy so when I left I really didn't know what I was leaving.

When I first came back to the Orthodox Church I started doing my own research. I found out the myriad of Protestant denominations really do all believe different things. It would be impossible for me to go back now because I don't believe what they believe anymore.

I am an infant in terms of Orthodoxy but I am a happy infant. The prayer rules, the reverential worship, and learning about the Fathers and Saints is doing wonders for my soul.

 

[Prodigal7]

Well, technically speaking, the DON'T believe in the same God. They have made up a God and a salvation out of their own minds and promote that as if it is God's truth. The sad part is that they are the losers for this inasmuch as they will not have the challenge/blessing of the disciplines that are in Orthodoxy.

Example: when the Roman Catholic sex scandals hit some 20 years ago, everyone was focused on the RC priests. The abuse in the RC church only represented about 4% of all ordained clergy in that body. Yet at the same time, someone did some digging and found out that the rate of sexual abuse among Protestant pastors was around 30%.

Why?

No fasting, no prayers, no contact with the saints, no Eucharist, no Sacraments. It's like trying to run a marathon without the proper training and fuel for the body. It just doesn't work.

Your last sentence about "no fasting, no contact with Saints, etc" describes where I was at before I came back to the Orthodox Church a few months ago.

I told my wife that it seemed like the "how to" part of the Bible was taken out. I didn't understand "how" to deepen my faith and get this elusive peace and serenity. I was relying on reading scripture alone. I love scripture but now I see that I need the prayer rules and other ancient disciplines.

I prayed off the top of my head for years. I am tired of my own ideas and am fully ready to try the ideas of the Saints and the other people who have come before me. It's been a great revelation.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My wife wants to become a catechumen

praise God

 

[Gregory Thompson]

there is no Biblical or historical basis for this. nowhere does the Scripture say anything about essential vs non-essential beliefs.

In case you were curious, this comes from a common protestant interpretation of Romans 14:1.

if read in the NIV, it will probably say it like it is usually taken.

 

[truefiction1]

I've been here in Reading, PA since Monday morning from 9 to 5 every day, in the Church of St. Benedict with a group of Roman Catholic (mostly) and some Episcopalians, receiving formation training in Catechesis of the Good Shepherd level 2. How lonely it is to be a lone Orthodox in a heterodox world. Their faith is deep, in some essential and important ways, and their devotion is great, yet they are different from us in that there are various untruths that come with the package of beliefs of their respective ecclesiastical bodies. This sometimes gets to me. Yet I can't talk about this with any of them. I get to go home on Saturday evening. I can't wait to see my people again.